Tip-Downs, Deadsticks, Rod Rockers...?

[McGurk]

I have heard these talked about in different ways and targeting different species, but I still haven't seen these tactics in person. Actually, I guess I don't really grasp the concept on this at all. Could someone please do a quick and dirty lay-man's-terms write up on these? I guess Walleye and Crappies would be targeted species, if they apply. I have the jigging styles down (at least down OK; need more practice) and am looking for another method for the arsenal. I'm more interested in technique than product pushing, too. Thanks in advance.

[blueroof]

McGurk, I use deadsticks with a jig and minnow, or plain hook and minnow when the bite is working that way. Basically you look for a little tip bend or action and grab the pole and set the hook. Pretty much a bobber setup without the bobber. Depending on how the fish are biting, you'll either have one on, or not. I use tipdowns when the bit is a bit more finicky. I set the tipdown to drop the rod tip at slightest bump. When a fish bumbs the bait, the rod tip drops feeding slack, basically you give it an ol' one, two mississippi and then set the hook. Rod rockers are somewhere between a plain deadstick and a tipdown, when a fish hits the tip drops, but doesn't stay down as a tip down does.

Tip downs are hard to set for real light bites when outside unprotected, the wind will set it off. You have to adjust it a bit harder and go from there. The clam tipdowns I use are adjusted by sliding the fishing pole up or down in relation to the bracket. Hope this helps. LB

[Duffman]

It's sorta like bobber fishing without a bobber. That way you can still jig with the rig, and then set it on whatever set-up you have (I use some Rock n Reels)and let the bait do the action.

Depending on how sensetive your balancing setup is, you can tell exactly what the minnow is doing, be it swimming down or up. I like using them for crappies, 'eyes, and stream trout. Most times the rod will dip down when a fish takes the bait, but every once in a while the rod tip will tip up indicating a fish. I haven't used a bobber ice-fishing in over 7 years, none of that re'adjusting bobber stops and other hassles associated with bobbers anymore.

With deadsticking, you rely more on the action of the rodtip to tell when a fish is on while it's sitting in a solid rod holder.

[looneyducer]

Good descriptions.

Have you ever noticed how often you get hits when you lay your rod down and go to do whatever? Basically that's deadsticking, except when you go about doing it on purpose you can buy rods specifically designed for that. They go from stick to noodle in short order so you can see the fish bite and still manage to set the hook. The tip-down nature of a rod-rocker, however, allows you to lay your regular jigging rod down in a way that still allows for some play when that fish comes along. The tipping down offers less resistance to the fish than the rod in a regular rod holder, though most likely more resistance than a high-end deadstick. It's a compromise, much like the compromise one makes in using a deadstick instead of a slipbobber, which, properly set, offers even less resistence. I think, personally, the advantage of being able to leave the rod I've been working in the hole I've been working for a bit while I go on to another hole with another jigging rod or do whatever needs done is worth it.

[McGurk]

Thanks for the info, guys. It looks like a tight fit in that picture! I must have been overthinking this whole thing. It's more-or-less a rod set up to be left alone, and you are watching the rod's movement for strikes. I'm assuming this is only for minnows as I don't see anything else really working. Am I wrong? Also, I'm assuming the bail is closed and you have the drag set relatively light, incase of a hard hit, or is that not really a problem? I will have to set this up as my second line this winter, as I really don't get into the tip-up fishing all that much. Thanks again, and keep it coming!

[CSP88]

Quote:

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It's sorta like bobber fishing without a bobber. That way you can still jig with the rig, and then set it on whatever set-up you have (I use some Rock n Reels)and let the bait do the action.

Depending on how sensetive your balancing setup is, you can tell exactly what the minnow is doing, be it swimming down or up. I like using them for crappies, 'eyes, and stream trout. Most times the rod will dip down when a fish takes the bait, but every once in a while the rod tip will tip up indicating a fish. I haven't used a bobber ice-fishing in over 7 years, none of that re'adjusting bobber stops and other hassles associated with bobbers anymore.

With deadsticking, you rely more on the action of the rodtip to tell when a fish is on while it's sitting in a solid rod holder.

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Wow...an original wooden T-Bones Rock-n-reel. I have two of the newer models.

Chad

[DzNuts]

Thanks for asking the question McGurk. I've been wondering the same thing. But I'm still confused about the differences. They don't all sit on a rocker like in the picture?

[blueroof]

McGurk, setting the bail is an option. When I set a tipdown in a shack, I close the bail. If I set it up outside (like a tip up), I set the line under the flag mechanism with the bail open so the fish can run with the bait.

DzNuts, a deadstick rod uses the blank as the indicator, no tipping or rocking needed. With a tip down or rocker, I use a heavier tipped rod and let the mechanism absorb the bite.

LB

[Lisa Almquist]

I'm really interested in this concept but why stop using bobbers? Does this method bring in more fish? Do you miss bites if you aren't super vigilant watching your rod tip?

[Shack]

Except for some rare exceptions on Mill Lacs in porty and in perm on Mill Lacs, I use no bobber.

Like said above, watch tip of rod. Slight up or down from regular minnow bounce, means fish is very near or on.

Good luck!

[looneyducer]

Quote:

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I'm really interested in this concept but why stop using bobbers? Does this method bring in more fish? Do you miss bites if you aren't super vigilant watching your rod tip?

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It's faster to move, for the most part, since you don't need to adjust a knot. It's possible to do some jigging now and then with the deadstick rod, which in theory should bring in more fish, and the tips of the new deadstick rods are so crazy flexible they don't offer much more resistance than a bobber. I don't know if there is much difference in hook set percentages. Yes, you have less time to get to the rig if you compare to a rig with an open spool, but there's also much less chance of getting line tangled in the ice or frozen in.

I often deadstick whatever I am fishing with on a rod rocker and run a fresh rig while checking the next hole, then leapfrog rigs as I go. It's amazing how often that rig you've been so diligently wiggling will suddenly produce if you just let it hang there for a while, even with dead bait.

[Duffman]

Are these methods better than using a bobber? I can't really answer that question, I'm sure there are instances where a bobber rig out performs Tip-Downs-Deadsticks-Rod Rockers rigs. I just like the hassle-free nature of these types of rigs, if I'm fishing suspended crappies and then see a mark down near the bottom, I just open the bail and drop er down, no need to adjust the bobber stop.

I do loosen up my drag quite a bit in case a big toothy critter hits, the rod points almost straight down, there's no rod resistence when that happens, it's pure drag. I know, it looks like a guy would lose some rigs down the hole using what is essentially a little dowl to balance your rod on. But I've never lost one nor heard of any of the original Ice Shanty Gang losing one. (Knock on wooden Rock N Reel ) I do admit I've gone into panic mode when a pike is on the line and I'm over a hundred feet away running towards a rod that is bouncing up and down like a madman.

If outside conditions permit it, I'll use it as a sorta tip-up. You don't necessarily need to use a live minnow, I've had luck with Power Minnows being slowly jigged by a slight breeze on lakes where live bait isn't allowed. I'll also tape a lighted bobber battery/light combo to the tip of my rod. That way if I want to go into dark/stealth mode, I can still see what is going on in my shack or at a distance at night on the ice. I've even set up a Strike Sensor on them before, so they are just like a tip-up, but I can have fun battlin the fish with a rod. One more thing, if the minnow isn't performing to my standards, I just reach down and tap the rear of the rod, gets that little bugger moving again. Bobber rigs have thier place, I just have more fun with these. Personal preference.

I've got two matching original TBone Rock n Reels autographed by the man himself. "TBone 10/28/01"

They're almost as valuable to me as my LX-5.

[Lisa Almquist]

Thanks everyone for the great info. I am taking notes! My next question is can you just use your normal jigs or do you have to buy specific deadsticking jigs or is a bare hook the best?

[Dark Cloud]

Here is a picture of why you really cant loose a rod. The reel seat and arm wont allow it. I like it much better than bobbers(never use em). A bobber works when your set at a certain depth. This is quickly and indefinatly adjustable...

Picture shows a new and an original Rock n Reel. Original is signed and numbered proto-type s/n00010 dated 8/26/00

She has been retired...

No special bait or rig needed. I prefer a verticle jig with a back hooked minnow...

[Lisa Almquist]

Dark Cloud,

Where did you buy that new Rock n Reel?

[Duffman]

Lisa...

I'm not sure if they are in production anymore? There are a few copycat designs in the stores these days, now that you know what they sort of look like, check the stores for similar concepts. Not quite the same design but same concept.

DC....

Hey buddy! I hope all is well for you and the family out east. I'm going to be going out for the first time this year this afternoon, hopefully give that RnR a workout. Yea, those first prototypes sorta got stuck in the upright position, mine is also retired and on the mantle next to grandpas reel and the spoon auger. (That'll make TBone feel young)

[Dark Cloud]

Duff - Things are good out here. Been busy knocking down deer, and chasing some steelies. Good luck this afternoon. Most lakes here have an inch or two. Dad and I are gonna give a lake that might have 3in a looksy tomorrow. Be safe and hope alls well w/ you and yours...

Lisa... Maybe TBone ow WallEyes will chime in. Not sure if they are being made or if they have some laying around. Nothings better than the original. I'll send an e-mail also...

[Lisa Almquist]

Thanks!

[WallEYES]

Lisa...T-Bone and I still have a few laying around. if interested e mail me at [email protected]

Just an example up at the n.w. angle on low we caught a lot of big fish on these devices where a bobber or even a dead stick with a real soft tip would probably not have worked in our situation. The rod balances on the peg and the fish feel no resistance. The rod slowly moves slowly downward down towards the hole. We caught numerous walleyes in the 23-25 inch area and the biggest was pushing 30 inches. Theses fish were all finicky and we watched our rods slowly move towards the hole sometimes 2-3 minutes before we would take the rod off the peg and set the hook. A 42 inch pike was also taken on the same set up. Like Duffman and DarkCloud were saying it is a must part of our fishing arsenal....like the american express card, don't ever leave home without it.

[WallEYES]

Duffman and D/C.... things are goot, did a lot of fall eye and ski fishing and the deer hunting was a sucess. Little Pihuulak got his first deer this year. Thanks giving weekend we headed out west to bang some sky carp and chinese ditch parrots...the kid out did the ol man in the shooting department. Miss the old days!

[Lisa Almquist]

Email sent!! I'm pumped-Thanks!!

[Duffman]

WallEYES....

Little Pihuulak ain't so little anymore according to the pic I saw of him with his deer, jeez, now I'm starting to feel old. Although he was sure little when I first met youse and TBone out on Medicine - my first experience with an RnR. I remember thinking to myself "What a great idea". Good to hear from ya bud, stay in touch. Problem Solving Meeting sometime???

[slipperybob]

I used to fish rocker style on the river lindy rigged, but hadn't transferred that to ice fishing...mainly because I didn't have anything to stick the a V bar rod holder in. How does a person stick a stake down rod holer in ice? Beats me. This year, I'm going to use some L screws. Screw them right into the ice. That way, it's anchored, and won't tip over.

[jvjohnson]

do most stores sell them and how much do they normaly cost?

[Dark Cloud]

WallEyes - Yep I got the pictures of Little P, hard to believe thats the same kid I was wresteling with on LOW...