9mm HANDGUNS

[Svinekotelett]

Are 9mm handguns really legal for deer hunting now? Is there a clip restriction? where can i find this in the regs? Dont want to sound like a skeptic or start a arguement, just find this really hard to beleave.

[Dave S]

lcornice answered your question about the legality of the 9mm in the other thread.

You could always call the DNR with your question, but they've already answered. Hint Hint

[BobT]

As I stated in another thread. Legal and ethical are two different things and legal does NOT imply ethical.

[Svinekotelett]

dude i spent 3 hours trying to contact the dnr. Thats the sadest part about it You have to ask questions on a forum but yet u cant contact the stinkin dnr. Another question i have does this apply to semi autos? .38 special? I would never hunt with any handgun, sw 500 or other, seeing as i have a hard enough time with the bow, shotguns and riffles. Im just baffeled by this!!! By the way whos lcornice to say!

[Svinekotelett]

By the way my question was where can i find definitive proof of this? Meaning from the FEDS, Not some guy on a forum. As i said before its not that i dont beleave anyone, I just couldent find anything other then RIFFLE regulations in the book or on the dnr HSOforum!! For those who understand the question THANKS!!

[fr0sty]

I have emailed the dnr several times and was answered back the same day.

[BobT]

By the way my question was where can i find definitive proof of this? Meaning from the FEDS, Not some guy on a forum. As i said before its not that i dont beleave anyone, I just couldent find anything other then RIFFLE regulations in the book or on the dnr HSOforum!! For those who understand the question THANKS!!

Contact your state legislator. They are the ones that pass the laws maybe their opinion will be more to your liking.

[picksbigwagon]

Svine, first of all the handbook language was changed last year by the Minnesota house of rep's and the Minnesota state senate. They made the changes and DNR gets to enforce them.

here it is on page 57 of the hunting regulations, copied word for word:

LEGAL FIREARMS FOR BIG GAME

• It is at least .220 caliber and has center fire ignition;

• It is loaded only with single projectile ammunition;

• The projectile used has a soft point or is an expanding bullet type;*

• The muzzleloader (long gun or handgun) used cannot be loaded at

the breech (muzzleloading revolvers are not legal for taking big game);

• The smooth-bore muzzleloader used is at least .45 caliber and

• The rifled muzzleloader used is at least .40 caliber;

• Muzzleloaders with scopes are legal during the regular firearms deer

seasons, but are not allowed during the muzzleloader season except by

special permit for hunters with a medically certified visual impairment.

Applications are available from the DNR Info Center, see page 127.

Other Restrictions

• No person may discharge a firearm or an arrow from a bow on,

over, across, or within the right-of-way of an improved public

highway (including but not limited to federal, state, county, and

township roadways) at a big game animal or a decoy of a big game

animal that has been set out by a licensed peace officer.

• A person may not use a dog or horse to take big game.

Now it doesn't list each individual center fire cartridge made because that list would take for ever to compile. Obviously the state decided that CENTER FIRE CARTRIDGES that are AT LEAST .220 in caliber are now legal. Is a 9mm handgun cartridge a center fire cartridge? YES Is it bigger than .220 in Caliber? YES! therefore it is legal cartridge for deer hunting in MN during the firearm season.

The FEDS (I am assuming you mean Federal Govt. since that is only thing I know that is referred to as FEDS) have no control on our big game hunting so there will be nothing from them as it pertains to your question.

Lcornice is Lou Cornicelli, the head of the Deer and Big Game branch of the Minnesota DNR. He is frequent poster and will answer questions when they pop up. If you can't accept that, then call the DNR, ask to speak with Lou, and then ask him yourself. It's not like it is his busy time of the year.

Does this clarify your question, if it doesn't what else do you need to know? If you don't like this rule from the MN legislators, contact your legislator and let them know. Write them a letter, email them and call them too. There is a good chance they are up for election soon too so you can ask them face to face as well.

[BobT]

You're one step ahead of me. I just copied the text and was about to paste it. The thing to keep in mind is that the wording in the handbook does not distinguish whether the cartridge had to be discharged from a long rifle or pistol. It doesn't distinguish between rifle cartridges or pistol cartridges either. Therefore, it doesn't matter.

Just to try and help out I also went to the state legislature's HSOforum of the Minnesota Office of the Revisor of Statutes and was unable to find the exact statute that defines legal firearms for deer. I'll have to keep looking.

[Svinekotelett]

They used to list every center fire cartridge made (the most popular) a couple years ago!! Any way PICKS I missed an important part of what you just posted, (Long gun or handgun). The first time i read it i missed that quote and saw own riffle regs. Thanks a lot you have helped me more then once. Anyway my 20 gauge is the least amount of fire power i will use i just like to keep up on the laws and what not. And thanks BobT, I thought this was a dnr law change but come to think of it this was a state legislature thing. I wish the dnr had more authority though, another bad change by state legislature, but thats just my opinion.

[picksbigwagon]

Bob, I was researching and cutting and pasting while you made your response. Who ever changed the wording got rid of the designation of pistol or rifle and went to a center fire cartridge designation. I thought it clarified the what is a legal cartridge for big game hunting, but I guess I was wrong and I am sure the DNR feels the same way. Maybe it will be changed again this year since we don't have many other pressing issues in MN right now

[BobT]

The DNR doesn't make any of the laws. They are the enforcement agency and that's it. Not any different that your local police. They don't make any laws either, they only enforce the laws as they interpret them. After that, it is up to the courts to make the final interpretation of the laws.

[picksbigwagon]

yep

[MinDak Hunter]

97B.031 USE AND POSSESSION OF FIREARMS.

Subdivision 1.Firearms and ammunition that may be used to take big game.A person may take big game with a firearm only if:

(1) the rifle, shotgun, and handgun used is a caliber of at least .22 inches and with centerfire ignition;

(2) the firearm is loaded only with single projectile ammunition;

(3) a projectile used is a caliber of at least .22 inches and has a soft point or is an expanding bullet type;

(4) the muzzleloader used is incapable of being loaded at the breech;

(5) the smooth-bore muzzleloader used is a caliber of at least .45 inches; and

(6) the rifled muzzleloader used is a caliber of at least .40 inches.

Subd. 2.Handguns for small game.A person may take small game with a handgun of any caliber in a manner prescribed by the commissioner.

Subd. 3.Firearms larger than ten gauge prohibited.A person may not use a firearm with a bore larger than a ten gauge to take a protected wild animal.

Subd. 4.Silencers prohibited.Except as provided in section 609.66, subdivision 1h, a person may not own or possess a silencer for a firearm or a firearm equipped to have a silencer attached.

Subd. 5.Scopes; visually impaired hunters.(a) Notwithstanding any other law to the contrary, the commissioner may issue a special permit, without a fee, to use a muzzleloader with a scope to take deer during the muzzleloader season to a person who obtains the required licenses and who has a visual impairment. The scope may not have magnification capabilities.

( The visual impairment must be to the extent that the applicant is unable to identify targets and the rifle sights at the same time without a scope. The visual impairment and specific conditions must be established by medical evidence verified in writing by a licensed physician, ophthalmologist, or optometrist. The commissioner may request additional information from the physician if needed to verify the applicant's eligibility for the permit.

© A permit issued under this subdivision may be valid for up to five years, based on the permanence of the visual impairment as determined by the licensed physician, ophthalmologist, or optometrist.

(d) The permit must be in the immediate possession of the permittee when hunting under the special permit.

(e) The commissioner may deny, modify, suspend, or revoke a permit issued under this subdivision for cause, including a violation of the game and fish laws or rules.

(f) A person who knowingly makes a false application or assists another in making a false application for a permit under this subdivision is guilty of a misdemeanor. A physician, ophthalmologist, or optometrist who fraudulently certifies to the commissioner that a person is visually impaired as described in this subdivision is guilty of a misdemeanor.

[MinDak Hunter]

In the upper left hand corner of the deer area map (backside) it also states: "In the southern and western portion of the state shown on the map below, the only legal firearms for deer are shotguns using rifled slugs, muzzleloaders, and handguns legal for big game"

You can use ANY legal caliber in a handgun in the shotgun zone.

[Svinekotelett]

I dont this is getting more fowled up as we go. ill just keep trying to get a hold of the dnr and ask them even though im not sure they will know....

[bobbymalone]

Why are the regulations so difficult for some of you guys to interpret?

Seems pretty plain to me... I dunno.

[picksbigwagon]

after re reading your original post, there is no magazine restrictions in the state of minnesota. While the legilature clarified the rules, it opened the flood gates of really bad choices of ammo, 9mm being one of them.

[BobT]

I dont this is getting more fowled up as we go. ill just keep trying to get a hold of the dnr and ask them even though im not sure they will know....

I think that's your best bet. MnDakHunter has posted the statute for all to see and it is about as clear as it can get. I don't know how the DNR will be able to put it any clearer for you though. Good luck! Hope you find your answers.

[Svinekotelett]

i wouldent use my 9mm for anything other then target shooting or in the extreme case of personal defense. Actually i should sell my 9mm while i can still get some scratch for it, i find it to be almost worthless as i dont do much target shooting anymore. It would be sweet if huge numbers of people made an outcry on these caliber weapons and wrote there state leislature, i know im gonna, whats next .22 rimfire, buckshot, pellet guns...

[Gus]

IMO, we should not need laws to govern stupidity. Asking for more laws is not the answer.

As BobT said already, Legal and ethical are two different things and legal does NOT imply ethical.

[Svinekotelett]

Who says asking for more laws is not the answer? Maybe its the only answer, Its plain to see that theres alot of people who have no sense of ethics

[picksbigwagon]

I don't believe you can legislate ethics either Svinekotelett.

Have you contacted your state representative and State senator yet? They are the ones that can make the change that you have been clammering for.

[TimR]

Who says asking for more laws is not the answer? Maybe its the only answer, Its plain to see that theres alot of people who have no sense of ethics

I say "Asking for more laws is NOT the answer".

As I see it, there are plenty of people with there head on their shoulders and wouldn't use a 9mm for a primary hunting weapon.

There is one guy who can't get it through his skull that there are many things in life that may be LEGAL, but only the dipsticks do them.

Don't be a dipstick.

Do you need the DNR to tell you to not use antifreeze to keep your hole in the ice open? Or that using a chainsaw to butcher a deer might ruin much of the meat? Or...

Tim

[Svinekotelett]

Standerd 9mm handguns ARE NOT LEGAL HUNTING CARTRIDGES!!!! Nor Is the .45