muzzle loader bullet choice?

[demonjigger]

I was looking for some help in chosing a new mz bullet. I am currently shooting a Powerbelt 245gr bullet but i am finding it does not retain it's weight in the deer we are shooting. Nor is it passing through the deer in most cases. The bullets are plenty accurate with 100gr of powder, I have not tried 150gr of powder.

My friends also use this bullet. I would like to know if anyone else is having this problem and if there are any bullets out there that are easy to load and hold up.

The reason I am looking for a new bullet for next season is many of the deer we shot this year had no exit and the powerbelt 245 gr bullets would be in the animals looking like a penny, flat and light...

thanks for the help!

[Archerysniper]

My friend is using the t/c shockwaves 250 grain and had good results with them. I use hornaday 250 sts ballistic tips and shot three deer with them this year all pass throughs one was 15 yards one was 130 yards and the last one was 180 yards.

[lawdog]

I've heard that complaint frequently about the powerbelts. I am shooting the T/C 250 grain shockwaves and they shoot well out of my gun. I have not shot a deer since switching over to them though so I can't give you any info there...

[mskyfshntchr]

I use T/C's cheap shot sabots. Pure lead sabot in 240 grains. Both deer I shot this year, dropped on the spot. They do break up inside the deer if they hit bones, but they will still usually pass through. I like the break up in whitetails though--more destruction when the bullet hits the bone. The buck I shot this year was right in the front shoulder. Found the bullet on the hide on the other side. It held up really well considering all the bone it went through.

I have had no problems with any deer when using these bullets.

[PostFrontal]

I use the Powerbelt 270 Grain Platinum Tip, 150 grains pyrodex 50/50. Take a look at the ballistics. Got both deer I shot at the last 2 years (one at 80 yards) and a coyote. Both deer went about 30 yards with double lung shots and exit wounds, and coyote dropped in it's tracks.

When I'm at the range I shoot 7 times before cleaning and they still go down easy. Buddy uses sabots and they leave more junk in the barrel.

I would get a pack of those and the T/C shockwaves these guys are talking about and see which ones your gun likes better and go with that.

[Musky Buck]

I use the 370 grain maxi-balls with a load of blackpowder and a cap. Dead on at a 100 and really throttles them when you hit em. I know pyrodex is what most are using but the original black powder is fun to shoot and stinks like nasty after you shoot.

[Gordie]

Ive shot deer with hornadys xtp 240 grain.powerbelts 240 and 350 grain,shock waves 240 grain and all of these have knocked them down and they all have had pass thru. I think the best was the 350 gr powerbelt most accurate and hardest hitting.

I do not shoot more than 100 grains pyrodex pellets and have not had a problem. an old timer that shot a lot of black powder told me that more powder isnt always better cause you will still get the same results with a lesser load and just more smoke. what he meant was that it only takes a certain amount of powder to get the job done the reat is just burned up in the barrel.

[Musky Buck]

Right on elwood, I agree, too much powder isn't doing much but making you clean your gun a shot or two sooner.

[PostFrontal]

Love the old timer's and he is probably right if he isn't shooting a 209 primer.

Example: with the Powerbelt 270 grain platinum tip:

100 gr pyro Vel: 1790 Ft lbs: 1921 100yd 3.24

150 gr pyro Vel: 2130 Ft lbs: 2721 100yd 2.12

There is an obvious significant difference there. The post was about wanting pass throughs.

Not saying you guys are doing it wrong. Just what the ballistics show.

[lungdeflator]

anybody build their own sabots? getting reloading components and putting them together for a cheaper bullet?

[Archerysniper]

Ask vister he had posted about doing that earlyer this season.

[Gordie]

anybody build their own sabots? getting reloading components and putting them together for a cheaper bullet?

thatrs what I did for the first 4-5 yeatrs I hunted with a smoke pole was useing 44 cal pistol bullets 240 gr xtp hornadys and green sabots.

It was a great system but wanted to do away with the components so I wnt to the power belts and then back to the sabots only because I got them on sale like a 1/3rd of the price and they shot great as well and those were the shaockwaves after those are gone I will probally go back to the powerbelts

[wplatehunter]

I shoot powerbelt 295 grain, and have had good luck with them. The deer never seem to move, but more than a few yards.

[vister]

Originally Posted By: lungdeflator

anybody build their own sabots? getting reloading components and putting them together for a cheaper bullet?

thatrs what I did for the first 4-5 yeatrs I hunted with a smoke pole was useing 44 cal pistol bullets 240 gr xtp hornadys and green sabots.

It was a great system but wanted to do away with the components so I wnt to the power belts and then back to the sabots only because I got them on sale like a 1/3rd of the price and they shot great as well and those were the shaockwaves after those are gone I will probally go back to the powerbelts

thats what i do, is "build" my own. i buy hornady 44 mag 240 grain HP XTP handgun reloads from a reloading center such as cabelas. like 22 bucks for a 100 last i bought them. then i buy MMP .429-.430 green sabots. they are 8 bucks for 50. not only is it WAY cheaper than ANY kind of muzzy ammo out there, it shoots VERY accurate. heck, for 38 bucks you get 100 shots. its worth a try!

ive never had a lick of luck with powerbelts holding together upon impact. seems like the copper completely seperates from the bullet.

other than tc shockwaves being 10 grains heavier, this load i described is identical.

[WaveWacker]

Another vote for TC shockwaves.

[Bowfin]

I started a few years ago with T/C Shockwaves but went to Powerbelts because the Shockwaves were hard to load. Shot a couple deer with Powerbelts with no pass throughs. I didn't like the accuracy of the Powerbelts either. This year I switched to T/C Superglide sabots - lot easier to load than the Shockwaves. I want to try Hornady's new concave bullet (FTP or FXP?)which is the Hornady alternative to Powerbelts.

[sausageman]

If you want pass thru's every time shoot Barnes MZ. Super deadly...100% weight retention.

The knock on Powerbelts is that they blow up on impact. On occasion you will get a pass thru. They work great if you don't hit bone...but are terrible if you hit the shoulder.

This is what a Barnes entry and exit hole after breaking a shoulder bone.

Entrance hole

Exit hole after breaking shoulder.

[Mcfin]

I shoot powerbelts. I like their accuracy and ease of loading. However, I shot a deer at about 40 yards and there was no exit.It killed instantly but it really surprised me because I always shoot 150 Grns. powder.

[sausageman]

Mcfin

The truth is, the faster you push the powerbelt, the less likely you will get a pass thru. The reason for this is the powerbelt is a relatively fragile bullet and explodes upon impact in many cases. This rapid expansion can cause very quick kills if the bullet penetrates enough to make it into the body cavity. If you hit bone...well then that may be another story.

I prefer a well constructed bullet that I know will penetrate deeply but stays together. I shot many many deer with the all copper bullet and have had pass thru's on everyone.

The all copper Barnes MZ bullet is very accurate in my muzzleloaders.

Here are some of my 100 yards groups shot with the Barnes bullets out of my Knight LRH.

[Mcfin]

Thanks for the tip sausageman. I just might try the MZ next season.

[Bowfin]

Sausageman,

How are the copper Barnes MZ to load? Are they tough to push down the barrel and seat after a couple shots?

[sausageman]

Bowfin

Loading difficulty is dependent on a couple things. Bullet/sabot combo in relationship with your barrel and what powder you are using. T/C (tight).....Knight(larger)

First thing is first. You must use the right sabot with your bullet. There are HPH-12 sabots (thicker pedals), HPH-24 (thinner pedals), and a crushed rib type sabot from harvester. The EZ load types sabots don't have some special lub or anything just thinner petals. That's it.

Based on your first post I would say start with the EZ load sabot or crushed rib type sabot.

Second if you use BP and reload the second shot without swabbing, you may have problems. Sometimes if you are using Triple 7 powder, you may have to contend with the "crud" ring and loading the second shot may be difficult. I use Blackhorn and Triple 7 powders. Of the two, Blackhorn requires the least amount of cleaning if any. I have shot up to 25 times without running a patch through the barrel. When shooting Triple 7, sometimes primers have an effect on how much of a crud ring is left in the barrel.

That being said, I like a very tight fit and could give one wit on how hard it is to load the second shot. I'm only concerned with my first shot. All of my MZ's are the most accurate with tight fitting sabots.

IMHO Powerbelts are popular because they are easy to load and available everywhere. No sabot...just pull out your rod and push it down the barrel. The downside is that the terminal performance can be poor. (Unless you hit them perfect) Also you can generally squeeze out much better accurcy with the right sabot and bullet combo. I maybe wrong, but shockwaves are made for the tight fitting bores such as the T/C muzzys.

Here is a picture of my 0.52 cal 350 grain MZ bullets.

In 50 cal bullets, the EZ load sabots are orange in color.

The main thing is you have to bite the bullet and try it. Even among my Knight ML's, they is barrel diameter differences. I own an Elite which has a loose bore and two LRH that have very tight bores.

[Crow Hunter]

I started shooting Hornady .44 hp-xtp with a green mmp sabot last fall, and really like the accuracy. However they are pretty hard to load in my gun... has anyone tried the Harvester crush rib sabot with this bullet? Reviews seem to indicate an improvement in loading ease with no loss in accuracy. Thanks for any replies. CH

[Bowfin]

Sausageman,

I think I'll try the Barnes EZ load sabots. Do you know any stores which carry these?

[sausageman]

Bowfin

I have some EZ load sabots and Barnes 250 and 300 MZ bullets. Maybe I can send you a few to try. I tried PMing you but it said you were over the limit or something like that.

Or you can order them from Gregerson's in Baldwin Wisconsin.

Let me know.