? on basket racks

[slimngrizzly]

If I had a nickel for everytime someone has asked me that! If your a shed hunter youd know what I mean! haha....

The shape, the nurls, the beading, the grooving, the veining, the tine configuration, the bend, the swoop, all the things that fingerprint a buck. This one coincidently was EASY to follow because he was a mainframe 2x2 his whole life. Of all the deer to live and pass on his genes.... it had to be this big forky. He was a prime example of poor genetics!

Its the same deer, Id bet my life on it!

[sticknstring]

Show us a pictoral timeframe of how his antlers progressed/regressed over the years. 10 seasons in the wild. Now that's impressive.

[slimngrizzly]

I dont have all the sheds anymore.... Ill show you the sheds from 1996 and the antlers from the skull in 2003.... I dont have pics right now, ill have to take them tonight.

I can show you some other series of other MN bucks from 2 1/2 to 5 1/2 though. Its tough to find several years from the same buck where im at.... they all get killed right away.

Ill get those pics of the 9 1/2 year old though.... the changes he made from 3 1/2 to 9 1/2 will shock you!

[Level3]

I'm no expert on ages, but I'm amazed at the difference in size of trophy deer compared to a younger buck. I had the experience of observing an antlerless deer with a forkhorn, and the difference was dramatic, but a trophy buck (10 plus, and a nice inside spread) came out with them. It looked like a horse next to a pony and a dog. I never got a shot at any of them, so I will never know the age, but I know at first, the forkhorn looked big until the the trophy showed up.

I've also seen a scrawny six point rack on a large, "puffed-out", and in rut buck before too. I have to believe genetics have something to do with it, or all deer would be identicle.

[snoozebutton]

If you think it's a nutrition issue you can try giving them a mixture of Di-Cal (Di-calcium phosphate) and mineral salt in the spring, 2 to 1 mineral salt to Di-Cal. The di-cal's the important part. The calcium and phosphate are the major ingredient for antlers, it also helps the does with milk production when nursing fawns so it is a plus for the whole herd.

[PerchJrkr]

I use beef mineral. Its called Hi-Phos 8 and you can get it for about 20$ a 50# bag at your local grain elevator. something around 17% calcium and 8 or 9% phosphate.

[Shoot2Kill]

If I had a nickel for everytime someone has asked me that! If your a shed hunter youd know what I mean! haha....

The shape, the nurls, the beading, the grooving, the veining, the tine configuration, the bend, the swoop, all the things that fingerprint a buck. This one coincidently was EASY to follow because he was a mainframe 2x2 his whole life. Of all the deer to live and pass on his genes.... it had to be this big forky. He was a prime example of poor genetics!

Its the same deer, Id bet my life on it!

I have 5 years of sheds from the same moose and I get those same questions!

I've seen sheds from a deer from 8 consecutive years, it's awesome to see the progression.

[96trigger]

Yeal, Level 3, in a previous post I mentioned that I saw a nice 8 pointer that I don't think anybody would argue was a good shooter deer come out of the woods last weekend. 45 minutes later a nice 10 pointer came out, and he made that 3.5 year old 8 pointer look really, really small. He honestly looked like an angus with horns, the muscle structure and his body where amazing, where as the 8 pointer just looked like a big deer.

[mrklean]

My guess diet and over guessing the age of the deer

[sticknstring]

Here's a pretty cool progression...

1 1/2 - 8 1/2 yrs old

Condensed

Interesting study...

Antler Aging

Very good information on genetics here

26 years of research

One more...

Check out Leroy

[Shoot2Kill]

Here's a pretty cool progression...

1 1/2 - 8 1/2 yrs old

Condensed

Another cool study...

Antler Aging

That is great - not only pay attention to the changes in the rack, but note the body size, holy cow.

[Mark Christianson]

I saw a super cool segment on Deer and Deer Hunting TV not long ago that was similar to that. They went through the life of a particular buck from being born till his natural death.

Granted, a deer in the wild is going to vary to some degree compared to a deer in captivity thats being fed meals, rather than fending for themselves. Situations could dictate greatly how a particular buck matures in the wild.

Very good illustration though that shows the basic progression.

[sticknstring]

Here's a note from the photographer...

Quote:

"These shots are all of the same buck, that's what makes them so unique and rare.

I made a promise to the caretaker of this private property that I wouldn't disclose the location where these shots were done so I can only tell you they are from the upper midwest.

After photographing this buck I became addicted to capturing him on film every fall. This area is one of the most difficult places to make good shots because it is all wooded and the overhead canopy keeps it dark until the leaves fall. Even then it is dark because the oak trees hold their leaves so late into the winter.

Compound this problem was the fact that this deer was almost totally nocturnal. He only came out during the daylight during the rut. It made for a nearly impossible task to get him on film.

He became my first "obsessesion deer." I spent all my savings just to purchase fast-enough lenses, sturdy-enough tripods, and the best silent cameras. For eight years I spent every fall, during the rut, trying to get usable images of him. I spent so much time at it that my career suffered; business-wise my time would have been spent much more wisely photographing more productive areas.

But it was a grueling, satisfying journey. This buck taught me a tremendous amount about whitetail behavior, physiology, biology and social dynamics, so much that in seven seasons I gained a lifetime of knowledge from him.

He's my favorite whitetail subject ever, not just for his tremendous antlers but for his brutishly "boss" look. He only had to throw a glance at other bucks to make them back down. He's probably the largest-bodied whitetail I've ever seen. If I've ever seen a 400-pound whitetail, he was it!

I only ever saw his rut personality because that was the only time I could ever observe him; I never got a picture of him when he wasn't either with a doe or chasing does. His pattern was to never leave the hot doe alone. As long as I didn't spook her, I could get photos of him, if there was enough light! And there were a lot of photos of him that had to be thrown in the trash because poor light made for an unusable image.

How'd he get this big? The property owners made a conscious decision not to harvest him if the chance arose, thank goodness they did because they allowed one of the greatest bucks ever to live to a ripe old age!"

--Bill Kinney

[96trigger]

Thats pretty wild, it looked like half elk. If you look at the pictures, I am going to say the LARGE majority of bucks in MN, even the largest ones, are maybe 4.5 years old. Most of them are more like 2.5 to 3.5 years old. That said, that buck was a freak of nature, I have never seen a buck with a neck that big, ever.

[slimngrizzly]

Yes, I would dare say that many hunters would be surprized to know that the monsters that grace the walls of their trophy room are only 3 1/2 years old, many still years away from their prime!

[Musky Buck]

I agree, a lot of people over guess the age of a deer, I personally when I have a question i mail the jaw into a DNR station I believe is in Madelia Minnesota. They age it for me. My 14 pointer was aged yesterday by 2 C.O's and they both agreed it was a 3 1/2 year old. In Ottertail county you can tell the 1 and a 1/2s. The 2 and a 1/2s. Gets a bit cloudier when they are 3 1/2 or older but there are so few past 3 1/2 years of age. The other year got a nice 11 pointer, 201 pounds dressed out, and age came back from Madelia at 2 1/2 years old. I had people guessing 4 to 5, but I knew it was younger although I thought it was 3 1/2. People get even more off line when they guess weight. Slimngriz is right on, these monsters rarely get a chance to become a monster because at 2 1/2 they already look nice especially compared to what hunters have seen for a few years, at 3 1/2 they look really big because it isn't every year you'll see a 3 1/2 with a rifle, bow hunting you get to see more of them or you should if you hunt prime land.

[Shoot2Kill]

Yes, I would dare say that many hunters would be surprized to know that the monsters that grace the walls of their trophy room are only 3 1/2 years old, many still years away from their prime!

Probably true in MN.

[sticknstring]

I'd say true across the country. Even more so in other states with better nutrition and winter stress. In one of BLB's links above it stated that in hunted areas, less than 2% of the deer population is older than 5 years of age. At current population levels, that would equate to roughly 24,000 animals. Less than half of those would be bucks. We'll say 10,000 for simplicity. Assuming they would all get shot with 500,000 hunters afield, each hunter would have a 2% shot at taking a mature buck. Most however would not get killed dropping one's odds to under a percentage point! Way too many factors to get technical on this, just crunching some quick numbers.

Quote:

The other year got a nice 11 pointer, 201 pounds dressed out, and age came back from Madelia at 2 1/2 years old.

I find that hard to believe... most yearlings are around 100-115lbs dressed. To put on that much weight in one season is nuts. But I've seen some pretty crazy things in mother nature - who knows anymore.

[AndyM]

Well.... The deer in question was dressed at 186#'s. I looked at the teeth and had my sister examine them,(she's a dental hygenist) she said that with the sharpness on some of the teeth, she said it was more than likely a 2 1/2year old deer. The teeth showed some wear, but not a whole lot. Needless to say I will not be shooting a basket rack again unless the belly is almost on the ground. Thanks for all the input and advice. I appreciate it. I'm going to start some serious QDM on the land I hunt and were my wifes cousin hunts as well. All in all that is about 350 acres. I will see what happens in the next couple years and hope it is a noticialbe difference. Thanks again.

[archerystud]

I know most if not all of my big bucks are 3.5 year olds.