Texas Hold 'em question

[LwnmwnMan2]

It's new, new places are usually nice.

Dinner can be a little on the expensive side.

About 1/2 of the dealers used to deal at Hinckley, if you knew any of them.

[koonie]

Quote:

I was playing out at Running Aces

Figured that as soon as I read the first post.

I'm not going to bash them too bad because Running Aces 2-60 game is to die for. But the dealers and the entire gaming staff for that matter are very inexperienced.

After being spoiled at Canterbury it was quite a shock to see the huge differences in the two operations. In fairness they are New and most of Canterbury's dealers have been with them 10 years plus or more in some cases.

Most often if you pay close attention to the hand and speak up quickly you can catch dealer mistakes before it's to late.

Koonie is a bit off on some of his Poker etiquette information he has given above.

Cards speak (cards read for themselves) meaning if you announce a pair of 2's but actually have 4 Aces it doesn't matter you get credit for your actual hand which is 4 aces!

That's in any Casino or Tournament, and, in every home game I've ever played in also.

I guess I've never played in a home game where you didn't have to call your hand. We always do. If you don't know what you have how can you win? Oh well. Still a good time no matter how you play.

[PierBridge]

Actually koonie now that I think of it when we were younger playing stud, draw and other poker games. I think it was required to call your own hand.

In Hold'em Generally the cards read.

Yes Dtro $200 max buy-in and it can be one hand so you better not play GARBAGE hands...LOL

I've probably played 6 times now and only once was it reckless. If you play smart/tight like I'm sure you do and get some cards it can be profitable.

[zamboni]

A kill game, or kill pot is when they double the blinds when the same person wins the pot twice in a row and keeps doubling as long as the same person keeps winning.

Just a fun little twist.

I’ve been playing a 2/4 kill game where the blinds have been 16/32. Very rare to win 4 in a row, but it has happened on occasion.

They of course revert back to the original level after someone else wins a pot.

I hate kill pots. Hate em hate em hate em

[Windy City Walleye Hunter]

I hate to have to agree with Pier on anything! LOL But we are on the same page here, integrity of the game. As for the kill pots, correct me if I am wrong dtro but doesn't the person who has the kill button (the one who has already won two or more hands in a row) have to post the double big himself? He does get position but he has to commit more money to the pot and people usually call because there is more free money (money put it without looking at your cards) than in a regular pot.

I like the small game they have up at the Palace in Cass Lake when we are on vacation. It is a no limit 2-10 spread, action can be pretty good on that game. I also play at the Northern Lights and they are usually busier than the Palace, as far as poker goes.

[eric29]

Originally Posted By: eric29

I think the unspoken rule is to keep your mouth shut unless ur in the hand. Its not just the dealers job to see the winning hand. The guy that had the winning hand should have seen it and said something.

100 percent incorrect.

I think some of us are getting confused. It's the Dealers and the players jobs to protect the integrity of the game. In other words get the correct result. You are right about keeping your mouth shut during a hand you are not involved in but that's an etiquette issue and has nothing to do with the Basic rule of Texas Hold-em that at the end of the Hand the CARDS READ! Once the hand is over you do everything possible to get the chips to the Winning hand.

As far as Casino's go my Favs 5 is no-limit at Turtle, Treasure Island, Black Bear, Jackpot J, and now running Aces.

Canterbury has the most skilled dealers IMO and you get more hands played with less potential for problems.

The Running Aces 2-60 game is a $50 minimum $200 max buy in! So don't be a afraid to give that a whirl...

I dont believe it has anything to do about the integrity of the game. The game has alot to do with lying and manipulating opponents so wheres this integrity come from u talk about. Players should know what they have in their hand at all times and if a dealer miss reads the cards, its that guys responsibily to correct it and nobody elses at the table. When i said keeping ur mouth shout i didnt mean it as an etiquette issue, players can chitt chatt at the table all they want even if they arent in the hand, yes it polite not to but no rules on that. What i meant by it was not saying anything towards the result- it wasnt your place to do that.

Yes home games are different bc its friends and ur just having fun, but when you go to a casino or whatever people tend to take this stuff very seriously.

[LwnmwnMan2]

Shoot, the one time I'm talking about in this post, I spoke up more for the mere fact I was questioning myself.

As I stated earlier, I haven't been playing all that long, or frequently enough, and when I saw A/6 win over A/3 with A,2,4,K,5 on the board, I spoke up more for the mere fact my brain was going into overdrive as to trying to figure out why the straight didn't win.

It wasn't like "HEY!!! THAT GUY WON!!!"

It was more like, "hey, shouldn't the 3 play there for the sraight?"

More or less reaffirming that I actually do know what wins and what doesn't.

[DTro]

As for the kill pots, correct me if I am wrong dtro but doesn't the person who has the kill button (the one who has already won two or more hands in a row) have to post the double big himself? He does get position but he has to commit more money to the pot and people usually call because there is more free money (money put it without looking at your cards) than in a regular pot.

yes sorry, I explained that horribly. You are right.

[Shack]

Quote:

I dont believe it has anything to do about the integrity of the game. The game has alot to do with lying and manipulating opponents so wheres this integrity come from u talk about.

Is cheating ok then? Is that right and part of the game if you get away with it?

I agree with what you said during the bluff, but once a player has called to see the challenging hand(s), the bluff is over. IMO anything further is pretty much cheating. A player who says they have the winning hand when they do not, show's said hand and toss's it quickly into the card pile to avoid being caught is not strategizing, they are a cheater . If someone intentionally takes a pot while knowing he/she did not win is a cheater in my book. If I see something wrong during a game from the dealer, to the player who does not put the correct amount of chips in, I will speak up.

Anything short of that, I would just not play at this place or with this group again. Everyone's idea of playing cards is different and the integrity of the game (like Pier said) is king. If you do not have that integrity, who is going to play with you? At least not me

[Bigbartguy]

I agree. While speaking up about an error wont make you popular (w/ the loser) it should be done. The cards are what they are.

[eric29]

Im not trying to start a fight or anything here all im trying to get across is that in a card room setting, it is not your place to correct the dealer unless your in the hand. Im not saying that i agree with this "rule" but it is what it is. Maybe it can be called cheating but i wont go that far with it unless the dealer was doing it on purpose.

If you took this question back to the card room and asked the guys who spend 12+ hours a day sitting there theyll tell you the same thing.

You did the right thing but in the card room its the wrong thing.

This has absolutely nothing to do with putting the right amount of chips in unless ur comparing apples and oranges, you can correct someone if they put the wrong thing in.

[PierBridge]

Quote:

Im not trying to start a fight or anything here all im trying to get across is that in a card room setting, it is not your place to correct the dealer unless your in the hand.

We're not trying to start anything either. But you are....for the last time 100 percent wrong on this point Eric!

Period!...

[eric29]

Quote:

Im not trying to start a fight or anything here all im trying to get across is that in a card room setting, it is not your place to correct the dealer unless your in the hand.

We're not trying to start anything either. But you are....for the last time 100 percent wrong on this point Eric!

Period!...

I know ur 100% wrong on this, Period!!!

Morally he did the right thing but thats not right in poker world. Were not talking about the morall thing todo.

Dont tell me im wrong when you dont know what going on besides what you think is right.

[SkunkedAgain]

Wow, I feel like a referee. Since you're both convinced that the other is 100% wrong, how about one or both of you find the rules. I'm sure that some governing poker body has a set of rules for you to quote. Think about it....putting the other guy in his place with evidence!

[Windy City Walleye Hunter]

Eric,

Sorry dude, but you are wrong here man. Think about it, the chips are already in, the hand has been called, the only thing left is to see the cards. If the dealer makes a mistake and misreads the cards why should the person who is getting the chips prosper from the dealers mistake and why should the person not getting the chips be penalized by the dealers bad read. Integrity of the game, man. Yes, poker is all about taking advantage of your opponent, catching his hole cards if he is picking his cards up too high, picking up his tells, bluffing, pushing a big stack against little stacks, goading somebody into a call or chasing them off the winning hand but after all the moves are made THE CARDS SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES! End of story dude.

I mean, if a guy drops some of his chips on the floor and bends over to pick them up is it OK for you to snatch a few of his chips off his stack if nobody else sees you do it?

Integrity of the game man!

[eric29]

Thats not even the point. The only way the guy with the winning hand is penalized is if he doesnt know what he has, and then its his job to correct it. Never once have i said that this is a fair rule but its one of those things. Y is it somebody elses responsibility other than the guy with the winning hand to make sure he gets his chips. Its another thing that goes along with always knowing what u have in your hand. Id make [PoorWordUsage] sure that i get my chips if i had the winning hand. And if i had a losing hand and they push chips my way im not going to say anything. Its a dog eat dog world, your out there for yourself and only yourself, not to make sure the guy next to gets his chips.

Yeah the hand was over but does that make it ok to look at folded/mucked hands-no. It doesnt matter that the hand was over.

The point is that you always have to be on the top of your game you cant always rely on the dealer bc mistakes happen not alot but they do. If your not on the top of your game, people can take advantage of you and thats what happened here but with the help of the dealer.

Its not easy to explain y this is how it is but thats poker. I feel like you guys are looking at this differently, like whats the morale thing to do or whats the "right" thing to do or what would Jesus do. But when you step into a poker room all those things are out the door.

I never said cheating is ok, i geuss i dont see this as cheating but for someone who hasnt spent alot of time in a poker room it may look that way.

Poker has its own ettiquete, rules, and unwritten rules that dont go along with the rules of society. You also have to remember this happened in a game that wasnt being played fun wth friend. This is a unwritten rule of poker and it is what it is.

[DTro]

I guess I have my own rules of etiquette then. If a pot is pushed to me by mistake, I push it where it's supposed to go.

[McGurk]

Quote:

And if i had a losing hand and they push chips my way im not going to say anything. Its a dog eat dog world, your out there for yourself and only yourself, not to make sure the guy next to gets his chips.

Morality might be stopped at the door of the Poker room, but I'm pretty sure Karma will get in regardless. I'm walking away from this table.

[Shack]

Thats not even the point. The only way the guy with the winning hand is penalized is if he doesnt know what he has, and then its his job to correct it. Never once have i said that this is a fair rule but its one of those things. Y is it somebody elses responsibility other than the guy with the winning hand to make sure he gets his chips. Its another thing that goes along with always knowing what u have in your hand. Id make [PoorWordUsage] sure that i get my chips if i had the winning hand. And if i had a losing hand and they push chips my way im not going to say anything. Its a dog eat dog world, your out there for yourself and only yourself, not to make sure the guy next to gets his chips.

Yeah the hand was over but does that make it ok to look at folded/mucked hands-no. It doesnt matter that the hand was over.

The point is that you always have to be on the top of your game you cant always rely on the dealer bc mistakes happen not alot but they do. If your not on the top of your game, people can take advantage of you and thats what happened here but with the help of the dealer.

Its not easy to explain y this is how it is but thats poker. I feel like you guys are looking at this differently, like whats the morale thing to do or whats the "right" thing to do or what would Jesus do. But when you step into a poker room all those things are out the door.

I never said cheating is ok, i geuss i dont see this as cheating but for someone who hasnt spent alot of time in a poker room it may look that way.

Poker has its own ettiquete, rules, and unwritten rules that dont go along with the rules of society. You also have to remember this happened in a game that wasnt being played fun wth friend. This is a unwritten rule of poker and it is what it is.

If you’re talking about truck stop poker or some "goon" who feels he is right in a card room, then yes.

If it comes to actual professional poker like the PPT, WPT or the WSP, this would not fly. You would be called out right away and even by another player who is not in the hand I do not think any professional player would take chips that are not his/hers to take. Truck stop poker player, basement card game, regular Joe at the casino all the time, then "Yes" is a big possibility.

Just imagine if someone did what you are saying in World Series of Poker. For one, they would not because of the fear their integrity would be shattered and two, it would be cheating.

[drip]

I agree, if you are playing in the WPT or WSOP you would never have to worry about this and if you are playing in a game with someone like Eric29, get out while you still have your fingers.

[Dan189]

Always...

Always...

Always...

.........

.........

Always..... Question the Dealer!

Make absolutely certain positively SEE the cards don't take their word.

It has only bit me hard 'once,' and boy was it sour!

It was only 4/8 at Canterbury but it was a decent pot at 160-180. And I had pocket Kings. Max bet river and turn, with a guy chasin' his flush. He was on the opposite corner of the table, flips up his cards, and dealer pushes out and says Flush!, and starts pushing the chips towards him. MISTAKENLY, out of frustration, I mucked my KK. As he started pushing the chips to the guy with his 'flush' the guy next to him says to me, 'you couldn't beat a pair of eights', I immediately watched the dealer scoop up the cards, and let out a silent yell inside! I didn't say anything other than rolling my eyes, since there was nothing that I could do. I couldn't go to the cameras since I mucked. I knew it was my bad for mucking my cards, but I place equal to greater responsiblity on the dealer for the mistaken call, and the sheepish gentleman claiming all my chips.

I don't necessary believe in Karma, but it left such a sour taste in my mouth a buddy and me started to focus our play and slowly worked about 150 of those back from him before he bailed on us.

LESSON Learned. Don't trust a dealer's call, ALWAYS be absolutely certain of the cards, whether you muck or not.

[eric29]

Well i guess im a cheater now bc all im trying to do is tell you guys about this unspoken rule in the poker room. No this will never happen in a game on tv or internet but it can happen at your casino poker rooms.

Ive spent thousands of hours playing on tables at the casino and have gotten a good understanding of rules and ettiquette along the way. The only point i was trying to get across was if your not in the hand keep your mouth shut and thats it, its as easy as that. Its not your responsibilty to make sure the fish gets his chips.

So if keeping my mouth shut at the table makes me a cheater, so be it. And you guys can keep fixing everything at the table just make sure the guy not paying attention get his chips and making a few people mad along the way, as long as you are preserving the "integrity" of the game.

At this point im agreeing to disagree.

[Shack]

All I am going to do is quote a verse from a great song

Big jims been drinkin whiskey

And playing poker on a losin night

Pretty soon, big jim starts a thinkin

Somebody been cheatin and lyin

So big jim commences to fightin

I wouldnt tell you no lie

And big jim done grab his pistol

Shot his friend right between the eyes

I would hate to be taking Big Jim's chips, if he knew better or not

[nofishfisherman]

I'm guessing that the others that have posted here have played in a few poker rooms over their days and so far only one person knows of this unspoken rule.

If the only mistake is made by the dealer I feel its everyones duty to speak up. If my opponent can't figure out his own cards thats one thing, but if he shows a straight and calls a straight but the pot is mistakenly pushed to me holding a busted flush draw then I would expect someone to speak up.

Everyone should take care of their own 2 cards but I think its everyones job to take care of the dealer.

[Windy City Walleye Hunter]

Eric,

The unspoken rule of not saying anything if you are not in the hand ends when the hand ends. Once all bets are either called, raised all in, mucked or folded the hand is officially over and the only thing that remains is for the dealer to see who won. IT IS NOT A BREACH OF THE UNSPOKEN RULE TO QUESTION A WRONG CALL BY THE DEALER, in fact it is your duty as a poker lover to protect the integrity of the game. Think about that and you may change your mind.

Also, if the dealer forgets to push the button to the next player is it only the player who is getting the button's right to alert the dealer that he did not push the button over? NO everybody should tell the dealer, nobody should get the unfair advantage of keeping the button more than once, yet I see this happen all the time and I tell the dealer, even when I am the one with the button.