They'll hit you where it hurts!!!!

[Dave S]

Or at least they'll try.

It sounds as though one of the possible changes for ATV riders for the new year is there is going to be a proposal to seize ATVs for certain violations.

To this I can honestly say it's about time. Enough of the petty fines for the people who ruin it for the rest of us.

In other news, there was a group of 18 ATV riders who were out in the Nemadji State Forest. Not sure when. It was in teh Cuffs and Collars this week.

[Roofer]

Where did you read this?

[jltimm]

I read that to, it was in the Outdoor News. It's to bad the snowmobilers are treated so special.

[Dave S]

Yes, it was in the ODN.

[Dave S]

I read that to, it was in the outdoor News. It's to bad the snowmobilers are treated so special.

Did you read the letters section? You'd think twice about that comment.

[jltimm]

I just got it today, so I haven't read it all yet.Will do though.

[shadyzr]

It's going to get so bad with laws, why even buy a 4-wheel drive?

If your on a trail and you come up to a little mud on the trail, be looking over your back if you drive through the wet stuff. You might get a ticket. And if there is'nt too much snow during the winter, and your driving through the bottom of the ditch where your suppose to be. And you come upon a snowmobile trail that goes through the ditch where your suppose to be riding, if you go on that trail, you will get a ticket. If you come upon a stream or lake stay out, ticket! How about the public access, don't drive in the water, you'll get a ticket. But you can back a boat into the water, rev up the motor of an outboard and dig a hole upon taking off. NO ticket for that. Would'nt that be harmfull to the so called shoreline? I have an Argo 6 wheeler that I can drive into a lake and go fishing, OOPs tires, possible ticket. I had to license it as a watercraft also or get a ticket for unlicensed watercraft. As soon as the machine floats it becomes a boat. And the C.O. can determine if the tires did any damage to the shoreline, possable ticket!!

There hardly is anywhere you can ride an ATV anymore for what the ATV was designed for. We might as well go down to the go-kart track and drive around on a tar track. And I don't condone going around tearing up the woods, so I don't need to hear from the tree huggers, and the GREENIES. Years ago when they started making all the,"You can't do this anymore", laws. They said it was ok to ride on,"EXISTING" trails on public land. I had access to a few nice lakes to go public shore fising. So they changed the law to close trailes if the C.O. thought it might be best. Kind of makes you wonder if the rest of the lakeshore owners did'nt bribe the DNR.

If its your property and you have a small mud hole and want to ride through it, yes again, "TICKET". I'm not breaking any laws, I just don't like some laws that were dreamed up!

[kr8r.tom]

they need to make up a trail system from town to town in the iron range like they have in west virginia, the hatfield/ mccoy trail system is absolutly awesome, it would revitalize the range and give people in this state a place to ride and they are atv friendly up there. i live in the agriculture zone and i'm not allowed to ride the thing with ditch/road restrictions and all private land.

[Big Dave2]

In other news, there was a group of 18 ATV riders who were out in the Nemadji State Forest. Not sure when. It was in teh Cuffs and Collars this week.

When I read that, I was hoping it wasn't you!

[Roofer]

shadyzr, I hear you.

Although you can ride on private property where ever you want as long as the water is all on private property. If it's a river, forget it, or even a very large swamp, but if you have a mud hole on your property, have at it.

[tonkapat]

maybe the tickets and fines will fund a trail system and atv park. but i would say probably not. but I ask why create another law allowing enforcement to seize property. That allows them to take when they want at there own discretion. dip your tires in the river lose your ride? Be careful what u ask for, it may someday be u.

[Dave S]

IMO, it's all the more reason to know/understand the laws and even more incentive to stay one the trails.

[hawkeye43]

Roofer, I was told by the DNR that if you own the land around the water, thats all you own. You do not own the water.

Any water, moving or not, 10' across or 100,000 acres is "Waters of the State" and they own it.. If a farmer digs thought water hole, he can get a ticket also, just like a 4-wheeler driving in it.

Yes it not right, but do they enforce the law????

[BobT]

Roofer, will you represent me on a contingency if I get caught with my ATV in the wetland on my property without just cause? I'm AG licensed but even that doesn't allow me to have at it. Don't get caught tearing up wetland whether on or off your property.

Bob

[Dave S]

The law used to state that you can cross on your own property as to create minimal damage. I don't have the specifics infront of me. I will double check.

If it's anything like the hunting laws, they may have neglected to print that in the new regs.

[Dave S]

OHVs and wetlands, lakes and rivers

In general, off-highway vehicle (OHV) riders should avoid riding in and around wetlands, lakes and rivers.

Avoid public waters: OHV riders need to use extra caution during drought years when lakes and river beds dry up. While the water has evaporated, the boundaries of public water beds remain and are illegal for OHVs to ride. You can find the public waters boundaries at the DNR HSOforum.

Be conservative: Sometimes it can be difficult to determine whether you are in a wetland or a public water. Play it safe. When in doubt, don't ride there.

In 2004, the Minnesota State Legislature modified OHV wetland riding rules to permit operation in wetlands subject to Wetland Conservation Act (WCA) regulations (MS Chapt. 103G.2241). Under the WCA, impacts to all types of wetlands, not just type 3,4, 5, and 8, will be considered. If damage results, the law invokes a "de minimis" provision which allows for some minimal impact (up to 400 square ft.). In counties with more pre-settlement wetlands (80% or more), the de minimis threshold may actually be higher with approval of the County Board. Careless, reckless or unsafe operation remain unlawful and are punishable by fines and restitution.

Another important feature of the new wetland legislation is that exempted activities in wetlands (agricultural, utilities, etc.) are also exempted for OHVs. Finally, the DNR Commissioner was given the authority to issue permits up to 10 years in duration to exempt private landowners or leaseholders from this new law when the only reasonable access to a permit applicant's land is across state land. In sum, activities that "carelessly" upset the natural or ecological balance of a wetland or public waters wetland will trigger enforcement action. Clearly, OHVer's will need to exercise good judgment when they operate in or near a wetland.

For more information on OHV wetland operation, click on Wetlands.

Note: Public waters are all waterbasins and watercourses that meet the criteria set forth in Minnesota Statutes, Section 103G.005, subd. 15 . Public waters wetlands include all type 3, type 4, and type 5 wetlands (as defined in U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service Circular No. 39, 1971 edition) that are 10 acres or more in size in unincorporated areas or 2 1/2 acres or more in size in incorporated areas (see Minnesota Statutes Section 103G.005, subd. 17b ). The boundary of a public water or wetland is considered the ordinary high water level.

Technical definition of wetland types in Minnesota

[Roofer]

Does that say anything about private land? or did I miss something?

It talks about access to private land crossing state land, but nothing about if you own the entire area.

It does say this in the regs............

OHVs and Wetland Disturbance

A person may not operate an OHV in a manner to:

• indicate a willful, wanton, or reckless disregard for the safety of persons

or property

• carelessly upset the natural and ecological balance of a wetland or public

waters wetland

• impact a wetland or public waters wetland in excess of minimum amounts

established under law.

Wetland restrictions apply to private land as well as public land, and vary

by area of the state and other criteria. Check the DNR Web site for more

information, www.mndnr.gov.

Ok now, with all that being said, I don't think anything is clear. If you look at all the regulations, a CO could stop and ticket most anyone, IF they wanted to for many reasons.......For example, I have seen plenty of atv's going over 10mph on frozen waters and well within 100 feet of a fisherman. Have also seen plenty of atv's without their lights on.

These rules are so vague, it's very hard to interpret.

I do know that it used to be illegal to cross wetlands on private property, but that was changed a few years ago. I know that because I know the people that were involved in getting the law changed.

[Dave S]

looking at the last paragraph of italisized text Roofer, it does include private wetlands as well.

[Hammer Handle]

I don't agree with all the laws, but we have to start somewhere.

Our natural resources are being used by more and more people and things are getting worse, not better. New lines have to be drawn to protect all land.

Farmers used to tile fields and drain ponds and dump chemicals near the lakes. Most of this is illegal now. And, I am glad it is.

I believe large speed boats and manicured lakeshores will be next...and I hope it is!