Synthetic Oil

[DRH1175]

What do others think about synthetics. I have been using Mobil 1 and really like it. But for $60 I can get Trop artic full synthetic vs myself buying the mobil 1 and having it put in for $32.

[The_Duckslayer]

Synthetic is all that I use in our motorcycles. Amsoil for everything in them. I also use Amsoil for all the things around the house that are 2 Cycle, weed eater, blower, chainsaw, ice auger, and the boat. One summer I actually hope to put more hours on the boat motor than I do the weed eater! Take care and N Joy the Hunt././Jimbo

[Hard617]

GM's having magnetic drain plugs, I did a little test for myself. At the time I was using mobil 1 and at 3,000, I would have a nice build up on the plug. Switched to amsoil and would start to build up at around 5,000. 2 years ago now I switched to Royal Purple and couldn't be happier. Nothing on the plug ever. spendy, but IMO worth every penny. I actually use the oil life monitor. when it says change, I change. thats about 6-7,000. If you plan on keeping your vehicle, use the best that you can afford.

[DRH1175]

Where do you buy royal purple? I did a search on ratings and found one that had them all. It had Amsoil at #1, Mobil 1 at #2 and royal purple down around 7. I guess bottom line is there a oil that is far supierior?

[The_Duckslayer]

The sites that I looked at did not rate it very high either.

I would imagine, though that it is still better than the non synthetic stuff! I guess I will stik with the Amsoil. Take care and N Joy the Hunt././Jimbo

[fishorgolf]

The debate will rage on about what syn oils are better than others but in the end the one thing that will be for certain is that any syn. oil is better than conventional oil.

[DRH1175]

Yes very good point! Thanks I guess I prefer the Mobil 1 and Amsoil products. But had Trop Artic synthetic put in yesterday and was just trying to gauge if it is as good as the other 2 or close anyways. Where is the best place to buy Amsoil? I have a couple good places for Mobil 1 but would like to find some better priced places for Amsoil.

[Scott K]

Right on the top of the screen , Don aka theoilman sponsors our auto forum, he will have it shipped right to you!

[Ralph Wiggum]

I usually get my Amsoil at Fleet Farm.

[jwhjr]

I've been a Mobil 1 user for about 15 yrs now and just recently switched to Amsoil for my truck. I'm still running Mobil 1 in my wife's truck.

[hondavxr]

I use to be a die hard Mobil 1 user until I found out that they changed their Mobil 1 formula. Mobil 1 is not a group 4 truly synthetic formula anymore. Its Group III cracked petroleum with synthetic molecules. Why waste money, if I spend $6/quart for synthetic, I want real synthetic like Amsoil, Redline or Royal Purple.

[deadeye]

Eneos all the way. Overnight it straight from Japan.

[theoilman]

Get the facts. Actual test data run by independent test labs listed by brand names. These links take you to the data.

Automotive Engine Oils Test

MotorCycle Oil Test

Gear Lubes Test

If anyone would like a printed copy of any of these drop me an e-mail with your name and address and I will mail it to you.

Pricing? For only a $10 membership fee (6-months) you can become a 'Preferred Customer' and get AMSOIL for wholesale. 5W-30 sugg retail $105.60 case of 12 qts, wholesale $79.20, Ships from closest distribution center - Superior, WI for most here.

Discussion further on types of synthetic base stocks?

[DRH1175]

Thanks Oilman I will do that it is quite a savings. And is the best oil. Also does the ATF really replace every ATF outthere. So I can run it in my Durrango, Corrolla, and Accord?

[Sutty]

I use in Amzoil in most of my stuff with good results. I have used Mobile 1 in my vehicles for years, it looks like they compare pretty well in most of the tests but not all, I have been thinking about switching them over and probably will this summer.

[theoilman]

The AMSOIL ATF can replace most others.

Dexron all including III and VI

Mercon , V and SP

ATF+4

Toyota T and T-IV

Honda Z1

Nissan Matic D, G and K

and a whole bunch more. Complete list on this page: AMSOIL ATF

Not for any CVT transmission.

[DRH1175]

oilman, What is the difference between the 0w-30 Amsoil that I bought at the honda dealer for my Foreman ATV and the 0w-30 That I bought for my car on the Amsoil site. I was told it has to be a Jaso approved for the gears. The stuff I just bought doesn't have that rating. Or should I go to a 10w-30 for the atv?

[hondavxr]

Eneos all the way. Overnight it straight from Japan.

I heard the Eneos is also some great oil, they are just starting to get into the US market now.

[theoilman]

The ATV oil should be 0W-40 AMSOIL product code AFF, (or 10W-30 Motorcycle MCT). You need the JASO rating of MA or MB series for the wet clutches. The gear rating of GL-1 is covered by all AMSOIL motor oils.

The 0W-40 AFF - labeled "Power Sports Oil" - recommended for most 4-stroke ATVs and 4-stroke Snowmobiles is also excellent for 4-stroke augers too.

The 0W-30 product code SSO is AMSOIL's best for automotive/light trucks - "Signature Series" - does not carry the JASO MA or MB series ratings for the wet clutch (not tested for JASO ratings, I don't know if ok or not).

[DRH1175]

I ordered some 0w-30 for my vehicles yesterday off of your link oilman. I checked the oil I had here from the last change on my atv it was the ow-40 like you stated thanks for your info!

[opsirc]

I have used Mobil 1 in my Dakota from the first day I bought it, never had any problems. it still runs like it was brand new.

[Iron Cowboy]

Oilman, I noticed in your fact sheet for gear lubes they didnt include Redline shockproof heavy in the comparison. I am sure you are aware of it. anyone that has a Harley knows about it and the miracels it works in these hard shifting trannys. I have also used the amsoil 20w50 in my bike and it had a 15 degree drop in oil temp compared to dino oil but the redline 20w50 had another 10degree drop in temp from the amsoil. these are "real world" tests and not something on a sheet of paper. The base stocks are different, redline uses a pure ester base, the same oil used to cool the jet turbines so if you are looking for a good oil try this stuff I have no interest in the company and have nothing to gain, just a happy customer.

(NOTE FROM ADMIN: PLEASE READ FORUM POLICIES BEFORE POSTING)

[theoilman]

This is a long post, but to try to cover all the info brought up ... ...

The AMSOIL gear lube tests included the products that are most used and popular for the primary differential market - which is now mostly pickup trucks. Redline is an extremely minor player in that market.

As the MotorCycle oil tests included the products which are popular in that market - very different in the 2 tests.

Temperature drop tests in a personal application can be difficult to repeat and get accurate test data. If the air temeperature or humidity are different, if the road is different, if the speeds are different - all will influence and invalidate the data. AMSOIL uses only certified independent laboratory tests when data is printed like this. There are many real snake oil companies that used testamonial infomertials (dura-lube, qmi, and many others) that the Federal Trade Commission told them 'prove all your info - convert it to data - using repeatable standardized lab tests - and we will permit you to continue advertising. None of them proved any of their data, none of their infomercials exist any more.

I will give you an 'observation test:' A local shop builds performance Corvettes - 3 that will be running in the 24 hour Rolex race in Datona very soon. He used to run redline. He tests with a full data acquisition package on his cars. He ran a series on a road course track with the redline and took data. He changed the transmission (synthetic syncromesh fluid 5W-30) and the differential (75W-90 synthetic gear oil) to AMSOIL. Then he reran the course. He ran nearly identical lap times (with 1 or 2 seconds). When you put the transmission and the differential temperature data on the same computer screen, the AMSOIL ran between 25 deg and 30 deg cooler than the redline - all the way around the track. The temperatures would change as it was run around the track, straightaways, turns, as the power curve changed, the temperature changed, but the AMSOIL tracked the cooler temperature.

Base Stocks - yes jet engines use Group V diester lubes. AMSOIL used to use diester for engine oils when it first came out in the 1970s. Redline still uses diester. In the 1980s AMSOIL laboratories found that PAO Group IV base stocks blended with a small portion of diester Group V actually produced a far superior lubricant. Also, diester base oils have a very big problem as a 4-stroke engine oil - they tend to repel from metal surfaces - they will not coat unless they are extremely heavily loaded with additives to compensate - to the point that the additives to do this job will impare or cause the other additives necessary for the oil to work to work poorly or not as well as they need to.

AMSOIL uses the base stocks and additives that will lubricate and protect the best.

AMSOIL does use diester based oils for all the 2-cycle oil family including the Saber Professional. The diester is an ashless oil, burns away clean, lubricates better, and when mixed with gas stays mixed and actually protects better.

Sales Business Model: Yes, AMSOIL uses a MLM or Net-Work marketing sales plan. When selling a far superior product or something that is very different from the conventional it requires an individual to show and explain why spending more of your good money is in your best interest, giving you a superior product for a fair price. Here on the FM forums I usually don't mention any of this, you just want the correct technical information backed by availability of the best product for your application.

By-the-way, Jesus was one of the first and very successful NetWork marketers. He took 12 men (and one of them was a flat loser) and in fairly short order spread a new and then totally unorthodox message to the then known world. And we still use the same NetWork business model to continue to spread the Good News today. There are many 'Judas' companies out there today who have given MLM a bad name, and a few overly zealous AMSOIL dealers, but the model is the most sound and potentially successful one there is.

[Iron Cowboy]

Oilman, Thanks for the informative response. You seem to know a lot more about the oils than the other amsoil guys I have talked with before and a lot of what you say makes sense. I cant find anything that works as good as the shockproof heavy in my trans. but if amsoil ever has a similar product available let me know. thanks again for good response.

[theoilman]

What is your vehicle / transmission?

From what I have been able to read, I would be extremely cautious using the Redline Shockproof family of lubes in any automotive or truck transmission or differential. These are built as speciality performance lubes for specific racing and commercial applications. They carry no API GL certifications - some transmissions require ATF, Syncromesh, GL1, GL4 and a very few GL5 - a lot of different specs in today's transmissions. Almost all differentials require GL5.

Redline does have a line of GL gear lubes for highway vehicle use, and are different from the 'Shockproof' family.

Most non-certified lubes are built for specific applications and do not carry the additives required for conventional service life applications. Non-certified lubes carry no warranty, especially any coverage from the vehicle manufacturer. They are intended for a very short life use only. For example AMSOIL's new racing oil family (the RD series) carries no API engine oil ratings - they are intended exclusively for performance racing use only and not for conventional hiway use.