End of the Venison Donation Program

[Scott M]

by Doug Smith, Star Tribune

Minnesota food shelves will halt distribution of venison donated by hunters after lead particles were discovered in ground venison at North Dakota food shelves.

Authorities urged that any donated meat that had already left the food shelves not be eaten.

The Minnesota venison will be tested for lead fragments.

Hunters donated about 78,000 pounds of venison last fall, the first year of the statewide program paid for by the state and hunter donations. Officials said they don't know how much already has been consumed.

Minnesota officials took the action after the North Dakota Department of Health told food pantries there Wednesday to throw out 4,000 to 5,000 pounds of donated venison after a physician found lead bullet fragments in 60 percent of the samples tested. Another 12,000 pounds of venison already has been distributed.

The doctor, William Cornatzer of Bismarck, N.D. -- an avid big-game hunter -- said hunters should reconsider eating any deer or big game shot with lead bullets from high-powered rifles.

Those bullets fragment on impact and can spread lead far beyond the entrance wounds, he said.

"This is very disturbing news that we found," Cornatzer said.

Deer killed with shotgun slugs or muzzleloader slugs shouldn't pose a problem because those slugs don't fragment, he said.

While the findings surprised state officials in North Dakota, Minnesota and Wisconsin, they also provoked some skepticism.

The National Shooting Sports Foundation, the trade association for the shooting, hunting and firearms industry, sharply criticized the North Dakota action.

"There is absolutely no peer-reviewed scientific evidence to support the unfortunate and unnecessary overreaction by health officials in North Dakota to have food pantries discard perfectly good meat because it was taken with traditional ammunition," the foundation said in a statement.

It said the decision "was based on a fundamental misunderstanding of the chemistry of lead and the human digestive system. The state is needlessly creating a scare upon hunters that has no basis in science."

In Wisconsin, the head of the venison-donation program expressed doubts, too.

"I thought it was preposterous that a bullet would leave that much residue," said Laurie Fike. "My feeling is the lead got in there some other way. I have a lot of questions."

She said state officials will discuss the situation today.

Wisconsin hunters donated 414,000 pounds of venison last fall to food shelves -- five times the amount in Minnesota. While Minnesota's program is new, Wisconsin's has been operating for years.

Cornatzer, 53, a dermatologist and professor at the University of North Dakota medical school in Grand Forks, said consuming lead is a problem.

"It's not rocket science, if you put it in your stomach, you absorb it," he said. "We know lead is a severe neurotoxin, especially in young children and women of child-bearing age."

"I'm a big-game hunter, and have been since I was 13," said Cornatzer, who has hunted deer, elk, antelope, caribou and musk-ox all over the world. "I'm eating this, and I fed this to my own children. This is terrible."

Concern began with condors

Cornatzer said he became concerned after hearing about possible lead fragments through his membership in the Peregrine Fund of Boise, Idaho, a group that promotes the conservation of birds of prey, including peregrine falcons and California condors.

The organization says lead from bullets in the carcasses of animals is primarily responsible for lead poisoning that has endangered the condors. (In July, California will ban the use of all lead ammunition by hunters in the condor's range.)

A lead bullet shot from a high-powered rifle "fragments into hundreds of tiny pieces," said Rick Watson, vice president and director of international programs for the Peregrine Fund. "Usually a hunter cuts away damaged meat, but the lead sprays through a large part of the animal," he said.

Bad news in CT scans

Cornatzer decided to look at the issue himself, so he acquired 100 pounds of donated ground venison, processed by a variety of meat processors. Dr. Ted Fogarty, chairman of the Department of Radiology at the UND medical school, did a high-definition CT scan of the meat in January.

"To be honest, I didn't expect to find much," said Cornatzer.

"Unfortunately, 60 percent of these one-pound packages had multiple lead fragments. The worst part: They are not metal fragments like a shotgun pellet, that you can feel. They are like lead dust that's in the meat. We're eating it."

He sent samples to a laboratory, which identified the samples as lead.

That was enough proof for him that a larger problem exists. He threw his venison away.

"It's not worth the risk," he said.

He said he's not worried the issue will be seized upon by anti-hunters, because there's a relatively simple solution.

"We hunters have a viable alternative -- we have bullets that don't contain lead and don't fragment. And they are proven to put down large-game species. We need to switch over to lead-free bullets."

Federal Cartridge Co. of Anoka referred questions to the National Shooting Sports Foundation.

Meanwhile, Roger Rostvet, a hunter and deputy director of the North Dakota Game and Fish Department, said Thursday he isn't sure what to tell hunters.

"We don't know if lead particles in wild game are a significant health issue in North Dakota," he said. "The Health Department feels it is."

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[BLACKJACK]

Sounds like a little overkill to me. I think some more sample testing needs to be done, and research into the seriousness of the intake of the very minute quantities of lead.

[charliepete2]

This guy is full of it. Americans have been eating game taken by rifles for hundreds of years without any effect. This guy probably has stock in some lead alternative. I feel yet another hand on the pocket book of the sportsman.

[big drift]

More likely he is pimpming the all copper Barnes bullett.

As far as slugs not fragmenting I have had that happen on a number of occasions.

I truly wonder what his alternative motives are in this case.

[89Bronco]

The first time I heard this on the news, I was skeptical. It smelled like a sabotage of the program. I thought it was a we'll take food, but not from hunters kind of person. I never thought of an anti-lead person. I also wonder what the real motives are.

[kkahmann]

Lets see--a condor is a great big bird--it wieghs what? Maybe 20lbs?--It eats a piece of lead shot--no harm--it has to eat several in order to get sick. I wiegh 200lbs--I gotta eat maybe 5?--10lbs to get the same effect? I eat a lot of moose meat--by my calculations I can expect to die from ingested lead shortly before my 340th birth day.

I think we need to get some qualified doctors and proffessors together and study this to the tune of several millon dollars--I'm living in fear here!!

[rowdyf]

 Originally Posted By: da_chise31

The doctor, William Cornatzer of Bismarck, N.D. -- an avid big-game hunter -- said hunters should reconsider eating any deer or big game shot with lead bullets from high-powered rifles.

Those bullets fragment on impact and can spread lead far beyond the entrance wounds, he said.

"This is very disturbing news that we found," Cornatzer said.

Deer killed with shotgun slugs or muzzleloader slugs shouldn't pose a problem because those slugs don't fragment, he said.

This guy obviously doesn't know what he's talking about. He's an AVID big game hunter and says that shotgun or muzzleloader slugs don't fragment? I've seen it happen with ML slugs. I echo big drift, what's his motive?

[wolkie]

This is crazy think of all the pheasant, grouse and partrige hunters I know i've had to spit out lead shot. My grandfather, my father all have been eating game for years upon years. I agree with Kkahmann you would have to ingest so much. According to some scientists we shouldnt even breathe.

[charliepete2]

Keep in mind this Doctor is a dermatologist. This guy was taking a break from popping zits and decided, "I think I'll test some donated venison to see how much lead it has in it".

[TrophyEyes]

If I think of all the BB's I have bitten into, fishing lures and weights I have held in my mouth and all the venison that I have eaten I should have been dead by my 20th birthday. Same with the mercury levels in fish. I eat too much walleye, I am going to die. Please...I will take it into consideration, but lets be realistic. The people that need this meat have bigger concerns than ingesting lead dust that may or may not be in the meat. Let's talk about what happens to people that starve or are unable to feed their children. What should we really be attacking here? Hunger or lead allogations? Next they are going to tell me the Ozone has a hole in it....The future looks pretty grim folks...I think we should all just go hug a tree and become vegans. I wonder if they will take archery killed deer? Someone will probably find something wrong with that too.

[big drift]

NSSF Statement on Discarding Venison in North Dakota and Minnesota

For more than a century, hundreds of millions of Americans have safely consumed game harvested using traditional hunting ammunition. There is absolutely no peer-reviewed scientific evidence to support the unfortunate and unnecessary overreaction by North Dakota and Minnesota health officials, based on an unpublished study by a local dermatologist, to have food pantries discard perfectly good meat because it was taken with traditional ammunition. Furthermore, we question whether a dermatologist is even qualified to render these opinions, particularly in light of the absence of any scientific findings published by qualified experts. No systematic scientific or epidemiological evidence exists in the scientific literature to support conclusion that there is a human health exposure risk. The dermatologist study does not scientifically establish the existence of a health risk. For example, there is no blood test to show whether anyone who consumed venison acquired at a food panty has elevated lead levels, let alone that the venison was the source. The decision to take nourishing, high-protein food out of the mouths of the needy was based on a fundamental misunderstanding of the chemistry of elemental lead and the human digestive system. The state is needlessly creating a scare upon hunters that has no basis in science. We strongly urge North Dakota and Minnesota health officials to reconsider their decision and for other states to base their public policy decision on sound science.

[sticknstring]

Great statement.

Would be sad to end a great program before it even it really took off...

Reminded me of that that ruling back in the fall which restricted hunters from transporting waterfowl back from Canada and filling dumpsters with perfectly good meat which if not shot, would've flown into the states anyhow. Stupid.

[Roofer]

They are whacked. There is lead in everyones body, but not enough to kill you.

On a side note, I never really supported this program. Mainly because I know people personally who supposedly "trophy" hunt, but they never process or eat the meat. They just give it away and shoot another one. That is not being a sportsman in my book.

[harvey lee]

I will continue to eat my venison. Nuf,said.

[fisherking01]

I think the state's health depts should be sued for loss of the product, as well as the cost to get it to that point. Pure crybaby junk that led to this. If 60 percent of the samples tested were contaminated, he is the one who comtaminated them, not a lead bullet. that's not possible.

[Gordie]

I saw some thing on this on the news and another scare tactic. they stated that if you injest lead you could get lead poison ,well I dont think the lead contaminates the meat unless the lead is stuck in the piece your eating. so with that said I guess its head shots only.

I not going to stop eat venison, no way

[Capt. Don*]

I would hate to think that the passive attitude to banning lead shot for upland game in Minnesota could of had an impact on this decision. I certainly hope not, but can't help but wonder. Oh well, maybe they will come up with an alternative to the spendy Barnes X copper bullet, possibly a steel bullet that will kill just as well. Hopefully the existing gun barrels won't be damaged by the alternative, but if it does, we can all bolster the economy and start replacing our guns with new ones. Or on the other hand, bowhunters won't care because it won't affect them...for now anyway.

[Saw557]

At the risk of creating waves I would like to say I TOLD YOU SO!!!! I've been trying to raise #@@% about the lead shot ban and have been getting no where. People just seem to think it won't affect them and non-tox loads will come down in price once lead is banned. And now this lame story about the donated vension I have to wonder about this guy who states he belongs to a group that supports the Condor lead ban in CA I smell a rat. The anti's have been trying to get our guns for a hundered years and they can't so now they are going to ban and price us out of our ammo end result is all the same.You can call me paranoid if you want but I see it happening. Even if you may not agree with the lead shot ban for upland hunting or don't think it will affect you don't kid yourself it will once they get thier foot in the door it WILL lead to a total ban on lead just look to CA for proof. I don't know what the answer is the DNR has accepted the upland lead ban with little or no proof and they admit it saying "it seems like the right thing to do" and it doesn't seem like they are going to back down. It's time to nip this in the bud before we end up like CA

Scott

[MarkAlm]

say!! do you think they could send me a 100#'s or so , i do not have any venison in my freezer but i would enjoy it like any other i've had before . just let me finish pouring some more lead jigs first.

[mrklean]

This is all a bunch of [PoorWordUsage], some crack pot just trying to stir up some problems for no reason, everyone trying to stick it to the hunters. Hate to see this program go away

[big drift]

Now here is a study that makes sense...Iowa approved the venison for food shelters.

http://www.iowadnr.gov/news/08apr/lead.html

[mrklean]

Thats a pretty good article, hopefully will ignor the guy from ND

[snapcrackpop]

Lead poisoning is real. It’s effects on children and pregnant women can be devastating. Do not dismiss the reason for concern.

What I think the real problem that has been exposed is how some lockers handle the donated meat. I butcher my own meat for quality control. Sure, if too much complaining or regulations are put in place, many locker plants might refuse to help out. But if they are throwing chunks of bloody meat with holes in it into the grinder, it is very likely this would happen.

[BradB]

In the Minnesota program all donated deer have to be processed by a USDA approved locker. I assume that these facilities don't just throw everything into the grinder, and are prevented from doing so via regulation.

It was good to see some concentration data in the Iowa story, which was different than the NoDak one. Until this story all I've seen is conjecture. Even the Peregrine fund pictures are meaningless, without concentration data and dose calculations.

[snapcrackpop]

What I didn't like about the ND story is how the Dept. of Health took this dermatologists word and then threw away all of the meat without looking at it themselves. At least that's how I read the story.

You can't tell me that some meat lockers (USDA approved or not) are going to be "less picky" than others. I think this guy found hamburger that had ground up(missed) bullets in it.