My first opener ever!!! & Do you think I got a bad CO?

[Shack]

Sandmann,

Give me an e-mail and I will give you the low down on.

I posted this late on Saterday night, but I removed it at midnight (old time).

[Sandmannd]

shackbash, tried emailing you and it comes back to me. You wanna email me at [email protected] ?

Thanks

[Shack]

e-mail sent!

[Grant Pearson]

I left a message for the CO's supervisor and his supervisor's in a meeting and will be calling me back after the meeting. When the receptionist took my name/number/info, she asked what the call regarded. After I told her that it regarded a CO, and which one, for some reason she didn't seem surprised. Now I'm just waiting for the call back.

[MikeYager - Suzuki]

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I left a message for the CO's supervisor and his supervisor's in a meeting and will be calling me back after the meeting. When the receptionist took my name/number/info, she asked what the call regarded. After I told her that it regarded a CO, and which one, for some reason she didn't seem surprised. Now I'm just waiting for the call back.

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Good move. His boss should know about this. People should report such things so that if the guy really isnt cut out for the job his mgt will eventually find out. OR he gets addtional training to handle this situation and cleans up his act. Either way, job feedback is the only way to go. That's what they have alwasy done at my company.

[Grant Pearson]

I just got off the phone with the Captain (yes, I went that high up the totem pole) and she said that she'll pull his report, sit down and talk to him to see what he could've done differently, and is having me call back on Friday. I really don't think that much will come of it, but hope that, if nothing else, he thinks twice about his attitude next time he talks to someone.

[Steve Foss]

Well, kingfisher, this is a good start toward a resolution. It's about the best you could reasonably have hoped for. What would you like to see come of it?

[Grant Pearson]

in all honesty, all I would like to see happen is that he is sat down with and get a chat about his attitude. From volunteering with the DNR as much as I do, I know 100% and completely understand that they have a very difficult job and are way understaffed. The thing that made me so POed is that fact that is attitude was off the charts even after he came to the realization that we weren't hiding anything. I'm 100% behind him stopping us and asking us questions. But for him to sit in his vehicle for 20 minutes not doing much of anything and after giving our licenses back, telling us to leave the WMA? That was uncalled for. That's where the problem is. All I want is that he is more respectful. The captain even said that it's not good when a new hunter is considering exclusively hunting in a different state because of a CO's actions.

[Steve Foss]

Cool. Looks like that chat is about to happen, so you'll get what you want out of it.

[GoggleEye]

Man! Classic story of bad CO, good CO. It seems like CO's are either really good nice people or completely rude, harassing, and uneducated individuals. Sounds as if you got the bad one! I can't believe he didn't know the laws about blaze orange and muzzleloaders!!! I hate to say it, because the DNR is understaffed and there are not enough CO's out there to cover everything, but this guy deserves to be shown the door and sent to the unemployment office! I have fished with KF and Sandmann, and they are both stand-up guys. I am sure there was no need for harassing them like this guy did. Sorry to hear about your episode boys! Good luck getting a deer!

GoggleEye

[GoggleEye]

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Maybe we could fire all the CO's and then see what type of game and fish would be left to hunt and fish.

I'm not saying that all CO's are great at talking with sportsmen but how many do you think have been lied to a million times? How many people do you think treat the CO's like cr ap? They are also human and can only take so much from the sportmen that are always lying and cheating and stealing our resourse.

They have a job to do and we want them to do it. Now, just maybe he was screemed at and treated very poorly by the person he dealt with right before he stopped you. he is suppose to just forget about all that has happened and come on over just a smillin.

I think before we judge him so harshly, we do need to know the whole story and I'm betting not one single person does.

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Doesnt matter. COs are supposed to be professional its THEIR JOB.

That CO was unprofessional, so you could say that he wasnt doing his job.

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I support CO's in general 100%, but to be unaware of the orange law and also the muzzleloader law, in my opinion, is not good.

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More unprofessionalism. At the VERY least COs should know the rule book inside and out, backwards and forward...ITS THEIR JOB to know it, otherwise they cannot and should not be in the field enforcing the rules. Plain and Simple.

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Well Said SledNeck!

[folke2000]

As a supervisor in Law Enforcement, feedback (both positive and negative) regarding our officers actions are always welcome and valuable in evaluating our employees. The investigative response by an individual officer most times is not observed by a supervisor. Maybe the CO just had a bad day, and needs to realize that he can't take it out on the next encounter, or maybe it is part of a larger problem that needs to be addressed by supervisors. Equally, if you have a very good encounter with a CO, I would encourage you to also call it in. How are the supervisors to know how their CO's are doing if no one tells them the good or bad. Either way, I am happy to see that a TIP call was followed up on, and if it was the "attitude" of the CO that caused problems by all means file a complaint with the supervisor. Maybe the CO will learn from any mistakes made, and in turn will become more effective the next time. In short, don't give up the hunt, it sounds as if you are true sportsmen.

[Steve Foss]

Great feedback, folke.

[Sandmannd]

Thank you Folk, your points are well taken. I've never had an issue like this with law enforcement but I think it needs to be addressed. I also call when I get service for anything and let people know when there employees do good. I had air conditioner service this summer and the guy that came out got it working, then went and closed all my windows for me. He also said my two dogs looked really hot so he gave them some more cooler water and a treat (I had told him where we kept them) and also pet them for a few minutes. This to me was awesome so I called his supervisor and told him about it. He said it was nice to hear someone did good. Like I said, this guy doesn't need to be fired, maybe just talked to and told not to take things out on people and not to assume they are guilty. I more want to know if anything will happen to the folks that reported it. Thanks Googleeyes for the kind words. You are correct, we both respect the land and what it offers and we have total respect for law enforcement.

[jim68]

I am under the impression that most CO's, at least the ones I know, are outdoorsmen themselves. So I don't think they would be trying to turn anyone off to the outdoors. It sounds like this guy had some issue, young and dumb, Momma's with the mailman, not enough sleep the list is endless. It was a bad experience. Most of the time when you either are or apear to be on the wrong side of the law the experience is not good. Personaly it bothers anyone to have thier word questioned esspecially over and over again. I would take it as an experience and charge on there is still plenty of season and deer left. Life is too short to let this CO ruin more than that day. I look forward to hearing about you going out and getting your first deer.

[Grant Pearson]

googleeye: thanks for the kind words. It means a lot.

Folk: I agree with you. Like I said before, Sandmannd and I aren't mad that we got stopped by the CO following up on a complaint. I was glad to see him on that aspect of it. I'm glad that he was following up on a tip that he received. What my issue was (as well as Sandmannd's) was the way he presented himself and his attitude. Even after finding out that he had the wrong guys, he continued badgering us. That's why I called his supervisor. I 100% back them up and know how though it is to work Law Enforcement, especially as a CO, being understaffed and all, but if it wasn't for sportsmen like all of us, that CO wouldn't even have a job. Our licenses provide the majority of the funds for his paychecks. The least he could've done was show a little respect. It's kind of sad as well when you know the law a little better than the officer grilling you. Maybe he should pick up the regs booklet and go through it a little better.

As far as what I wanted to happen, it's in motion to happen. Whatever else happens because of it, is out of my hands.

[lawdog]

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My question for those who disagree with what the CO did is, "What should he have done differently?"

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Not even knowing the law would be my main beef. Telling him his muzzleloader is loaded when there is no cap/primer on it???!!! Giving him a warning ticket for not enough orange when he has the legal minimum or morw on???!!!

Tactics sounded a little over the top too and didn't really seem to be based upon much credible info, particularly since he had another truck in the area to check too (meaning someone apparently based the whole complaint on where their vehicle was, not anything they'd actually seen). Obviously he didn't really have anything on these guys. Investigate and check thoroughly, but don't harass and berate them for a continued period of time like he seemingly did...that's my only concern and I think the original guys said they agreed he should have checked like we all have. It was just too much...

[Blue Hue]

How much orange do you have to have on in your truck? I sometimes take some off for comfort between places.

[Scott K]

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How much orange do you have to have on in your truck? I sometimes take some off for comfort between places.

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I thought this also, I just didnt want to get in the middle of things, I am glad you guys reported him, it may have been a bad day or whatever, but thats no reason to make you have a bad day! In the end, you may just save someone else from getting this attitude from the co.

[Steve Foss]

I often don't wear any orange in my vehicle. Since it's illegal for me to hunt from a vehicle, I'd have a lot to say to a CO who wanted to ticket me for not wearing orange as I'm driving between hunting spots.

It's not clear the CO in question in this thread didn't know the regs. He might have known them quite well but ignored them so he could keep badgering the guys. Lots of possibilities here.

[Grant Pearson]

I'm not going to say names, but as far as him knowing the laws, he VERY WELL SHOULD HAVE!! The CO that stopped us was a Lt., so there's no reason for him not to know the regs, even if he was a rookie.

[analyzer]

here's my take:

The CO saw a wounded deer run across the road, away from where you were hunting. He watched to see if someone was tracking. No one was tracking. So now, he is questioning everyone in the immediate area, to see who shot it.

He knows the rules, he was just checking to see what your knowledge of the rules is. My bet is, most people who know the rule book, abide by the rules. Those who don't know the rules are more often the rule breakers. So he was just checking to see if you've read the regs.

How could someone have had your license number? If they were in the woods to see you shoot a doe, they would have to watch to see if you collected it, then would have to follow you out and get your plate number. If no one followed you out, no one has your plate number.

My bet is, there was no witness with your plate number. In fact, no one gave him your plate number at all!

He pulled your plate when he pulled up behind you. No one ID'd you, no one gave him a plate number. He saw an untracked wounded deer, and was grasping at straws. He's going to give the same story to the next guy.

[Sandmannd]

That must be why they call you analyzer, . That's a good take since he said he was going to check the next truck coming out and that would make sense. The thing I thought was the group we saw coming out heard a shot and though we dropped something and they saw us coming out. In reality there was a shot about 5 minutes before we came out of the woods. A guy dropped a doe and was getting ready to gut, that's what we saw from the road anyway.

[deadminnowcatcher]

Having over 20 years of Law Enforcement experience I have come to realize something. There is a certain percentage of complaints that we take that are falsley reported for one reason or another. Law enforcement has to remember that when they confront the alledged suspects.I have found that it is more productive to treat people like I would want to be treated. Even if they are truly guilty. Otherwise over time you will lose all credibility with the public. If this CO handles all of his investigations like this he will not be very effective. He may need you for something in the future and cause of his behavior you may not be willing to help him out.

[vister]

maybe just by chance the people that reported and id'd you are liable. thought it was a doe, but maybe they realized it was just a fawn, and wanted nothing to do with it, cause they probably only had one tag. falsifying a report may have made them think they were in the clear.