Musket Scopes

[Musky Buck]

Hey Boozehound I'm an Ottertail county guy as well, this is where I've been dealing with baiters, scoped Muskets, numerous trespassing issues, poaching, early/after hour shooting, road hunters I mean road shooters. I wish there were about 10 more Tricia Plautz' and Greg Oldakowski's and the new Perham guy I was used to dealing with Flodeen and occasionally the retired Bruce Faltzgraf. Year after year of this is really becoming tiring. The scariest time is that last 1/2 hour or so because I have many fenceline huggers, 2 years ago my life almost ended as a stray bullet went whistling by just a few feet away, someone shot I assume at a deer on private land on a hill with standing corn as a backdrop, I was sitting watching the field road in the middle of the field under the pivot and it was frightening, some do that, shoot one at dark wherever and come back to get it later after the hunters are in for the night or if busted drive off fast and leave the area altogether. No doubt sledneck, technology has really gotten technical !

[BeezeHound]

I hunt by Amor, my grandparents have a farm there. Sunday morning the opening weekend of rifle hunting I heard my first shot at 6:21 am! I don't know what goes through some peoples heads sometimes. Two years ago, headed back out to the woods after lunch and as I came to the top of the ridge about 150 yds. from my stand I thought I spotted some orange. Took the binocs out of the pack and sure as [PoorWordUsage] there was somebody up in my stand! I tried to make my way down to the stand as quitely as possible, but he saw me soon after and hurried down and hopped the fence. [PoorWordUsage]! Its no wonder hunting gets such a bad rap from the commmon public.

[Musky Buck]

I hear ya, when I was 15 I shot a 12 pointer, 209 pounds on the scale, took my dad to help get it, it was the first year I could hunt deer without a grown up, I was plenty excited, when we got back to my stand a guy from White Bear Lake was sitting in my stand, he said I almost shot your deer, saw it laying over there, would you take 300 bucks for the head ? My father said if you don't leave on the double you'll get 300 stitches in the head. I have no clue how I didn't see him on the trail out, where he came from, no doubt he knew he was in the wrong area as we owned at the time the whole section. I hunt 2 miles south of New York Mills.

[deerminator]

Muzzleloaders dont look very traditional to me

No, they don't look like the old muskets, but inlines rely on the same concept when it comes to hunting during Minnesota's muzzleloading season - one shot and open sights. The ignition system is obviously different but that's more an advancement in functionality, that your gun will go off successfully nearly every time. A scope can lead to a substantial advantage in accuracy at longer ranges.

That's not to say there's not a place for them during gun season, just not during muzzy season in my opinion. Otherwise, you might as well just have a second gun season instead and open the woods up to everyone again.

[SlabSlayKid]

if we dont want adavantages over the deer we mite as well get rid of all weapons and go out in the woods naked and on all 4s and try and harvest a deer with our bare hnds. face the facts hunting is never gonna b fair because we r in the tree with a weapon waiting for that uneuspecting deer, not bashing anything because i love it. Instead of arguing why we should or shouldnt hav scopes y not justs legalize it and let people decide on their own. n for all those saying we want muzzy scopes to make up for lack of target practice i will put in my 2 cents and say i can make 6 inch groups at 100yds open sight but id rather be able to use a scope and make 6 inch groups at 150yds. I just want to harvest a nice deer. The idea of tradition means little to me, and if i want challenge i go out with the bow. on the other hand i dont bowhunt becasue its challenging, i just do it because i cant hunt with a scoped rifle all fall. i would if i could tho

[Quackaddict9]

Sledneck-my thoughts excatly, them muzzleloaders nowdays dont look traditional and way better than the old days, more accurate, bettter bullets, less time to load and whatsoever.

Quote:

I guess I'm old-school... the point of muzzleloaders is that they are traditional. They are still pretty accurate, my uncle has one that cost less than 300 bucks and he can hit a 5 inch group at 100 yards. More accurate than my smoothbore shotgun with a scope on it. Just take ethical shots within your range. If you want a scope, go rifle hunting

I said the same thing because its traditional but why scopes on rifles if they didnt have them on rifles in the past. Well we'll be seeing scopes being legal on Muzzleloaders within the 5 years.

[Dirtyb25]

I've come very close to using my muzzleloader with a scope on it for regular rifle season, I guess it's no real surprise since we've applied a ton of technology to a rifle system that's 150 years out of date...... But, my muzzle loader is almost as accurate as the rifle I've used to hunt deer my entire life.

With, or without a scope, I'd feel completely 100 percent confidant to take a shot at 150 yards, and about 90% confidant at a 200 yard broadside shot.

[swampbuck]

I had a nice buck in last night at 40 yds well within legal shooting time. i glassed him all the way in from 80 t0 40 yds, He was easily visible at 80 with binoculars, yet when he got to 40 I could hardly make out the form of the deer. I glassed him again and easily saw him. I put my gun up 4-6 times and could not see him at 40 yds to take a good shot. waited for 45 minutes forhim to walk off so i could sneak out.

I f I had a scope It would have easily had enough light to take the shot (I had ten minutes of legal light when he was at 40 yds) I would have loved to shoot him, but could not pull the trigger. I had the saftey off for a long time waiting for a "good" shot. Hope fully I will get a crack at him yet with gun or bow.

I would love to have a scaope on the smoker, but the law says no, I was at a major outdoors retailer in brainerd yest am and was SHOCKED at the wall of quick release scope mounts in the ML section.

I wonder how many guys get to their stand and throw on the scope themn pull it off at the end of shooting light?

I think a LOt more people hunt with scopes than we realize.

[deerminator]

if we dont want adavantages over the deer we mite as well get rid of all weapons and go out in the woods naked and on all 4s and try and harvest a deer with our bare hnds. face the facts hunting is never gonna b fair because we r in the tree with a weapon waiting for that uneuspecting deer, not bashing anything because i love it. Instead of arguing why we should or shouldnt hav scopes y not justs legalize it and let people decide on their own. n for all those saying we want muzzy scopes to make up for lack of target practice i will put in my 2 cents and say i can make 6 inch groups at 100yds open sight but id rather be able to use a scope and make 6 inch groups at 150yds. I just want to harvest a nice deer. The idea of tradition means little to me, and if i want challenge i go out with the bow. on the other hand i dont bowhunt becasue its challenging, i just do it because i cant hunt with a scoped rifle all fall. i would if i could tho

Again, then I say forget muzzleloader season and just lobby the DNR to open up shotgun/rifle season from where its at now through mid-December. Same difference. I'm also going to start lobbying the DNR to use night vision goggles and laser pointed sights while bowhunting because what's tradition and what's the difference? Killing a deer is killing a deer.

[kr8r.tom]

well, if we gotta go naked on all 4's then i'm all for moving the season away from the rut

[Dirtyb25]

well, if we gotta go naked on all 4's then i'm all for moving the season away from the rut

Naked and on all 4's would be perfect for knife season.... provided it's still during the rut.

[BeezeHound]

Again, then I say forget muzzleloader season and just lobby the DNR to open up shotgun/rifle season from where its at now through mid-December. Same difference. I'm also going to start lobbying the DNR to use night vision goggles and laser pointed sights while bowhunting because what's tradition and what's the difference? Killing a deer is killing a deer.

[deerminator]

No, it's not the same, but it's headed in that direction. Next, it will be, well why only one shot? What if I wound the deer with my first one? (And than can happen to anyone no matter how good of a marksman they are.) I've got the scope, now give me the ability to take another shot too. Let me use my rifle or shotgun instead.

I hope you understand, I'm not for limiting hunting opportunities or saying guys should only use traditional equipment. I'm just saying, the muzzleloader season was originally established when muzzys were more traditional because it was and is harder to get a deer with one. And if those disadvantages are slowly taken away, than the DNR might want to think about making a change to muzzy season or eliminage it altogether or open up a longer gun season, etc.

[Musky Buck]

I think a little to is it changed. Before all-season licenses came on-board you had to declare either rifle or muzzleloader, you couldn't hunt both. Starting this year you could buy all 3 if you wish, basically to save the cost of 1, meaning I got rifle/musket. I get the feeling it's most likely the new wave muzzleloader hunters that want scopes, we are so used to them rifle hunting, why not bring them onto the muzzleloader front. The before all-season tag musket guys, the original die hards probably prefer it being more traditional, just speculation. I have to agree with the guy about that buck he couldn't quite get zeroed in on, last year I knew it was a buck, not sure of the size so I passed, if I had a scope I would've gotten a full update, last 10 minutes of shooting light, binoculars wouldn't have been an option, I had about 5-10 seconds to analyze, 1 shooting lane and gone, oh well, I'd rather take a doe than an immature buck so that is how it went. Maybe we'll see a double barrel muzzy someday, 2 hammers. I hope not.

[goblueM]

I'm amused by all the people that say "oh i would have got him if I had a scope, or if I had more than one shot"

Newsflash! That's the point. Traditional hunting means harder hunting, usually. If you don't want the challenge, hunt the rifle season like everyone else.

[BeezeHound]

I'm guessing that most of the new comers to muzzy hunting already hunt with a rilfe/shotgun. There has deffinitely been an increase of new hunters to the sport since there is no longer that choice of having to choose one method over the other. I sure do miss the all season license though, much nicer having it all on one tag instead of three different ones. Muzzy hunting is stil much easier than bow hunting, so for me, if I want the really hard challenge for that day then I will sit with my bow.

[Musky Buck]

I agree goblue, if I had a scope that buck may be deceased, I don't want scopes allowed, my gun couldn't fit one anyway,I certainly wasn't thinking oh man if I had a scope he'd be done, I think I was getting at that in low light times of the day a scope would be a huge plus because that is when most of the musket deer activity takes place, I'm certainly not in favor of scope use,I let him walk with no problems, T-Center Black Mt. Magnum is a synthetic old school basically, I use black powder and a cap. I agree that's what makes it more of a challenge, so does the colder temperatures, and that a quarter million or more are already in freezers.

[Quackaddict9]

Quote:

Traditional hunting means harder hunting, usually. If you don't want the challenge, hunt the rifle season like everyone else.

traditional, once again why scopes on rifles then? in the past there were no scopes on rifles.

[vister]

in the past there wasn't denalis, tahoes, f-350's, etc to get you to and from a stand. even if you could have a scope on a muzzy, i wouldn't have one. i bet a muzzy with a scope is more effective, or useful at 200 yards plus than a scoped 30-30. if you could have it scoped, why wouldn't u be able to use your 7mm mag instead?

the way i look at it is this. muzzleloaders are an effective way to harvest deer. so are modern compound bows. muzzys are just another way to hunt, with a lot less chance of harvesting an animal. a lot of things have to go right in order to bag, just like archery hunting.

the only thing i don't understand is with a Dr.'s note, why can a person use a scope with 1x magnification. isn't it easier to see open sights with poor vision rather than the fine crosshairs in a scope. guess i don't know, i eat my carrots!!

[kr8r.tom]

vister made a point. if muzzleloaders advancement in the field is opposed then why should the new 350fps bows be allowed? i'm for longbows and flintlock only!

[kr8r.tom]

i changed my mind, spear only no other kind of hunting allowed. the only exception is by snare.

[SlabSlayKid]

i'm for havign the greatest advantage i can. challenge and tradition dont mean as much to me as harvesting a trophy does, and i want to do it by any legal means possible. Im amazed my all the high technology optics and would find much more excitement in dropping a deer at 500 yards with a well practiced rifle shot then i would dropping one at 50 yards with the muzzy. The traditon don't much matter to me, i dont think it matters to the deer either because they are at a disadvantage either way. Heck, all our neighboring states allow it, might as well hop on the band wagon especially since we already have such a high population of deer and numerous zones in the state are intensive harvest or lottery harvest zones.

[96trigger]

Quote:

. Im amazed my all the high technology optics and would find much more excitement in dropping a deer at 500 yards with a well practiced rifle shot then i would dropping one at 50 yards with the muzzy.

Maybe thats the problem, you, like some other rifle hunters never get a deer to walk close to you. I would rather shoot a deer at 10-30 yards, watch it drop, and not have to track and pray I made a good shot. I know at that range its going down. When you have a deer with 10 yards of your stand, your heart just starts pounding, doesn't even matter the size. If you have never experienced that, especially with a nice buck, I can see how a scope would interest you more. I'm all for saving the 500 yard shots for the prairie dogs and streaky gophers. I always let all the deer I shoot get as close as I possibly can. I use all my bow skills with the firearm but don't have to worry as much about concealment because I am not moving as much. To me, getting them that close is just a rush..

[goblueM]

for sure, 96. I hunted with my shotgun this year, and then took another deer with a scoped 30-06. It was like cheating! I mean it was great to pop a deer with it, but the rush wasn't nearly the same.

What I love most about hunting is the up close and personal with nature. Heck even if I don't see a deer but see a bunch of cool wildlife and a beautiful day from before dawn to sunset, I'm way happy

[UMDSportsman]

the only thing i don't understand is with a Dr.'s note, why can a person use a scope with 1x magnification. isn't it easier to see open sights with poor vision rather than the fine crosshairs in a scope. guess i don't know, i eat my carrots!!

My father has had 20/15 vision his whole life and in the past 5 years or so he has needed glasses for reading and night driving. The problem, for him at least, is when it comes to focusing on three things at once, the back sight, the front sight, and the target. He has some troubles with that even whith his glasses on. He is currently hunting with open sights, but has the slip and all he needs to do is have it signed by the eye doc.