Someone has to do it - - -Todays article on Jr

[bottom-bouncer]

hey neighbor guy im pretty sure that kelly is a boy. from dales first marriage.

[BK19]

hey neighbor guy im pretty sure that kelly is a boy. from dales first marriage.

no its a girl also jrs manager and she is married to jimmy eledge (spelling)

[Big Dave2]

KERRY is Dale Jr.'s half brother.

[Big Dave2]

Well, all I have to say is that anyone that has won 2 Busch series championships probably has earned a spot in the cup series.

[HOF#13]

Jr.'s no hack...and he has proven himself to be an elite driver in my opinion. Remember...he has never asked to be NASCAR's most popular driver, and he has both a lot of unfair expectations and hatred towards him simply because of who his father was.

ESPN did a SportsCentury piece on Jr. a couple of years back, and they talked about how his dad did not help him out at all starting his racing career until he signed with DEI to drive in the Busch Series. Dale Sr. wanted Jr. to learn the hard way and put his own money and effort into things to see if he was dedicated enough to make it work.

As for Sunday...I can't stick up for Jr. regarding his pit road issues. In my opinion, completely inexcusable. As for the wreck...Jr. had his front quarter panel inside of Vicker's car and then Vicker's forced Jr. below the yellow line. If Vicker's would have blocked Jr. before Jr. got inside of him, that would have been fine. However, IMO Jr. had the position and Vicker's forced him down and Jr. had no where to go. I honestly don't think Jr. meant to clip his bumper, as Jr. has shown over the years he is not that type of driver. Anyhow, I'm placing blame 60% on Vicker's and 40% on Jr. Both should have used better judgment with so many laps to go in the race. BUT...if Jr. would not have had his head up his hind end everytime he went to pit, he never would have been in that position a lap down.

Just another reason why lap down cars should not get to start up front on the inside row IMO. All restarts should be double file, in the order you are running. The lap down cars can start in the back and fight with each other for the lucky dog, without ruining the day for the front running cars.

[Big A]

ESPN did a SportsCentury piece on Jr. a couple of years back, and they talked about how his dad did not help him out at all starting his racing career until he signed with DEI to drive in the Busch Series. Dale Sr. wanted Jr. to learn the hard way and put his own money and effort into things to see if he was dedicated enough to make it work.

Do people SERIOUSLY think that Dale Sr didnt help JR during the beginning of his career ?!

Did Jr win the lottery or something and I missed it? The only "job" he has ever held is racing... Geez... wonder where that $$$ came from?

Solid bet it was from his DAD !

[HOF#13]

Originally Posted By: HOF#13

ESPN did a SportsCentury piece on Jr. a couple of years back, and they talked about how his dad did not help him out at all starting his racing career until he signed with DEI to drive in the Busch Series. Dale Sr. wanted Jr. to learn the hard way and put his own money and effort into things to see if he was dedicated enough to make it work.

Do people SERIOUSLY think that Dale Sr didnt help JR during the beginning of his career ?!

Did Jr win the lottery or something and I missed it? The only "job" he has ever held is racing... Geez... wonder where that $$$ came from?

Solid bet it was from his DAD !

Actually, if you ever watched stories done on him, despite who his father was, he was not fed by the silver spoon. I all I can say is what I've seen and read. I honestly don't know why it is so hard to believe that Dale Sr. made Jr. work on his own in the early stages of his racing career. Dale Sr. was never handed anything, so I think it is more likely he was going to make Jr. work for it also. Granted, once Dale Sr. put him in the Busch Series under DEI it was a different story.

[harvey lee]

Thats correct HOFF13.

From what I have watched and read, Sr was very tough on Jr from a little boy on.

[elevatorguy]

I am with you 110% hoff#13. I have seen the same shows with him and about him. Regardless of who his dad is he is still a good driver!

GO 88

[chippewachuck]

jr is no elite driver. he is elite in popularity.

18 wins - many on plate tracks

and quit bringing daddy into it. daddy hasn't been here for a long time.

[Big Dave2]

jr is no elite driver. he is elite in popularity.

18 wins - many on plate tracks

and quit bringing daddy into it. daddy hasn't been here for a long time.

What difference does it make where he got his wins?

What is it that makes someone an "elite" driver? Jr. is tied for 8th in wins among active drivers.

He is also 39th I believe all time.

[TNFL]

Quote:

What difference does it make where he got his wins?

I don't want to take those wins away from him, because even if you have good equipment you still have to know how to use it. But that being said, Daytona and Talledega are two track where you can basically put your right foot all the way to the floor and never have to lift it, you judge the skill level in that.

All I know is, (not sure how this relates) when I did 3 tracks at the MOA silicon motor speedway, the first 2 were really difficult to run clean on, then the 3rd was a plate track and you just had to but the pettle down and drive where-ever you wanted. That has to relate somewhat realistically to the real thing.

Now here are the stats:

From 2001 to 2004 Jr had 13 (points) wins 7 on R-plate tracks. But what really raises eyebrows to me is that during that span his teammate No-talent Waltrip had 4 wins at R-plate tracks. That would point towards them having the best equipment at two of the easiest handling tracks (especially if you're in front the whole time).

Again, congrats on those wins, nobody can win without good equipment.

But what makes someone "ELITE" in my opinion is being able to do it at a variety of tracks over a sustained period of time.

[harvey lee]

Yes, you can put your foot down if the driver and the crew chief has communicated well enough to get the car set up so one can flat foot it. Not quite that easy I'm sure or everyone would be winning the plate tracks. The flat footing may be easy only if the car is set up for that.

Jr has been on his new team for one season. Give him a little time and things may well change.

[gregg52]

somebody above said leave daddy out of it he been gone for a long time

thats true so i'm believing alot of the sucess jr had was still from what the ole man put into dei and probably taught jr how to run plate tracks as he was very good on them

as dei started changing after he was gone so did the performance

kinda like havick winning that first race u can believe that car was good to go for the ole man

time will tell how good he is no excuse other than maybe tony jr isnt that good

but i believe the 5 will finish well ahead of the 88 and i guess you might consider him in the e-lite hes won on most tracks including road coarse's which i think tells how good drivers really are

[chippewachuck]

Quote:

But what makes someone "ELITE" in my opinion is being able to do it at a variety of tracks over a sustained period of time.

perfectly said

Quote:

Jr. is tied for 8th in wins among active drivers.

active: waltrip lagano speed vickers mears robby sorenson juano sadler + more - not hard being 8th after some 10 seasons

Quote:

He is also 39th I believe all time.

and thats ELITE?

[Uncle Bill]

he is no excuse other than maybe tony jr isnt that good

Bingo !

Time for cousin goober to move on.

[gregg52]

lol cousin goober lol

[harvey lee]

HMS will see that the whole team is better and can compete or it will be gone. Many have come and gone from HMS and either you can win races and do well in the standings or one will be looking for another job.

His finish in the standings were beter than the majority last season and he should do better this season. Jr will be around for a long time to come.

[Big Dave2]

Quote:

All I know is, (not sure how this relates) when I did 3 tracks at the MOA silicon motor speedway, the first 2 were really difficult to run clean on, then the 3rd was a plate track and you just had to but the pettle down and drive where-ever you wanted. That has to relate somewhat realistically to the real thing.

Yeah that's exactly like running a Sprint Cup race!!!!!!!!!

Try going 190 mph with a car 2 inches from your front and back bumper and one that is a foot or two away on at least one side of you.

[Big Dave2]

Quote:

He is also 39th I believe all time.

and thats ELITE?

considering he is only 10 years into his career. He has 6 more wins than Mark Martin did at this point in his career.

Of the active drivers, I dont think too many people would disagree that Gordon, JJ, and Stewart have been in a class of their own their whole career. But of the other drivers that are above JR. in career wins, they were all at or below Jr. in wins at the same point in their careers that Jr is at right now.

[harvey lee]

I guess anyone could run a plate track at 200mph with a group of 40 cars. And here I thought it would be tough to run with the Cup cars.

[gregg52]

ya runnin at 200mph is no easy task if you saw the 20 in pratice these guys must have powerful headaches when they get out of those cars inches apart for 3-31/2 hr nobody who they are they are all good but just like all other pro sports some beter than others

just when you going down the road at 70 they are going 3 times that fast at that trck and at least twice on most tracks

[TNFL]

Quote:

Quote:All I know is, (not sure how this relates) when I did 3 tracks at the MOA silicon motor speedway, the first 2 were really difficult to run clean on, then the 3rd was a plate track and you just had to but the pettle down and drive where-ever you wanted. That has to relate somewhat realistically to the real thing.

Yeah that's exactly like running a Sprint Cup race!!!!!!!!!

Try going 190 mph with a car 2 inches from your front and back bumper and one that is a foot or two away on at least one side of you.

Quote:

I guess anyone could run a plate track at 200mph with a group of 40 cars. And here I thought it would be tough to run with the Cup cars.

Jeez I didn't see that coming you guys twisting my words. Read it again I never said that I or just anybody could run plate tracks. My point was that these "games" try to be as realistic as possible, and the plate track was just plain easy in comparison to the tracks that you actually have to toggle between brake and gas. I never see Jr. wimping out and deciding to "run the high line" at the plate tracks. If Jr. ever wants to be elite he needs to forget about that High line carp and learn how to run on the bottom and adjust his car to run on the bottom.

But maybe you are right, If Waltrip can win a plate race maybe ANYONE can win a p-race.

[LMITOUT]

If Jr. ever wants to be elite he needs to forget about that High line carp

Yeah, cuz that never worked for Richard Petty....

[harvey lee]

I do not want to see members get upset over this Jr bickering. Lets all just let this one die for the best interest of all.