Effects of spearing?

[FishOn!]

I really dont want to start a war here. I took a look at the spearing forum, and I cant believe the quality and quantity of pike in the pictures on there. Some folks were saying things like "I got my limit today, and im going back out this weekend again." It made me wonder what others think about the effects spearing has on our pike populations. I didnt want to anger the spearers and post this on their thread, but it would be nice to hear opinions from both sides. thanks.

[bassNspear]

Im interested to hear it as well!!

[FishOn!]

I want you to know Im not trying to be rude here. Please try to keep opinions open minded and informed. Im just wondering what the general consensus is. And like I said i didnt want this to be one sided, as im sure it would have been in the spearing forum. Im thinking mainly spearers would be sharing opinions.

[bassNspear]

no i understand, everyone has the feelings about it!! And i for one, have no worries talking about it. The fact is, spearing is a sport that alot of people dont believe in, and the reason they dont i becuase they always think that we as spear fisherman just go out and throw the spear, well thats not true. Thats the same feeling then as a fisherman going out for crappies, and taking to many home.

There is also some spearing Lingo out there, that im sure alot of people dont know, but there are some guys out there that say they got there limit, when they mean they seen there limit, not throwing the spear, but jus seeing the fish. There are times what i go out and spearing all day and see fish all day long, but not throw the spear.

I understand that you are feelings about this, as well as everyone else, but you cant dis the sport untill you get out and try it, becuase i GARRENTEE, that if you get out and try it, you will want to do it again. Mark My WORD.

[tisosy11]

Nothing wrong with spearing...i don't enjoy it because i get bored, but i have no issue with it.

[FishOn!]

I believe you on that. I know it may have felt like I was dissing the sport, but I wasnt trying to. I just love catching Northerns and the ratio of spearing to catching large northerns seems awfully one sided. and since you cant release a speared pike, it seemed as though it would affect the lakes population. But as you stated, you dont always throw the spear. I would love to watch those big northerns, from a spear shack, but wouldnt need to spear one being that I probably wouldnt eat it. No need to kill one and let it go to waste. Thanks for not getting too offended and answering honestly!

[Central Bassman]

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[FishOn!]

Wow! Like I said, I was interested in hearing peoples opinions on the subject. ...from both spearers, and people who dont spear(but dont necessarily have anything against it.)

[Jackpine Rob]

You will see some pictures of real quality fish from the guys who spear a lot. These are not your average fishermen - but guys who have spent some time and effort into studying northerns and how things work out. Its been my observation that those few who cling to the sport are pretty serious about the game, and tend to be a little better or at least more knowledgeable about northerns than the average bear.

We took a fish cop out with us one day many years ago - a guy who had never speared but wanted to see what it was all about. He was fascinated with the experience, spent several hours playing with the decoys, and was absolutely dumbfounded at the fish we decided to take that day. The lake we were on that day has some quality fish, but waaaaayyyy too many hammerhandles. We concentrated on pulling out our limits of little ones, and let the big ones go. It was our primitive version of QNM (quality northern management).

Fishermen can be a jealous lot, and get their shorts in a bundle when they see someone who is successful on a regular basis. The fact of the matter is, there aren't a lot of guys who actually understand slimers - at least the big ones - and consequently many guys go through their lives without ever tangling with a 4 foot plus fish. Those fish are out there, and there are many more in the 3 foot range. Its a matter of putting your mind to it and spending the time and effort to gain the knowledge.

My darkhouse hasn't been set up in 2 years now - a casualty of kids/kids sports/work. However, the last time I was out on a little metro area lake was one of the funniest and yet saddest I have ever spent. Jr. and I pounded our hole through, got set up and spent the morning watching hammerhandles attack the various decoys we had made. Threw the spear twice - got supper - and then concentrated on testing out some prototype decoys.

It was a great time!

Of course, into every life a little rain must fall.... We left for lunch, came back and went back to our testing, but in the meantime a "real sportsman" had shown up. This guy was a piece of work - making snide comments about what we were up to, setting his portable up a carefully measured 10 feet from us...

I'll admit, I was a little miffed. What happened next was absolutely unbelievable. This guy grabs his auger and proceeds to drill a series of holes completely around us. I asked him what he was up to - and he said "REAL FISHING A@@H0(#" and went back to drilling.

We packed our stuff up - collapsed the house - loaded things onto our tobaggans, and went to walk home. His farewell to us is something that Jr. still paraphrases whenever we see someone with more attitude than brains. Since this is a family site, I won't even attempt to clean it up.

What we laughed about as we walked back home was the fact that we had seen and messed with more fish that day than that poor slob was likely to see in his lifetime. We took two, and left the rest totally unscathed and not stressed.

I fish. I spear. Neither is superior. Both can have an impact.

[bassNspear]

the fact of the matter is, that everyone is going to have a opinion, there is no doubt about it!

Please keep it civil!!

[Central Bassman]

?

[Scott M]

Try reading "Recreational Darkhouse Spearing for Northern Pike in Minnesota: Historical Changes in Effort and Harvest and Comparisons with Angling"

Here is the abstract:

Abstract.—A traditional form of harvest for northern pike Esox luciusduring winter is darkhouse spearing through the ice. Using a comprehensive evaluation of creel surveys and license sales in Minnesota, we document a long-term decline in this unique sport fishery. The decline in recreational spear fishing effort cannot be blamed on catch rates because spearing catch rates have not changed perceptibly with time. Catch rates for spearing (mean = 0.175 fish/h) are similar to harvest rates by anglers that are targeting northern pike. Conflicts between spearers and anglers have led to questions about relative harvests by each group and their effects on northern pike populations. Creel survey data since 1980 show that summer and winter angling account for most of the northern pike harvest. Spearing accounted for 15% of the average yield of northern pike by number, but spearing is selective for the larger fish.In comparison with population estimates, spearing removes a small proportion of the total population and biomass of northern pike but an increasing proportion of fish with increasing size. Recreational angling, by comparison, removes an even greater proportion of all fish sizes in a population. Management designed to improve the size structure of northern pike populations will need to be directed at reducing harvest by all methods.

You'll have to forgive some of our more vocal spearers. Understand that it is a pretty hot topic and feathers do get ruffled. However I believe if you are looking for the effects you would best be suited in taking your question to your local DNR fisheries office. They may be so kind as to loan you this Pierce and Cook (2000) article.

Good luck.

[FishOn!]

I really didnt realize what I was getting into here! I didnt know it was already beat to death! SORRY GUYS! Look, I was honestly just curious. But curiosity will often get you in trouble! Sorry for offending a few of you more sensitive folks. Thanks to those who answered respectfully. And Jackpine, thats really too bad that you ran into someone like that. I also didnt want to come off as jealous in any way. Ive caught some nice northerns in my time, and wouldnt object to trying spearing at some point.

[bassNspear]

I understand that people have thoughts about this topic, and i was going to post what Da posted, but i was having problems finding it.

Fact of the matter is, everyone thinks that spearing is a sport to go out and get the biggest, and its not. Its about getting out, seeing fish, and understanding what its like in the lake with all the fish. Now that you have a understanding about it, you will see it for yourself if you do try it.

[Bassman55]

I have never speared, but I have seen a few videos of it and my friend does it alot. It looks awesome. I don't have the time to get into it right now, but I have nothing against it. It has only been legalized in ND for a few years but it hasn't seemed to affect the pop. of fish or large fish too much. The tip-up fisherman take many more than the spearers.

[ZEEK1223]

This has always been a sensetive topic in minnesota. It almost has a political feel to it, like pro choice or pro life. Either way I feel if the fish are harvested within the guide lines set up by the dnr, then I dont see a problem with it. That being said personally I get the same rush releasing a big fish as I do landing it.

[MattL]

I speared a few years ago in high school when I had more time. I thought it was a very fun and challenging sport. The way I see it if it is done within the means of the law it is ok. I believe in selective harvest and I often times passed up fish bigger than 30" with my goal being in the 28-30" range. Obviously it is tough to tell that in the water, but I always stayed legal, I never even speared my 3 fish limit ever. I don't think it is any different than running a couple tip ups in a day and catching several fish and releasing some of them, possibly mortally wounding a portion of them in the process. I will tell you the biggest fish I saw was about 15 pounds (which I chose to pass on) it was the biggest adrenaline rush ever, much like a 150 class buck walking right under your stand, something I wouldn't experience while fighting a fish like that on a rod or a tip up. I guess to each his own, but I respect the sport and hope to get back into it after college.

[SpearPike]

How many fish are killed when they are gut hooked tip up fishing? LOTS and people think just becuase they go back down the hole they are conservationists and not affected the population. I speared 2-3 times a week all winter and only took my limit 2 times and have passed on 20 limits.

[blue_healer_guy]

I was on a 300 acre lake this past winter and there must have been 100 tip ups out. Most fisherman will say, the northerns must be running. If there was 100 darkhouse out, those same fisherman would say, those dam spear guys are taking all the northerns.

[sparcebag]

 Originally Posted By: FishOn!

I really didnt realize what I was getting into here! I didnt know it was already beat to death! SORRY GUYS! Look, I was honestly just curious. But curiosity will often get you in trouble! Sorry for offending a few of you more sensitive folks. Thanks to those who answered respectfully. And Jackpine, thats really too bad that you ran into someone like that. I also didnt want to come off as jealous in any way. Ive caught some nice northerns in my time, and wouldnt object to trying spearing at some point.

Fish I dont spear But I think I'd classify it as selective harvest,unlike angeling,spearers choose their take.I've no problem with it.Even if it took days to get my once a year BAKING FISH 10-14 lbs angeling I harm too many smaller fish.

[Sandmannd]

I don't see a problem with it. It's leagal and I think most, especially the folks on here, do it the proper way and don't go take their limit everyday. I'm sure fish get hurt with gut hooking and all. Let them spear, I don't know that I have the patience, but it looks cool.

[B420]

I think that one of the common misconceptions people have is that if you set up the dark house, the 20lb.er's just line up under your house waiting to get speared.

Maintaing a spearhouse (chipping out the hole, rebanking, moving etc.) is also a chore that has to be done on a regular basis. I choose to spear on hammer handle waters and avoid big pike waters because I personally have no need for a northern over 5lbs. unless it is a monster that is going on the wall.

I musky fish all summer and spearing fills that void for me during the hardwater months. It's also a rush working the fish in, getting the spear into position carefully, and making the shot. If done responsibly, spearing can have positive effects on the fishery by removing the abundant hammer handles. Now that you can angle and spear at the same time, I stick a treble in my live decoy and try to hook any big ones that come by so I can CPR them.

[blackdog1101]

I've never been, would love to try it. I think the tradition and history of northern spearing is great. I've even carved my own decoy. Maybe next winter before the ice gets too thick.

[glenn57]

fishon, you really dont need to apologize so much for bringing up this topic in my opinion. i just read all the responses and a lot of good, honest sportsman gave you there opinion. fact is its legal and a great sport. i spear, cant you tell, i live for first safe ice to spear. it is totally awesome just to watch fish go on about there business under the ice. thats the best part, and all the spearers i know spend more time watching than seeing how many they can put on top of the ice.

[BobT]

My dad enjoyed spearing northerns. I spent some time with him in the dark house and in my experience it was not a very active means to catch fish. There were many days spent with no luck. There were days when he saw fish but they were flashes as they slammed his decoys. Truly rare were the times they came in and just sat there long enough to get an opportunity. Even then I learned the hard way that there is quite a talent involved. It's not as easy as one might think because those fish are quite edgy and easily spooked.

I personally don't spear but I don't have any problems with those that do. We can spend just as much time searching for northerns with our hook and line as they do with their spear. In fact, we are far more mobile than they are. It's not easy cutting a 4 sqare foot hole every time you want to move the house.

One difference I'd like to point out. Spear fisherman are usually much more selective than the rest of us because they can't catch and release. What they catch is dead. What we catch and release don't always survive and so we just may be more of a problem than they.

Bob