The deal for ALLEN is agreed upon

[FISHINGURU]

i said all this in the beginning of march and went against the whole fishingmn board...glad the vikes were listening to me lol.

i'm not a tjack fan by no means but for anyone that hasn't seen improvement out of him hasn't watched or doesn't know much about football....there's only a small % of qb's that just can come in to the league and do real good...and when they do it's because they have a great surrounding cast.

tjacks recievers were horrid...we barely even played our best reciever rice until mid season...williamson was a pie stain...wade is a quality wr but definatly not #1 material which we were playing him....right when tjack and rice started hooking up rice got hurt.

if pie hole williamson could catch a cold tjacks numbers would of been pretty decent some of them games...add a 100 yards or more and a td or two in some of those games to his stats and they look respectable and would of resulted in a couple more wins also.

with berrian coming in we added a nice deep threat and a wr that still hasn't tapped all his skills...rice with some experience and he was showing flashes of being real good...wade in the slot...with our running game if u can't be a decent enough qb to get some wins you need to play tennis.

another factor is tapeh can catch out of the backfield and do some damage...also he is quick enough to get out in front on some screens.

we got the tools to go real deep in the playoffs this year...all we need is tjack to progress and manage a game...we don't even need much out of him...just enough for opposing teams to respect the pass and open things up for the true beast of nature peterson and taylor.

we got the best 2 headed monster in the game...best d line in the game which will make our pass D way better this year...we got what it takes....we just need people to stay out of trouble and hope for no big injuries.

wooooooooooooooooooooooooooo....i wonder when allen jerseys hit the shelves?

[lawdog]

 Originally Posted By: CodyDawg

Nice move. I like it. But how can we seriously think Super Bowl with TJack? I hope they have something else up their sleeve, cuz i dont see it. What does he have, 1 career 200 yard game? 1?

I agree T-jack needs to keep improving by leaps and bounds, but the precedent is there for a superbowl run with a weak QB. Didn't you watch the bears make it two years ago or the Ravens WIN it with TRENT DILFER of all people?!?!?!!!!!!! T-Jack can certainly play up to the level of Dilfer with some more progression. We have been building enough around him that he doesn't need to be a superstar, just steady and able to protect the ball.

[FISHINGURU]

exactly..just manage a game and let our running game and defense control the game...i mean if he actually steps up and is even a middle of the pack kinda qb this season we will be looking real good.

people wanted to bench eli manning in the middle of the season last yr but they stuck with him and ended up winning the superbowl...as u all seen it was a dominating defense that won that game...with 1 lucky play by the eli...even tjack could make 1 lucky play lol.

the good thing is tjack can't get any worse...i thought he played ok beside a couple of the dumbest plays i've ever seen but atleast he was trying to make something out of nothing...i know i'd hate to say hike and have 3 seconds to throw it to some pie hole that can't catch....once our recievers start making some plays tjack will be more confident...everyone knows how better you are at something when u get your confidence up.

i hope culpepper gets signed by greenbay then rodgers gets hurt in preseason and stinkpepper has to face the new purple people eaters!!

[SledNeck]

Stinkpepper, that would almost be funny if we had a QB even half as good as he was before he left.

[Craig Plummer]

I think Jared Allen was a good pick up for the vikes who were desperate for a solid pass rushing DE but I think we gave up too much to get him and let alone the contract that we gave him making him the highest payed DE in NFL history. Allen is a solid player but he most definately had his career year last year. I don't see him putting up those types of numbers again and think he broke the bank by restructuring a contract after that stellar year.

[Scott K]

07 Vikings season

1 Sep 09 ATL 3 @ MIN 24 FINAL

2 Sep 16 MIN 17 @ DET 20 FINAL

3 Sep 23 MIN 10 @ KC 13 FINAL

4 Sep 30 GB 23 @ MIN 16 FINAL

5 Bye

6 Oct 14 MIN 34 @ CHI 31 FINAL

7 Oct 21 MIN 14 @ DAL 24 FINAL

8 Oct 28 PHI 23 @ MIN 16 FINAL

9 Nov 04 SD 17 @ MIN 35 FINAL

10 Nov 11 MIN 0 @ GB 34 FINAL

11 Nov 18 OAK 22 @ MIN 29 FINAL

12 Nov 25 MIN 41 @ NYG 17 FINAL

13 Dec 02 DET 10 @ MIN 42 FINAL

14 Dec 09 MIN 27 @ SF 7 FINAL

15 Dec 17 CHI 13 @ MIN 20 FINAL

16 Dec 23 WAS 32 @ MIN 21 FINAL

17 Dec 30 MIN 19 @ DEN 22 FINAL

losses wk 2 by 3, wk 3 by 3, wk 4 by 7, wk 7 by 10 wk 8 by 7, wk 10 by 34, wk 16 by 11, wk 17 by 3

most of them losses were by 1 score or less, and we were in all of them except the Packer whopin!

I think by the players we picked up this year, we can atleast take them one score games and make them wins cant we? That would give us a 13-3 season.

[CodyDawg]

Hey, I like having a lively discussion on the vikes, but to say that i must not know much about football because of all the progression that TJack made is ludicrous. My football pedigree is plenty good for this analysis. if you wanna compare, let me know. Maybe you should detail all the progress he made. To blame it on Troy's half a dozen drops through the year is quite a stretch. And to say we are going to be ok this year with the addition of Berrian (who has never had a 1,000 yard season) and for the most part the rest of the our WR corp, then the WRs must not have been that bad, right? Does he have some potential? Possibly based on what we hear of him at practice, etc. Has he shown it in the games? Absolutely not. And if you wanna compare him to Eli, sure, lets do that. Eli has ups and downs. But notice I said UPS and downs. Not just downs. Dilfer was a completely different scenario, a veteran with an overpowering defense. i dont think we are quite ready to label the 08 Vikes defense the equivalent to the Ravens Def the year they won the SB with Dilfer.

[Scott K]

The game is won by big play makers. There is no rule that says the QB has to be a big play maker. Last year we didnt have much for play makers on our team (except a couple elite players). So the whole team looked bad. This year we added some more big play makers to the team, (Williams, Allen, Barrien, the return or Rice, Topeh) then with the growing of experience of the young players, (T-Jack, Rice, Allison) we should be a well improved team. All of these players will improve the team as a whole!

A poor defense last year hurt the offense, bad field positions, not willing to take chances because knowing the defense would give up alot of yards or a score, or even taking stupid chances trying to force things to happen because they know that the deffense will give up more points. All around we are alot better team then last year.

We are building our team around T-Jack, but if he doesnt work out, it will be alot easier to land a good veteran QB when we have some WR for him to throw to, offense line to protect him, and some elite running backs to open up the pass. I smell SB within 2 years, whether T-Jack is at QB or not!

[eyepatrol]

Didn't anyone hear what Steve Young and other qb's and coaches had to say about T-jack last year? T-jack couldn't even read and make completions against the easiest defensive formation there is to pass on! I can't remember exactly what the formation was, but putting 8 men in the box, Young said he could only dream of passing against defenses like that. And other coaches totally ripped on T-jacks mechanics. Not getting his feet set; squaring up on his passes; jumping and passing at the same time; just terrible mechanics. Those mechanics should have been learned in highschool and college. Shouldn't have to teach a qb basic mechanics of throwing passes in the NFL.

I try not and rip a young qb too much, but when you can't pass against 8 in the box and you don't even have good mechanics, it's hard to be a supporter. If it were me (which obviously it's not), I'd give him all of the pre-season and 6 games of the regular season to show me something. If he doesn't show noticeable improvement through 6 games, time to move on.

A team doesn't need a Tom Brady or Peyton Manning to win the super bowl. But rarely do teams win super bowls with less than average qb's. Yes, sometimes it happens (Dilfer), but not very often.

As for the Allen deal, I hope it works out. Giving up picks and lots of money for a guy that has a track record off the field. We'll see. I'm hopeful.

[walleyes12]

I am all for giving T-Jack a chance this year but its a make or break deal for him and childress

[echotrail]

With Allen wearing purple now the training camp scrimmages with the Chiefs should be more fun to watch this summer.

[Scott K]

 Originally Posted By: walleyes12

I am all for giving T-Jack a chance this year but its a make or break deal for him and childress

I agree with T-Jack if he doesnt do it this year, see ya! I think Childress is going to be here, I have liked alot of things he has done with the team in the last few years.

 Quote:

T-jack couldn't even read and make completions against the easiest defensive formation there is to pass on! I can't remember exactly what the formation was, but putting 8 men in the box, Young said he could only dream of passing against defenses like that.

Easiest deffense? 8 men going after the QB and not having a TE, or a reciever to catch the ball in the 2-3 seconds it takes for one or more of them 8 men to get to the QB doesnt seem to easy to me! It was blitz after blitz! How many QB's out there can complete many passes to recievers that cant catch the ball and only have 2-3 seconds to get open because the QB is getting sacked already?

If the opposing team had to cover the recievers instead of not having to worry about them, it would take some of them men away from blitzing, and give Jackson a few more seconds to find an open reciever!

[eyepatrol]

If Steve Young says he could only dream of throwing against those types of defenses on a regular basis, and he says it's the easiest defense to throw against (Emmit Smith agreed), then it must be easy. If anyone should know, Steve Young should.

So just a point of clarity, I'm not the one who came up with the word "easy". That comes from Steve Young himself last year.

[Scott K]

Steve Young never played a game without great WR's, or a great TE either. Do you think that the 49'ers were just lucky at the QB position all those years? Montana, Young, Bono. Or do you think it might have had something to do with the fact the recievers could catch the ball? Im not trying to take anything away from those QB's at all, but give them the recievers we had last year, how good would they have been?

Snap the ball, and withinn 3 seconds you had to scope out the field, and find a WIDE OPEN WR that might catch the ball, then make a clean pass before getting sacked. All in about 3 seconds, being a rookie !

[eyepatrol]

Well, tell that to Steve Young then. He never said you need great WRs to be successful against that type of defense. He just said QBs love to see those types of defenses because they're easy to pass against.

Since he's the pro and HOF'er, I'll take his word for it.

[PierBridge]

We dont need no stinkin QB to win it all......

No disrespect to the Steel Curtain but we now have the best Defensive front 4 in NFL history!!!!!!!

Go Vikes!

[CodyDawg]

TJack wasnt a rookie last year though. And if you want another comparison, how about our ol' enemy Brett Favre. He never had squat for WRs. And 3 seconds is about all you get in the NFL. Your first reads start before you get under center, more before you hike the ball and a few as the play starts. That is why Young said that stuff, it was easy reads and for an NFL QB, it should have been easy to burn those defenses. So, the reason he saw so many blitzes is that he couldnt ever beat the blitz. Do you know why teams dont continually blitz Tom Brady and Peyton and all the other good QBs? Cuz it wont be long before they get burned. A defense has to camo its blitz packages against the good ones. Not TJack though, TJack never burned them. Ever. So they kept doing it and there was no reason to change. The bottom line is, about 90% of being an effective QB is intelligence and TJack hasnt shown it yet.

So my statement stands. I like the Allen trade, but they have a glaring issue that has not been addressed. Although I do feel better about Gus than I did about the stiffs we had last year. Gus might be the average QB that could ride the wave of a great defense. remember what he did as a spot starter when DC got hurt? Heck, he threw more TDs in those 3+ games that TJack has in his career didnt he?

[Scott K]

To say T-Jack wasnt a rookie, you cant count starting one game, and filling in another, much experience. He has a total of one season under his belt. I dont care if Payton Manning, or Favre or Brady was in there, if they air it up and our recievers are bouncing around off each other, and the best chance of any of them to catch the ball is if you hit him square in the face mask and have it stick, they wouldnt do any good either!

I agree now that we have a few decent recievers, a good QB would be awsome to have, I would trade T-Jack for a good QB, the problem is there arent any game ready QB's on the market that can do much better then we have. Alot of Jacksons mistakes were stupid things that he can learn and improve on like any rookie. And I am not saying he is going to be an allstar, this is his make or brake year. He has no other excuse he has players to catch the ball. We just need to give him the chance!

[eyepatrol]

I completely agree with that. Give him the chance, but it certainly should be his make or break year. If he shows noticeable improvement, I'd be in favor of keeping him. He just has a LOT of areas to improve upon. Time will tell.

As for Childy, what he did when he first came on board, I liked. Help straighten up the players and organization. But, to me this is his make or break year for sure. Anything less than getting into the 2nd round of the playoffs would be a failure in my book. I'm not interested in a 1st round loss. We had plenty of that with Denny Green.

[SledNeck]

 Originally Posted By: eyepatrol

Didn't anyone hear what Steve Young and other qb's and coaches had to say about T-jack last year? T-jack couldn't even read and make completions against the easiest defensive formation there is to pass on! I can't remember exactly what the formation was, but putting 8 men in the box, Young said he could only dream of passing against defenses like that. And other coaches totally ripped on T-jacks mechanics. Not getting his feet set; squaring up on his passes; jumping and passing at the same time; just terrible mechanics. Those mechanics should have been learned in highschool and college. Shouldn't have to teach a qb basic mechanics of throwing passes in the NFL.

I try not and rip a young qb too much, but when you can't pass against 8 in the box and you don't even have good mechanics, it's hard to be a supporter. If it were me (which obviously it's not), I'd give him all of the pre-season and 6 games of the regular season to show me something. If he doesn't show noticeable improvement through 6 games, time to move on.

A team doesn't need a Tom Brady or Peyton Manning to win the super bowl. But rarely do teams win super bowls with less than average qb's. Yes, sometimes it happens (Dilfer), but not very often.

As for the Allen deal, I hope it works out. Giving up picks and lots of money for a guy that has a track record off the field. We'll see. I'm hopeful.

Yep I read that and It makes me wonder what Childress sees in him.

[Born2Fish]

I think what we need to remember is that even with that "horrible" qb we had last year we still almost made it to the playoffs. We had a defense that is not going to be as good as it will be this year. And I also think we keep forgetting about the Rookie Of The Year in Adrian Peterson! Neither the superbowl Ravens or Bears had a running back of Adrians potential. I think some would consider Vince Young a better QB than Jackson. But Young actually had about the same numbers as Jackson(touchdowns vs. interceptions). Now as far as Steve Young saying any qb would love to have 8 in the box to be able to throw against, sure they would. Especially if they had Adrian Peterson behind them. But how many ROOKIE qb's would love to have that? Im guessing not many with the receivers we had. I think we are going to do a LOT better this year both offensively and defensively. And who knows maybe Tjack will be hyped up by the additions of Berrian and Allen and really turn up the juice. But as was said now 100 times, all we need him to do is manage the game and not make as many mistakes as he has. Get him to do that and we might have a special team.

[Caesarfishinguytoo]

Hey guess who stats these are for his first 19 games!!

TDS - 11

INTS - 21

YPG - 169

QB Rating - 61

That is right - Steve Young

Now I ain't saying that TJack will ever go on to be even half the QB of Steve Young, but I say we give him a chance and see what he can do.

[WildCountry]

Culpepper and the Packers goin all the way this year! go Pack

Ya right..........

[CodyDawg]

I just dont understand how people can say we had such bad WRs last year but this year they will be great. Troyboy didnt even play all the games and he is replaced by Berrian. Correct me if I am wrong, but the Bears passing game wasnt exactly fearsome last year or the year before or the year before. AND THE BEARS JUST PLAIN LET BERRIAN GO! Is he an upgrade? sure. oh, and TJack was NOT a rookie. He had a couple of starts and had a full year of seasoning before last year. This is his 3rd year.

my take on last year is that AP is the real deal and single handedly won us a few games by sneaking up on people. As soon as teams figured out that you stack the box and take AP away and TJack is not capable of burning you, we went in the tank. Dont forget, Tice was 9-7 his last year here and Chili dog, who promised us we werent rebuilding, hasnt yet got a winning record. I see this team as close in some areas and miles away in others from being a serious contender.

[Rick]

I think Montana could have made those 3 second passes against those types of 8 man front defenses with the receivers we had last year and be very sucessful. He was uncanny that way.