Northern MN Deer Population

[Bear55]

What qualifies you to say that I and others over react to the presence of wolves in northern Minnesota? Just curious.

It is simply my opinion that people have been whining and greatly over exagerating the presence and impact wolves have on a deer herd. Most of the time these same poeple have never hunted with wolves before and they just about alwasy overreact.

Let me ask some of you paniced about wolves in your area, if these wolves are such killing machines and decimating the heard how is it possible that the deer population has exploded over the past 10 years? Just about every year has been a top 10 harvest! They way you make it sound the wolves should have finished off the deer a long time ago.

Now we might in fact be in for a down year, but it won't be nearly as bad as years past and has little to do with the wolves. If you want to blame anyone for that maybe blame the DNR for giving out a few too many doe tags over the past 5 years.

[BRULEDRIFTER]

Ya know I keep hearing about how the wolves are so good to have around.

Since that is the case why dont all the folks who love them so much transplant them to oh say the metro and southern mn.

Because we are tired of dead calves, dead lambs, does with their stomachs and hams ripped open, fawns taken and left half consumed. I know it was coyotes, or dogs, or bears, or even Rocky the Squirrel. But when ya see it happening...

It is amazing how much experts who dont live here know, how much statistics the biologists show even though we are the ones who see it day in day out, wolves kill stock and game period.

The sick and lame is just that a sick and lame excuse for a killing machine. Ever see what happens to deer when driven out onto a lake up here? Ever watch a pack run deer between sled trails to tire them out? NO because your not here.

I can feel no sympathy for any of this, for you CHOSE to live your life in a rural environment and CHOOSE to live with these risks. You are very lucky to live somewhere and see nature work in it's rawest form!

I seriously don't think you'll find anyone here AGAINST a controlled wolf hunt, but it is great to see so many level headed folks that understand the wolves roll in the ecosystem and arern't delusional with unjustified hatered and fear.

[bogwalker]

Ya know I keep hearing about how the wolves are so good to have around.

Since that is the case why dont all the folks who love them so much transplant them to oh say the metro and southern mn.

[PoorWordUsage] tired of dead calves, dead lambs, does with their stomachs and hams ripped open, fawns taken and left half consumed. I know it was coyotes, or dogs, or bears, or even Rocky the Squirrel. But when ya see it happening...

It is amazing how much experts who dont live here know, how much statistics the biologists show even though we are the ones who see it day in day out, wolves kill stock and game period.

The sick and lame is just that a sick and lame excuse for a killing machine. Ever see what happens to deer when driven out onto a lake up here? Ever watch a pack run deer between sled trails to tire them out? NO because your not here.

Exactly! So many experts who don't live in wolf country. They hear about wolves, maybe even see one or know somebody who saw one. Wolves don't pass through where I live, they live here.

[crothmeier]

Im voting winter, and intensive harvest. everyone taking 3-5 deer can drop a population in a hurry, IMO intensive harvest went on in our area 2-3 years too long.

[Bear55]

I've lived in wolf country before, and I guess I currently do as they are moving into the Brainerd area in larger numbers. I hunt in wolf county north of Grand Rapids. I don't see any reason to panic over the wolves. I have already stated we should have a season on them.

So can any wolf haters answer my question, how is it possible we have has a whitetail population boom and many top 10 harvests over the past 10 years if the the wolves are around?

[Red Miller]

From my perspective, I have hunted state land in Crow Wing Cty for the last 20+ years. Our area went lottery 2 years ago. Last season was the first time ever where there were no deer hanging in our campground after the first weekend.

All we heard was "wolf tracks everywhere". We saw zero deer in the area as well. We had to move and I managed to drop one on Tuesday. That was the only deer in camp. The wolves had apparently run the deer out of the area. I guess you can file me under "wolf hater" because that really sucks!

[bogwalker]

I've lived in wolf country before, and I guess I currently do as they are moving into the Brainerd area in larger numbers. I hunt in wolf county north of Grand Rapids. I don't see any reason to panic over the wolves. I have already states we should have a season on them.

So can any wolf haters answer my question, how is it possible we have has a whitetail population boom and many top 10 harvests over the past 10 years if the the wolves are around?

I don't know any wolf haters. If you hunt north of Grand Rapids this year you might start to understand. Top 10 harvests for Minnesota do not reflect the harvest in wolf core areas. We have areas where deer are pretty much wiped out. It is not only because of wolves but when other factors reduce the deer herd and there is a thriving wolf population to feed common sense dictates that the predator problem is going to be magnified. Talk to people who register deer. Ask them about how many deer they register. Not statewide, in wolf country. Brainerd is not even close to what we have for wolf population. You are barely on the fringe.

[PGE-Hound]

Not sure if this is true or not, but I remember reading something in the paper about the DNR greatly over estimating the deer herd and thats why alot of these areas have a lottery now instead of the bonus tags.

I think it all makes an impact on the deer herd whether it is wolves, humans, bad winters and probably a combination of everything. We should all be glad to have a healthy population of wolves, they are vital to the ecosystem.

[fishinfey8]

I also think its a combination of things. First, harsh winters obviously kill more deer, but lots of snow does enable wolves or cats to clean up on the deer. That being said when there isn't a harsh winter, wolves/cats push deer out of areas but don't kill enough to cause an imbalance in the population. The only large enough factor in the equation is the weather in my opinion.

[Bear55]

I don't know any wolf haters. If you hunt north of Grand Rapids this year you might start to understand. Top 10 harvests for Minnesota do not reflect the harvest in wolf core areas. We have areas where deer are pretty much wiped out. It is not only because of wolves but when other factors reduce the deer herd and there is a thriving wolf population to feed common sense dictates that the predator problem is going to be magnified. Talk to people who register deer. Ask them about how many deer they register. Not statewide, in wolf country. Brainerd is not even close to what we have for wolf population. You are barely on the fringe.

Bog

I have hunted north of Grand Rapids for 20 years, there hasn't been a deer season I haven't seen a wolf, a fresh kill, or at least fresh tracks. Learn to hunt with them or quit hunting because they aren't going anywhere. If you only hunt 2 days a year or on weekends there is a real chance that the wolves can come through and mess up your season. Instead of whining about it try hunting harder or finding a new location to hunt where the wolves aren't as thick. I'm just sick of all the complaining, its much worse down by Brainerd because they aren't use to seeing wolves. Remember everyone this is hunting, you are not entitled to shoot a deer every year. We have been spoiled lately with high deer populations and suddely people expect to see a ton of deer every year. At the first sign of trouble everyone blames the wolves, too funny.

[Red Miller]

I wont contest that harsh winters will kill more deer. I dont believe that the herd is really that far down. I do contest when packs of wolves ruin a prime public hunting area.

The DNR et al, at some point will have to decide whether to promote a "healthy" wolf population or promote a rewarding deer hunt for the state's million hunters and the revenue that it generates. I heard that there were projections of a 30% drop in hunters this year. Could be the economy (which I dont believe) or it could be people just plain fed up.

[sticknstring]

The percentage of hunters that take 3-5 deer in intensive areas is very small. I'd bet under 5%. Wolves eat the rest!

[big drift]

The DNR has about as much control over wolves as they do over their budget.

Folks say look at the harvest reports, well look at some of the zones your talking about also what is dead and barren on one end is different from the other.

I dont hate wolves but I sure as heck want them managed and not by people who have a extremist agenda.

Brule you have no clue as to what I chose or would choose to do so do not make assumptions. I have seen nature in many forms and the damage done by mans failure to manage it.

I suppose it would be different when the soccer moms pet poodle is luch. I guess a farmers livlihood doesnt matter on the land his family cleared over 5 generations cause they chose to move there and they chose to inherit and keep it for their own family.

[BobT]

Quote:

It is amazing how much experts who dont live here know, how much statistics the biologists show even though we are the ones who see it day in day out, wolves kill stock and game period.

I’m not an expert and I don’t live in the north woods area anymore, close maybe, but I’m also not unfamiliar with life “up there.” I was born in Detroit Lakes and at the age of six moved to Mt. Iron. From there I moved five miles down the road to Kinney, which is located about midway between Hibbing and Virginia. I lived on the iron range until I was 31. I continue to frequent the area where I do all my deer and grouse hunting and have a brother, two sisters, mother-in-law, and two brothers-in-law that still live in the area. After high school I spent about 10 years in the logging business around the area so I spent 5 to 6 days a week, 8-10 hours a day in the forest along with the deer, squirrels, mink, fishers, martins, porcupines, beavers, lynx, weasels, bobcats, moose, wolves, etc. And yes, I have encountered all of these and more at one time or another. I have experienced face-to-face encounters with wolves and shot deer within a few minutes afterward. My brother has had wolves walk up to within a few feet of him sitting on the ground only to get surprised and turn tail when they realized he was there.

In all those years spent in the woods, I can with all honesty tell you that every time I encountered a wolf kill in the area, I had predicted it would happen just days before. I’d see an animal that was quite obviously ill, think to myself this one was a goner, find the carcass within the next day or two, and it was always (no exaggeration here) picked super clean or buried under brush. They do that sometimes too so they can come back to it later. Maybe the wolves alone didn’t pick the carcass so clean but between them and the rest of the scavengers, in particular ravens, it was clean.

I can remember one time during the winter of ‘85 when I saw this doe that I could tell wasn’t feeling very good. I’d see her every day in the same area. One day I thought to myself that she was wolf bait and sure enough two days later I found her carcass there. At that time I was dabbling in fly tying and I picked up some belly, side, and back hide from her for my poppers. It was picked so clean I did not have to treat it to preserve it. I can show it to you and you can taste it if you want to verify there is no salt on the hide ‘cause I still have it.

Wolves are not a serious problem. I have yet to see real evidence that they are. I can very easily understand why they might leave a calf or other domestic animal partially eaten because they probably got interrupted in the process. They don’t know and don’t really care about the difference between someone’s pet, livestock, or a wild animal. To them, it’s just an opportunity they took advantage of at the time. This wolf paranoia is really a bit ridiculous in my opinion.

[Odonata]

What about the deer killed by automobiles? We aren't talking about limiting the number of cars on the road. I am not "one who hugs tress". However, I would contend the number of deer killed by vehicles is significant. I see tire tracks all over and we never hear about road kill statistics.

Think about your commute, mine is 35 between Carlton and Barnum. I see dead deer consistently within this stretch of freeway.

I hear the issue with wolves, I have seen sign on our property and experienced a fluctuation in deer numbers. Some of that is a result of other factors than predation.

If the wolf population is out of control, (?) let's manage it. The jury is still out for me on that one.

I think we also put a bounty on vehicles too!

Check this site: http://www.deercrash.com/states/minnesota.htm

[bogwalker]

I am glad to see that some hunters are starting to understand the timber wolf situation up here. I live in Itasca County, hunt in Itasca County and conduct bear research here too. This will be my 43rd year hunting deer. As the wolf situation continues to evolve more hunters will get it. I hope for the sake of our children and grandchildren that a balance is struck between predators, weather , hunting pressure and management of our deer population.

[CatchPhotoFilet]

I too have witnessed what wolves can do to a hunting season or rather the lack of a hunting season. The population is far to out of control. If the state does not do something about it hunters i think soon will as im sure it goes on to this day. the DNR complains about how low in funds they are why not open a season and charge hunters who would gladly harvest a wolf and pay a fee to do so. To any hunters who might contemplate taking the management action on your own be careful of radio collars! I have seen a few with them but more without. and remember the only way a fish gets caught is when he opens his mouth!!

[Bear55]

Bog I'm kind of suprised you are this alarmed after having so much experience with wolves over the years. Most of the extremest posters are from the fringe areas and have never hunted with wolves before.

For the sake of our children and grandchildren answer me this, if these wolves have the capability to whipe out deer populations why hasn't it happened in northern Minnesota or Canada many years ago?

You have to realize that the deer population has grown over the past ten years, the wolf population is going to grow right along with them. If the deer population is on the decline you can bet the wolf population will soon follow. I am really not the least bit worried about it, I actually think its kind of funny all these people are panicing over wolves in their area, maybe their will understand what some of us in Northern MN have been hunting with forever.

[Red Miller]

They werent a problem because they were almost erradicated by humans.

I think that part of the problem is the wolves that were bred in captivity, released, and subsequently multiplied have no fear of humans. A controlled hunt in strategic areas done annually may help that problem by instilling an inherent fear of humans and their haunts. Granted, the huggers may never see a wolf in the woods but most of them dont go in the woods anyway. As Joe S. calls them....euphorians.

Bounty on vehicles?? I like that!

[BRULEDRIFTER]

Brule you have no clue as to what I chose or would choose to do so do not make assumptions. I have seen nature in many forms and the damage done by mans failure to manage it.

I suppose it would be different when the soccer moms pet poodle is luch. I guess a farmers livlihood doesnt matter on the land his family cleared over 5 generations cause they chose to move there and they chose to inherit and keep it for their own family.

Who's making the assumption's now?

I'm not going to dive in my life history to tell you where I've lived and what I have learned/know, for it has absolutely no bearing on this post, but I will tell you that I did grow up in the cities and CHOSE to get outta there long ago! I know life in the Northland pretty well and I am very familiar with the mentality of a lot of the locals.

You'll just have to get used to the Big, Bad wolf, I guess, because they're here to stay!

[Bear55]

They werent a problem because they were almost erradicated by humans.

I think that part of the problem is the wolves that were bred in captivity, released, and subsequently multiplied have no fear of humans.

You've never ran into a wolf in the wild before have you?

I can tell you there have been plenty of wolves around where I hunt dating back to the 1940's. I highly doubt anyone was breeding and releasing them back then. You sound like the guys who claim the DNR is releasing packs of wolves all over the state. Oh and how could I forget, the DNR is secretly breeding and releasing cougars too.

[Red Miller]

I know for a fact that breeding pairs were released in the very woods we hunt about 4 years ago in Crow Wing Cty. I do realize that further north the wolves are more than likely natural born but make no mistake they most definitely have been bred raised and released in multiple areas around the state. And no...never seen one in the woods. Never saw any tracks either up until about 2 years ago. Got 'em now. and the deer know it.

btw, there was a reason they were almost erradicated and it wasnt sport. Its because they are destructive.

[wh1stler]

I know for a fact that breeding pairs were released in the very woods we hunt about 4 years ago in Crow Wing Cty....

If you know for a fact, back it up! Let's see the evidence.

[Red Miller]

We were told about it by the local CO at the time.

[BRULEDRIFTER]

I don't doubt a breeding pair was released in your area, however, I HIGHLY doubt they were raised in captivity. I mean, think about it???? Does anything raised in captivity survive in the wild? Heck no!

Also,

Why would a wolf population completely destroy their main source of food? Seems extremely unlikely to me! They don't it's a natural predator/prey balancing act that ebbs and flows like everything in nature.