FL-20 vs LX-5 FACTS ONLY

[Willy]

Sorry about that, I did not know that. The 489 price I was going by the ultra pack as that was the best one they had available and closer to the cases marcum has.

[Jon Hanson]

429.00 at cabela's.

[Pulling-M-In]

 Originally Posted By: Lusid

Just buy whatever's cheapest at the time, I think both are great units.

funny you say that i got my FL20 last winter at the bargain cave for 300 bucks. said the thing was used but i opened the box and everything was still in its wrappings, i couldn't believe it. i have fished with both units and i love both of them as well. LX-5 just seems to be to computerized, like the screen lags a bit to much. but in the end, if that LX5 would have been on that shelf for 300 instead of the 20 id probably be using a Marcum.....Probably

[blueroof]

 Originally Posted By: Pulling-M-In

LX-5 just seems to be to computerized, like the screen lags a bit to much.

If I could pick up a fl20 for $300, I might even have picked one up myself. As far as the LX-5 being slow, you should all know that them Marcum folks use slow electrons in their machines... that's why the units have a lower suggested retail price over the guys that use fast electrons...

Here is some info that has been bandied around various corners of the internet (PLEASE DISPROVE IT IF POSSIBLE):

**********COPY AND PASTED TEXT****************

The receiver is way outdated on the Vexilar units as for the most part the internal components on a Vexilar are pretty much 25 year old technology. To my knowledge and testing, the only thing that has changed in Vexilar is the cosmetics and the "digital zoom". more on this later....The low power mode and suppression cable are the band-aids to make the unit work. For the guys that have a vexilar with a low power mode or s-cable, try this.... Set your unit on a table and place a hard object under the transducer on the floor. Turn your unit on and your gain all the way down. Almost everyone of the Vexilars I have used new and old will still give you a signal picking up the object on the floor. Now, if the receiver is properly designed, you should be able to turn the gain down and completely remove the signal. It kind of works like the volume on your tv. I want to be able to turn the volume all the way down to where the tv is 100% mute. On a MarCum, when you turn the gain down to 0, there is nothing being transmitted onto the screen. This is all being done without any low power or s-cable..It is better engineering and technology.

Power is everything. It creates a stronger cleaner signal right from the beginning. The stronger and cleaner the signal you send out, the stronger and cleaner a signal is received. Sonar works like a ball being thrown against a wall. Throw it hard and it bounces right back to where it came from. Throw it soft and it may bounce and roll close to where it came from.

So, if you have a strong signal being sent out, the capability of the interference rejection working better is a lot higher due to a cleaner, truer signal. Target separation is greatly increased and being able to see things in the weeds is very easy. Along with all of this, distortion is kept at a bare minimum giving you a better clearer picture on your dial.

If low power is better, why do all lowrance, raytheon, humminbird, etc....boat units strive for the most power they can get.

Touching back on the zoom....When MarCum uses the zoom, they use an optical zoom. It actuall increases the target separation to less that 3/4 of an inch. On a Vex, they use a digital zoom that just blows up the already 2.65" target separation onto the opposite side of the screen.

here are some tests that were done with some very sophisticated equipment.

MarCum Technologies LX5 VS: Vexilar FL20

Receiver sensitivity : Receiver sensitivity is the measurement of a sonar receiver’s ability to detect an input signal. This measurement tells just how small of a return signal the unit is able to pick up and display. The LX5’s receiver is more sensitive.

Measurement:

LX5- 24uV

FL20- 40uV

Receiver Gain: Receiver gain is a measurement of the total system gain or amplification. Typically the more gain a receiver has the smaller signal it will be able to detect. The LX5 receiver has more gain.

Measurement:

LX5- 89.77db

FL20- 70.89db

Receiver distortion: Receiver distortion is a measurement of the sonar receiver to filter, amplify, detect, and display a return signal. A receiver with less distortion will give a more accurate display. The LX5 has less distortion.

Measurement:

LX5- less than 1%

FL20- more than 40%

Transmitter power: Transmit power is a measurement of the output power into the transducer. This is usually defined in Watts peak to peak or Watts RMS. In the sonar world more power means a better return signal with less noise and less filtering. The LX5 has more power.

Measurement:

LX5- more than 2000 Wp-p or 300 Wrms

FL20- more than 400 Wp-p or 50Wrms

Conclusions: The LX5 surpasses the FL20 in every sonar measurement that was made. With these measurements it becomes clear that the LX5 is a superior product in respect to its receiver/transmitter design. These measurements were made on off the shelf units using an industry standard tester.

What this means to the ice fisherman is that with the LX5 you will get a clearer, less distorted picture of what’s below the transducer. We at MarCum believe that these measurements reflect what LX5 users have been seeing on the ice. The MarCum Technologies LX5 is truly the best and this can be backed up and verified by scientific measurements.

Duane Cummings

Chief Sonar Engineer

MarCum Technologies Inc.

********COPY AND PASTED TEXT***********

[CB34]

I know I am off of the "facts" with this so if you dont care dont read it.

Call me old fashioned but all I need out of a sonar unit is an idea of wether or not fish are down there the rest is up to me. After reading the last post I would have to give it to Vexilar. They have not had to design new components for 25 plus years and still sell a unit at the same price as Marcum. That being what it is, the facts dont lie and the technology is probably better in the Marcums but I still fall back on the fact that I need a simple unit to do a simple job. I dont need something that has more electrical components to go bad. I personally dont know which one I would by next just my rant.

[fishorgolf]

CB34,

Your statement " They have not had to design new components for 25 years and still sell a unit at the same price as marcum" makes no sense at all. If this is true shouldn't the vexliar sell for much less because it is 25 year old technology?

Also..the marcum is the simplest unit I have ever used.

[Jon Hanson]

[Note from admin: Please read forum policy before posting again. Thank you.]

[jerkbait]

This forum is sponsered by both Vexilar and Marcum!!!

[jerkbait]

Spazzums, are you ever going to tell us what you bought?

[Kyle Sandberg]

a

[Jimmy from Cottage Grove]

You keep talking about this HSOforum is sponsered by marcum. Who cares who it's sponsered by. I guarantee you that the sponsers have nothing to do with the stuff you hear on the HSOforum. I guess if you really believe that, it shows your lack of inteligence!!!!!! GET OFF IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Shack]

K Dawg,

I see it in the main banner above this page and every page in the ice fishing area display a Vex. advertisement. If you go and click refresh about 7-15 times, you will get to it. The advertisement changes every time your click to another page or refresh. It links you right with Vexilar.com

[fishorgolf]

I am paid my Marcum? If so I am still waiting for my check. What a ridiculous comment.

I have never found any bias on on this forum only people expressing there opinions. And very good ones most of the time I might add.

[Rick]

MarCum and Vexilar are both sponsors here and it wouldn't matter if they were or not. They both have their good points and those would be expressed here EITHER way.

We do thank Vexilar and MarCum for helping provide this venue to share good friendly information.

Please keep it friendly and let's get back on topic which is

"FL-20 vs LX-5 FACTS ONLY".

Thanks much.

[10,000 Casts]

First off, both companies make very good flashers and I believe that you should get the one that fits you.

Sencondly,

 Quote:

The stronger and cleaner the signal you send out, the stronger and cleaner a signal is received.

Duane, could you please talk about why Marcum has to have so much power, I was under the impression that Vexilar holds the patent on the way that they can send and recieve a signal meaning that they collect 100% of what they have sent down in their ping and Murcum can only collect less than half of the power that they sent down cause them to shout very load and cause interference yet hear less than 1/2 of what was sent.

Am I wrong?

I was also under the impression that Vexilar held the patent on the float system and thats why everyone else has to have the arm system.

For me, I have used both quite a bit and the longer battery lifeon the FL18 was the kicker. It's the old Ford vs Chevy mentality.

Thanks for the reply Duane,

[eyepatrol]

I think the facts have been pretty well laid out in this discussion thread. One fact that I'd point out, which I believe has been touched on already and I'm sure you are aware of, is you are looking at the upper-echelon of units from both manufacturer. The best they have to offer. And either way you go, Marcum or Vexilar, you're gonna be happy.

One of the previous posters said it well I think.....each unit will show you the fish, after that it's up to you to get them to connect.

Good luck with whichever unit you decide to get! Some day I hope to have either one of these.

[Huey]

 Quote:

Your statement " They have not had to design new components for 25 years and still sell a unit at the same price as marcum" makes no sense at all.

It's not a strong argument, but I think CB is pointing out that the Hondex/SiTex/Vex has been successfully used for about 25 years and that says a lot. Kinda like the .30-06. There are a 100 rifle shells that have are "better". Better energy at 200yds, less wind drift, less drop at 100 yds, etc. but the 100 + yr old .30-06 is probably the most popular and most successful rifle shell around because it works so well. Not always the "best" though by different measures though.

I agree about the price though. With every other electronics, i.e. digital cameras, they get better and cheaper by the year. An FL-8 has been selling for about the same price for almost 20 yrs. I'm glad Marcum is around. Maybe with the competition we will get a better product at a lower price. No matter what we brand choose.

I still miss my Zercom, that got ripped off. Ha, ha....

[blueroof]

 Originally Posted By: 10,000 Casts

Duane, could you please talk about why Marcum has to have so much power, I was under the impression that Vexilar holds the patent on the way that they can send and recieve a signal meaning that they collect 100% of what they have sent down in their ping and Murcum can only collect less than half of the power that they sent down cause them to shout very load and cause interference yet hear less than 1/2 of what was sent.

Am I wrong?

First off, I apologize for kicking this dead horse back to the top. Secondly, (John) I apologize for not making it clear that Duane Cummings did not post the info. I posted the info and am in no way affiliated with Marcum. I've seen those specs posted on various forums in M vs. V debates a number of times. I've posted it previously on this forum too. I'm pretty sure Duane wrote it, I believe last year I found the original post on another ice fishing forum - I HAVE NEVER SEEN THE INFO DISPELLED OR QUESTIONED. If someone from Vexilar and/or Marcum could chime in about it, I would be very pleased. I would love to see specs (like those) published by both companies, that is were the truth behind the debate falls.

As per your claim the Vex's receive 100% of the output signal, that is physically impossible - you would need a receiver that encompassed the entire range of the reflected signal and re-integrate that.

From my understanding the output power of a ducer helps cut to the chase. A powerful signal allows you to have a more dynamic input range (what you see on your flasher.) With good power and your gain set low, reflections from softer weeds and other mystery obstacles can fall under the receivers sensitivity threshold more easily (determined by your gain dial.) A powerful signal can cut through weeds and still provide enough feedback (reflected signal) so you can have your gain set low and see the bottom, and hopefully your lure and fish. Does it scare fish, probably, luckily for us most aren't too bright.

One further point. Shouting loud doesn't cause interfernce. Interference is interference. Sound of any power level can be clean (uniform frequency) or dirty (cluttered frequency), depending on the quality of the electronics...

It all comes down to the quality of the output, the sensitivity of the receiver and the fidelity of the gain. How the info is displayed plays a part too, but that all comes after the others - that's where the bell's and whistles like flat wide angle viewable screens and super fine line come into play.

LB

[brian6715]

So if you guys are satisfied with 25 year old technology, what year is your computer from?

[CNY-Kyle]

This is hilarious! You know Vex uses old technology, you know its overpriced, but will argue to the death that Vex is still better or whatever then Marcum....It makes absolutly no sense!

I buy what works the best for my money....if Vex had a unit that worked better, and was pirced equallivant, I would most likely own one of them!

Its not brand loyality its basic common sense!

When you guys buy a house for 100K, do you look for one with leaking windows, no insluation, old appliances and fixtures, or would you Look for the BEST most modern house you can buy for that money?????

Why would it be any different with you fishing equipment!

[CSP88]

 Originally Posted By: CNY-Kyle

Its not brand loyality its basic common sense!

Must be a lot of guys that fished the NY tourney with no common sense, as I'd guess Vexilar dominated the flasher count in this tournament.

What I don't understand is how if you are a mar cum user why some can't fathom that a lot of people still use and think the Vexilar is the cat's meow. It all boils down to personal preference. Just because people don't agree with your choice of flasher that makes them fools???

Chad

[CNY-Kyle]

Oh im sure they did in numbers...

Marcum did end up on top tho, and on top at the 07' nationals, not that really has anything to do with the unit, in a tournement setting its more about the fisherman standing in front of the unit.

When does number of vex/marcum in a tourney dictate ones common sense...

Vex has been around much longer so theres going to be more in the field.

I have a feeling as you see people start to replace based on age, you will see numbers change rapidly...

[CNY-Kyle]

Sorry Chad didnt see the second part....

I for sure dont think anyone is a fool for using one unit over the other, if it came off like that i appoligize.

What I was getting at is that when analyzing the information to make a judgement on buying/Choosing a new unit, i wouldnt base my judgement on brand, but more so on the technology and what people are saying about the units im considering.

[CSP88]

 Originally Posted By: CNY-Kyle

I have a feeling as you see people start to replace based on age, you will see numbers change rapidly...

Only time will tell......

Chad

[fishorgolf]

Some people just can not stand the fact that the $500.00 they just paid for a flasher may not be the best available for that money.

That said there is absolutly NOTHING wrong with either of these units and they will serve the owners well!!!