Patterns

[Shoot2Kill]

BB - I hope you don't mind me quoting you here but I found this to be interesting, I've heard people talking about patterns, but the way you put it just made me want to ask the question.

I think the biggest triumph for us this season came when we actually figured out a pattern and knew days/nights when/where to fish/not to fish. We put a lot of fish in the boat after we figured that out,

Being new to these fish last summer, can you elaborate on the type of patterns you're talking about? If it's specific and not info you'd like to give up I understand, but if you can is it a pattern like structure vs time of day/night, water temps vs day/night/structure, lure presentation vs depth and a mix of day/night/structure, moon phase vs any of the above...etc. Or is it that your pattern is that you're a kick a$$ muskie fisherman and that is all there is to it?

Maybe you others can chime in and since winter is officially here it will help us pass this painful time of frozen water.

[50inchpig]

IMO the term 'pattern' might be a bit overused in our sport which offers far too little feedback at times but one pattern I did notice last summer was a nightly movement of fish, maybe I should say activity, from the deep edge to the shallows and back out again. Usually occured in the first few hours after midnight and was dependable for a pretty good stretch.

One that was pretty much absent was the shallow movement in the early fall, a temperature period we pretty much skipped over this year. Although we caught fish shallow all year long they were never up en masse during the day like they've been in years past. Had a few days/nights we thought it was really going to start popping but it never did.

[dudeness]

I think when musky fishing, a "pattern" might mean seeing more than one fish doing the same thing. Sounds funny but there is always a smaller sampling size when fishin musky. Usually this means finding them in weeds vs. rock vs. sand vs. open water etc... A lot of times when I think I have a pattern figured out it's because I have tried two or three of the previously mentioned areas and seen fish on only one. Unfortunately these patterns don't always yield a ton of fish but will dictate how and where you fish. It can also be time of day. Not quite like crappie fishing, where sometimes you can set your watch to it.

As far as knowing when not to fish, I havent figured that one out yet... Extreme weather excluded.

[muskydeceiver]

Dude....in all honesty I don't think these fish can be patterned like walleye or bass. I really think they tend to do what they want, when they want.

With that said here are a few things I have learned this year. There is a really good DCG bite on a lake that usually lasts from late July to early August. "Best times" are around the new moon from last light to a couple hours after sunset. Chart/black for the first couple hours and pink/pink after that. Certain breaks were better than others.

Same lake late in the year lights up for sucker fishing. Certain breaks where there are green weeds still around seem to be best. As we got closer to Cisco spawn we started finding schools of Muskies in areas where the Ciscos should be gathering. Lots of activity in one area....it was awesome.

After I go through that I think these same things happen on a lot of lakes. As temps have peaked in the summer and start cooling I think that hot DCG bite happens all over the upper midwest, same with the sucker thing.

In summary.....pay attention to what is going on, but don't be afraid to try something new if the fish aren't showing up.

[dudeness]

I guess we all might consider different things to be patterns. I usually find that awhen I'm keyed in on a "pattern" it usually is effective until the weather changes. If you have unstable weather the fish will be more scattered and unpredictable.

I would say location, style of bait, and time of day would all constitute a pattern in there own right. They are not at all like walleye or bass. Like I said if I catch two fish in similar spots on the same bait. I feel that I have found a pattern.

[mainbutter]

Every single one of my muskies that I got a strike out of was hooked on a different lure.

For me, the pattern was that I needed to keep changing things up!

[bronzeback]

Location, style of bait, and time of day, like dudeness said, and also cloud cover (or lack there of) played a very big role in the pattern I was mentioning.

We fished open water with the right bait at the right time during the right conditions often enough to put a lot of nice fish in the boat. When something works one time, go out an try to reproduce it when the conditions are almost the same and see if you can gain more knowledge by doing that. I was lucky enough to have a LOT of time to fish this season, so I tried everything until something clicked. Having all this time out meant lots of time spent not catching fish, but after figuring things out, the fishless days were easy to forget.

[bronzeback]

also, I don't remember the number exactly but we caught over 50% of our fish on one bait. Literally one bait, one color. Color matters whether you like it or not, even at night.

[Scottie Thomas]

Winter sucks huh, already have a little bit of cabin fever.

I think everyone has their opinion, whether it be right or wrong its opinion... I'll share mine.

I think muskies can be patterned to a point; maybe it's more difficult/tedious to so since their are lower populations of them in lakes. To pattern them the group of guys I fish with does 'sampling'. Fish until you find something that works. For example: Fish a shallow weedbed, hit the rocks, hit different deeper weeds, fish wind, etc. Fish with different baits on the same spot. If you move fish go back to them, if you don't get those fish eat and are only getting follows, use a bait that will make them commit. When you find a weedbed that is kicking out fish go back to it with baits you are confident you can make them eat. Fishermen can figure the fish out with some time and thinking.

What if you catch fish 2 nights in a row between 10:15 and 10:45? Where you going to fish the third night? Same spot I would assume... that's a pattern in my opinion. Sure patterns change but if you can get on a pattern when it starts you should be able to reap the benefits until it changes, then you go back to work and try to figure it out.

[JRedig]

I think there is a very good reason BB got into a pattern like that this year, haven't heard it mentioned yet.

And in regards to a hot DCG bite relating to temps peaking then falling, I've found that temperature is the LAST thing that makes or doesn't make them eat a blade...

Patterns certainly apply to muskie fishing, it's keying in on them that is so difficult. Variable weather makes it harder and easier depending on the cues you're looking at. The last two years have been made up (not entirely though) of short feeding windows, it's key to pay attention for when those are and capitalizing on the data you can acquire during them.

With the network I had going this year, I took away that patterns don't mean the same thing in muskie fishing but they do exist. The primary pattern for our group ended up being a lure for the most part and how it was presented and modified. Color played no role what so ever. A couple hundred fish showed us that within a fairly small group of guys.

#1 rule in muskie fishing and patterns...there are no rules...that was proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

[MikeEiden]

I agree with most of JRedig comments. I believe BB was able to find some patterns because he was willing to put in a lot of time on the water. Most people are weekend warriors or less so when they do hit the lake they are starting from scratch each time. Throw in consistant unstable weather patterns and that can cause most anglers problems.

My opinion on color is that it is the least thing I'm concerned with right away. I look at lure running depth, speed/or change in speed, size and then color. I think fish showing up right after a color change is most likely coincidence. There could be two people working the same bait in a boat but variations in lure speed, casting angles, twitches/pauses, etc makes more of a difference than color. There are many times I will be working a bait and I come up with small pieces of cabbage on the lure 3 out of 5 casts while my boat partner comes up clean every time and all the while I'm getting action and they are not seeing a thing. The other guy could be working a bait faster keeping it up higher or short casting/different angles not allowing him to reach the same depths/areas. Might seem like small differences but they can add up.

Basically like JRedig said... don't get to hung up on what was working last year, month, or week. If its not working change things up. Doesn't always have to be big drastic changes either.

[RK]

Hiya -

There are times when muskies are as patternable as bass. Yes, the sample size is certainly smaller, but there's still no question in my mind that you can establish daily patterns, and that sometimes those patterns hold up for a considerable amount of time. Sometimes the same patterns - with an incredible degree of repeatability - can persist for years on some bodies of water. Patterns are more likely to hold up during periods of the season where overall seasonal patterns are more stable, or when seasonal fish movements are more predictable. So, summer peak through early fall, late fall post-turnover, and sometimes in early spring. During transition periods like post spawn/early summer, and early fall/turnover, patterns that do get established fall apart pretty quickly just because the whole system - muskies, baitfish, water temp and clarity - is in transition.

If you relate it to the bass world, muskie fishermen spend a lot of their time doing what bass guys would call 'junk fishing' - throwing the kitchen sink at them and hoping for the best. That's often necessary with low-incidence species like muskies. But I think too many muskie fishermen accept the necessity of junk fishing too readily. You end up focusing too much on hot lures or following conventional wisdom too much of the time rather than really trying to figure out what's happening with the fish. Or, you focus on 'spots' rather than thinking about why a particular kind of spot is holding fish.

Along with being willing to recognize patterns of behavior, is realizing that at any given time, there might be multiple patterns at work in the same body of water. It's never the case that all fish are doing the same thing - except MAYBE a brief window during spawning, and I'm not even sure about that. Fish using different combinations of cover, forage, etc., will respond differently under different conditions. Weather, water conditions, pressure, etc., all affect different segments of the population in different ways. Weather that might send deep weedline fish into a total funk may send open water or slop fish on the bite.

I think the keys to being able to put patterns together when it comes to muskies is to be very open-minded, and very observant. Don't treat contacting fish (or not) as random incidents. You aren't always (more correct to say you won't ever) be able to figure out exactly why fish are doing something, but you can certainly make educated guesses and try to build on the information you have. What lure they responded to is probably the least important factor. What the lure is doing and where it's doing it is likely far more important (Mike Eiden makes some great points on that subject above).

One way to approach this is what my friend Jack Burns calls 'pattern sampling.' He'll start each day by fishing several different kinds of spots. A weed point, a rock point, a shallow bay, a deep edge, a thick weedbed... If he makes contact at one type, he'll go try a couple similar kinds of spots, and see if there's a pattern. If not, the process starts over. Sometimes there isn't a definite pattern - at least not one that you can identify - and you're back to junk fishing. That's how it is sometimes.

Bottom line for me is I'm always looking for a pattern when I'm muskie fishing.

If you ever want to see some REALLY in-depth thoughts on pattern fishing, go find some of the stuff Rick Clunn has written over the years. He's talking about bass, obviously, but much of it applies to any species of fish.

cheers,

Rob Kimm

[Shoot2Kill]

Great stuff here...nice replies guys. Very good info for sure.

I guess what I take away from this is something I knew all along that will help me to identify a pattern or two....quit my job and just fish.

Any more? What else can we talk about here....we have just short of 6 months to go. haha. Dang I can't even fish for them now and I'm addicted.

Okay...here is a topic...other than reading a dozen different muskie sites all winter, what do you guys do that is muskie related during the winter? The buddy that got me hooked on this said to try and buy 2 baits every week or so all winter/spring...that will help pass the time because you have new toys to play with over the week before you get your next two. haha.

[Shawn Kellett]

One huge change that I've seen in the metro is the duration of the patterns. 10 years ago you could go a week or 3 on the same pattern. Anymore you're lucky to have it for a few days unless you're doing something out of the box. I remember one a year ago where we (small group of fishermen) got on a good "pattern" and had it for 2 weeks. At that time someone mentioned it on the internet and by the end of that weekend it was for all practical purposes over.

The new key to fishing muskies it to not only be keyed in on what the fish are doing, but what is everyone else doing? This can be the hardest part since we all love to fish our memories instead of what's actually happening (guilty).

[scsavre]

Here is my .02 cents.

I agree with a lot of what has been said here. I will just share a little of what worked for me this year. You can decide if its a pattern.

I am a weekend warrior, who luckly could get to my lake by thursday a few times this year.

I found fishing very predictable to at least find fish this year. I also did very good at putting fish in the net. ON my lake i have my go to spots (as im sure many of you do)the only diference this year was, that i payed enough attention to know when i needed to be on each spot to not only see a fish, but have a chance at boating one.

For example, one of my go to spots. It got to the point where i knew i needed to be on a specific spot (large deep, structure) no earlier than 830am and no later than 10:30 am, and again the last half hour of daylight. Thats easy enough, obvious feeding windows. But if you had a dreaded east wind, there was absolutely no doubt i would get action/not follows. I put 8 fish over 40" in this exact window and wind in the boat. Overcast, moon etc, meant nothing. These variables just moved fish from a certain spot on spot, to maybe the other side of said spot.

Another go to spot was very similar in structure, but less strict on where the wind came from. The biggest keys to this spot was a change of any sort. Wind, rain, barometer. If there was a change, there was always multiple fish on this spot. And you were guaranteed an active follow/fish. If the weather was stable you would just have to settle for lazy follows. Dudeness can attest to this spot, as he boated a 45lb fish there this year. There was no doubt as to if we were going to boat one in the time frame we were out there.

So i dont know if it was a pattern or just 2 really good spots.

Besides those spots, is where i really start to go by gut feelings, or I guess you can say patterns. If certain variables presented themselves, i know i need to be on this part of this spot at this time. ON my lake which i know very well, I no longer put in the full days if i dont need to. I know when i have a chance at catching fish. I really treat it just like bass fishing. I dont have to throw over dead water anymore. If there is a strong west wind on a cloudy day, I have 2 rock piles that i know there will be hot fish on.

I think it was redig, who said water/air temp is last for importance, i agree, i pay no attention to temp, (unless a huge swing obviously). Another thing, there is never only one way to boat fish, many times i get fish in the same day that are on spots with no relation to other successful spots.

What i would really concentrate on is learning your spots, learning the spots near your spots, and why are fish on them? And what time of year they are on them. Fish are never far from there spots. I know i see the same fish on a secondary spot that is likely not going to hit, but then he moves 40 yards to his feeding zone, and thats where i go.

Patterns, or habits or just good spots, up to you.

Get on the water, put time in, and take note. It doesnt happen over night, but there is always a way to get action. Find a few baits you have confidence in, no need to switch baits every 10 casts. I threw a total of 3-4 baits all year. Learn how to read the water and fish, then switch a color or baits if you think you need.

Dont worry about what your doing, pay attention to what the fish is doing.

I cant do this typing stuff, my brain doesnt wait for my fingers and i forget half my points.

[MikeEiden]

This thread has really took off and great info. I guess I'll throw another thought out there that seems to tie it together for me.

As mentioned being observant is important especially when a fish shows itself or you get a hook up. But here's the catch. You have to know exactly where your boat is in order to extract any information. I know you've all heard it before but boat position and knowing exactly where you are on the structure (so you know where your lures are landing) is the foundation to gathering information. It drives me nuts when my electronics screw up from time to time (gps/map chip/sonar) and I begin guessing where I am. This can be particularly difficult on open water submerged structure. So when a fish shows up I really didn't gain much information in these situations.

Spend some time on a body of water and learn some of the structures and details so you know what's there. And keep track of where you are each time out.

[50inchpig]

The most consistent pattern since Dec 2nd or so is me sitting at work thinking about supermodels, boatside headshakes and how much winter sucks.

[Shoot2Kill]

The most consistent pattern since Dec 2nd or so is me sitting at work thinking about supermodels, boatside headshakes and how much winter sucks.

I second that. I really hate these -30 degree windchill mornings.

[JRedig]

While I agree that I'd rather be fishing...my hand/arm still gets numb while sleeping at night...although not so much to wake me up anymore, can't say that's a bad thing...that and regular sleep, home before 11pm every night doesn't suck either!

[50inchpig]

Mrs. Redig, Please don't post under Jeff's log-in, it's very confusing to all of us. I'm sure he'll be happy to help you create an account if you want. He's probably not going to be too happy when he reads that!

[Zelmsdawg]

haha...funny

Zelmsdawg

[JRedig]

Mrs. Redig, Please don't post under Jeff's log-in, it's very confusing to all of us. I'm sure he'll be happy to help you create an account if you want. He's probably not going to be too happy when he reads that!

[propster]

LMAO!

[HugoBox]

Jeff, was that you I saw standing on the ice last night making big "8's" in the snow on WB?

As far as patterns go, from my personal experience I feel like I can catch fish just fine when they are eating (probably everyone else is catching some fish too). But when they aren't eating or moving the faster I can eliminate what doesn't work the better chance I have at finding something that does. I guess that would be the oppostie of a pattern but I think you get my point.

To RK's point, the sampling is relatively low, but how many times have you been out bass fishing caught some fish but then moved on to another spot and changed lures? I bet that same approach isn't taken for muskies. You catch a fish and then try to fisgure out why it was there, what triggered the bite, whether or not there's "room" for more fish to be there, where else on the lake are there similar types of spots, and finally you consider if you should change your boat partner's lure to match the one that was just eaten. If any of that adds up to more fish then you're probably onto a pattern, if not then you can second guess yourself and wish you would have "junk" fished (or as Cjac puts it, "Go out and cast like a donkey."

[Musky Buck]

Agree with RK and that first paragraph especially. For me I worry not about a pattern, just give me water temp and localized weather conditions and if I feel it's a multiple fish kind of day and I'm going I'll then check the tables and moon charts and I'm off. If we get long periods of similar weather/heat etc. then it's good to have a pattern, trouble is I can't spend enough time on the water to know when the bite is. 1 year it was 3 oclock for weeks on end, it was bizarre, but it was what it was and we really tatooed them, others would start showing up after work waiting for prime time well prime time was basically done although I'm sure some were fooled at dusk. Time on the H2O.