Minn. could see antler-point restrictions in 2010

[picksbigwagon]

CSTPETER,those are my opinions and feelings....clueless? that's your opinion.

wanting to change state regulations to make your hunt for bigger bucks better? That is not selfish?

What is the old saying, you can't make all of the people happy all of the time?

I hunt SE MN where the deer population is (I can only imagine) different than up around Bemidji. The whole goal of AR is what? Bigger bucks! some try and say a healthier herd or a better age structure, but when it all comes down to it, big world class bucks are what they really want.......I call that selfish.............

[Jameson]

...I'd say that those in across the board opposition to any attempt at managing for more than a shooting gallery are going to need to take the blinders off and learn a little more discretion and patience. You guys all act like it's your god given right to shoot any animal that walks along without regard for the the health of the herd or the satisfaction of your neighbors hunt. It's pretty obvious we all want different things from our hunt. Some want meat, some want trophy's. The problem is that the state management policy is right now geared toward the Non quality contingent 100%. There needs to be a balanced approach to management that takes into account the wishes of all camps, not just the brown it's down point of view.

so what's the solution? Antler restrictions don't let the guy that only shoots spikes, and lets all the healthieast 2.5 to 5.5 year old bucks walk, hunt the way he wants to hunt.

What's the solution????????? Best I've seen posted on this thread are buck lottery, no hunting for X number of years, and no hunting during Oct. 15 thru Dec 1.

What's the solution?????

[MOSSY]

I agree picksbigwagon

Why should the satisfaction of my hunt be compromised so the ar peaople can get what they want

[bmc]

I'd be happy to see an antler restriction in place. I'm an avid bowhunter and have only shot less than half a dozen deer with a rifle. I hunt in zone 170, Grand Rapids area. My dad has 120 acres and a friend of ours has another 40. We see a big buck (120" or bigger) every couple of years. I still hear alot of people ask, "Did you get your buck yet?" When it should be "Did you get your deer yet?" I know people around here that would rather shoot a spike or forkhorn than a doe. Granted I've done that too, but am now at the point where I'd rather shoot a doe and let the little buck grow. Which is a double edged sword, because there's a good chance the little buck I pass up will end up in someone else's freezer. Which is frustrtating, but it is what it is.

I think people are fearful of change for the most part, but honestly believe if people give the antler restriction a chance, they'd be happy with the results.

Brian

[lungdeflator]

My grandpa, dad, and uncle built a cabin at the end of the west branch trail in 1973. We got 14 different bucks and countless does on the cameras, but only saw one during the season. its rough up there.

[CSTPETER]

Are we really going to need to satisfy a coningent of hunters that refuse to shoot a mature buck and antlerless deer? Doubtful. So the balance needs to be split between Trophy guys and meat guys. In an area that holds a huntable doe population I'd say APR or Buck Lottery and No crosstagging would be in play. This provides some degree of protection to 1.5. y/o bucks and allows a meat hunter to harvest anything but a 1.5. y/o for the freezer.

In areas where shooting a doe is not an option I think the solution becomes the no crosstagging rule. Although compliance is low (I think Lou quoted a 6% decrease in the harvest of immature bucks), It's something.

In my opinion Jameson, those are viable solutions. It's gonna have to be about compromise...and my crystal ball tells me neither side will be happy when changes are made.

Originally Posted By: CSTPETER

...I'd say that those in across the board opposition to any attempt at managing for more than a shooting gallery are going to need to take the blinders off and learn a little more discretion and patience. You guys all act like it's your god given right to shoot any animal that walks along without regard for the the health of the herd or the satisfaction of your neighbors hunt. It's pretty obvious we all want different things from our hunt. Some want meat, some want trophy's. The problem is that the state management policy is right now geared toward the Non quality contingent 100%. There needs to be a balanced approach to management that takes into account the wishes of all camps, not just the brown it's down point of view.

so what's the solution? Antler restrictions don't let the guy that only shoots spikes, and lets all the healthieast 2.5 to 5.5 year old bucks walk, hunt the way he wants to hunt.

What's the solution????????? Best I've seen posted on this thread are buck lottery, no hunting for X number of years, and no hunting during Oct. 15 thru Dec 1.

What's the solution?????

[picksbigwagon]

Now no cross tagging of bucks, I could agree to that....not eliminating party hunting, but me NOT shooting 5 bucks, I can agree to that one. See, that would be middle ground.....Not sure how or if it is enforceable......I also want the seasons closed during the Rut......

[CSTPETER]

I agree picksbigwagon

Why should the satisfaction of my hunt be compromised so the ar peaople can get what they want

MOSSY...listen to yourself man. Right now your preferred management practices negatively influence my hunt.From my perspective You're already guilty of what You're accusing me of.

[Shack]

Quote:

Minn. could see antler-point restrictions in 2010

If this happened, IMO that would bite big time~!

You are telling me that if I miss count threw the scope one tine I could be fined and you would have to double make sure of the tine count, while making a precise kill shot? I see more wounded deer verses killed deer if this happens. I mean come on?

A hunter brings the scope up to the rack, checks it out, move it to the vitals, double thinks their self, move back to the rack to recheck and then back to the vitals and hopes they counted right?

Personally if the DNR gets involved with QDM, I see my deer hunting days coming to end soon in MN. Next thing you know, 10 years down the road we will be restricted to paint ball guns with cameras on them, taking an instant image of the deer as the paint ball hits it .

IMO, I personally feel the deer population around the area I hunt is fine and if you want a trophy buck, you just have to hunt better!

[CSTPETER]

ShackBash...Where would you hunt if you chose not to hunt in Mn?

[Getanet]

I was on a different thread topic a month ago saying there's no way the DNR would implement any of the QDM tactics that have been suggested. Shoot, I hate to be wrong. I'm hopeful this is contained to the Bluffs area, and nothing else. If a very specific part of the state needs AR in order for the deer population to be healthy that's fine I guess. But where I hunt it's definitely not needed.

[mrklean]

Shackbash not to jump on you or the other guys that said it but if you cant fully tell what your shooting at should you shoot at it?

[rbs]

All of you have made your point. How about another tag option? You could have a doe tag, a small buck tag or a trophy tag. Now wouldn't that solve everything? I know it wouldn't but yet I also know that where I live in Morton that some people shoot whatever they want and don't really care. It is my personal opinion that youth should have the option of shooting whatever they want. Us grown-ups should shoot what they apply for whether it a doe or a buck. Not either sex...I think either sex is a bunch of [PoorWordUsage]. You want meat....fine....shoot a doe....leave the little bucks grow!

I also will say that in the area where I live that if they put a point restriction that there would be a lot of people that would not be able to taste some venison unless they had a doe permit. There is not a right or wrong answer in any of this. Just opinions and every opinion is swayed to the way they believe or how they were brought up(genetics?) Take care and don't get too riled up...only opinions right?

edit- not intended to be a reply to anyone individually

[B. Amish]

there's a pretty big difference between seeing and knowing that you're about to shoot at a buck and seeing and knowing wether that buck has 7 points or 8.

[MOSSY]

maybe everyone needs to get back to the basics of hunting

it was for meat not horns.i can about guarantee anyone that their grandfather,probably even father didn't care if the deer they shot had a large rack.

[mrklean]

RBS, i agree with you youth should be anything and adults different but you know whats gonna happen, adults are gonna use that tag, they know thats a problem now adults using youth tags to tag their deer. Personally i think we should toss the youth tag

[rbs]

I agree with you as well...then it is a ethics issue. Not even a ethics issue that is just plain illegal....really too bad!

[vister]

the reason grandpa and greatgrandpa didnt care about horns or not was because back in the day, if you saw a deer, you shot it. simply for the fact that there wasn't near the numbers of deer we have today.

now that we have very good numbers of deer in most areas, why don't we go a step farther with the quality of deer harvested? I'd be all for trying it for a year or two in my zone. maybe then neighbors would start to think it was the greatest thing on earth. or maybe i'd be whistling a different tune, and think it was a horrible idea. I guess before it has been tried out for a few years, we don't really know if it is for the good or the bad.

in state land currently with AR, has there been numbers of illegally killed immature bucks. has any data been collected that we know of AR's results working, good or bad?

how about people that shoot cows, horses, moose, and elk, especially other hunters, thinking that their target was a deer?

AR is simply a method of being more able to identify your target as well as herd management. instead of the"buck, bang!" method, you actually would have to get a good look at your target.

Bottom line, whether or not AR would be a regulation, my neighbors and hunting party will continue our AR practices where we hunt, because since we started within the last 5 years, we have been shooting more bigger bucks, and many nice does. We have passed on many little bucks, and haven't seen a negative result. Deer numbers are great, and the overall herd health is even better.

between myself, grandpa, dad and brothers, we have over 1700 inches of antler hanging up, just within the past 5 years. sounds like something is working in our neck of the woods.

[PEATMOSS]

For me, the whole QDM thing is sort of the straw that broke the cammels back. I see the QDM movement as symptomatic of a larger trend of conflict between what I would consider "the elitists" and the "traditionalists" of the outdoor world. As a traditionalist, I see things slipping further and further away for folks like myself. What was once the sport of the common man is rapidly evolving into an expensive, overly regulated GAME in which scores are kept in inches, be it fish or antlers.

Just like the gungrabbing liberals, one regulation will lead to another. 4pts on a side will evolve to 5pts on a side...then 10 pt bucks will become "scrubs" and it will be 6pts. If you greedy, self righteous folks keep it up, you'll probably win, because we all know the better financed, better organized side usually prevails. While you're at it, keep buying up/leasing and posting as much timberland as you can afford. You can't possibly have a "quality" hunt with commoners marauding about in the same forest.

My apologies in advance for the nasty tone, but the outdoors is not a game or a hobby to me. It is a way of life. If trends continue, I'm very afraid we'll go the way of Europe. Remember, every "weekend warrior" that you folks drive from the outdoors is one less hunter, one less license sold, one less voice defending hunting and probably eventually one less gun owner.

Enjoy your hunting everyone, for whatever it means to you. But PLEASE, FOR THE LOVE AND FUTURE OF THE SPORT, GET OFF OF YOUR HIGH HORSES AND STOP TRYING TO FORCE EVERYONE TO BE LIKE YOU.

[Phill Aldahl]

So who is on the high horse?

[CSTPETER]

[

Enjoy your hunting everyone, for whatever it means to you. But PLEASE, FOR THE LOVE AND FUTURE OF THE SPORT, GET OFF OF YOUR HIGH HORSES AND STOP TRYING TO FORCE EVERYONE TO BE LIKE YOU.

[MOSSY]

DITTO

[winterwalleye]

This will hurt hunting if done . We are already seeing a decline in hunters especially youth and if this passes it will only get worse. I think we should let the hunters decide this by letting them vote on this when they purchase a deer licence.The silent majorty would then be heard and I believe this would not pass. This law would only benefit the rich who have more time to hunt and own land. Let the hunters decide what they want to shoot.

[PEATMOSS]

CSTPETER,

My friend, I'm forcing nothing on you. You and others are free to pursue your beloved antlers. You are under no obligation to shoot anything that does not meet your standards.I am not trying to force or even persuede you to shoot anything you don't want to. Further, you are free to advocate your position and persuede others to follow your course.

Truly, if even half of the hunters in this state CHOSE to abstain from shooting "immature" bucks and refused to allow others to use their tag, you'd have your improvement. We have great bass fishing in this state, not because of restrictive regulations, but because of an ethic especially among good bass fisherman. Yeah, there are still folks that string up some toads from time to time, but the number of folks doing this are dwindling and they have a negligable effect on the population.

Likewise, if the majority of deer hunters CHOSE to follow your course, you'll have your buck utopia in due time. However, the fact that some of you folks are so insistant upon FORCING your agenda into law leads me to believe that deep down you're afraid that not that many really agree with you.

[MUSKY18]

I, for one, hope it does pass and they implement it state wide. You can label me as a "Trophy Hunter" if you want, but the fact of the matter is that in the area we hunt, if you get a shot at a small basket 8, you are lucky. Every single little buck seems to get blasted, and never make it to the age to become an eight. Let em go, let em grow.....I hunt meat first and foremost, and that usually means I will be looking to shoot a big mature doe before a small immature buck. Piled up two of them this past season and they taste very good.

I know up where we hunt, the same people that sit and complain about never getting to shout at a big buck are the same ones with spikes and forks riding around in the backs of their trucks. If you are hunting for meat, help the population and shoot a doe if you are able to, within the laws and regs.

We hunt up north and know about the "slim" times. There are 18 of us in our hunting party and we went 5 years without anyone getting a deer, but we all let the little ones walk and two years ago one of the guys shot a 10 point that dressed out at 228. Big deer with big meat on it!