How are others buying hunting land?

[DRH1175]

When can one afford some hunting land. I have been wanting some land for sometime now. Every time I mentioned it in the past my wife said, "What would I get out of it?" My wife and I went to look at her cousins new Cabin in the woods today and my wife surprisingly said she would love to buy something like that someday. Finally I am getting somewhere. So I find this nice piece of land on a river with 20 acres. Plenty of land for my use. Now How does one buy something like that? What are you all doing?

[huntmup]

Do a forty year second mortgage. On 20 acers payments should be less then $400.00 a month. OR pay cash

Dan

[BLACKJACK]

1) Buy some land and build your home on it, thats what we did. Instead of paying $40,000 for a lot in town we paid $100,000 for 200 acres 25 miles from town and built our house on it.

2) Buy some land with some income coming off it. Instead of 80 acres of woods, get 80 acres with 60 acres of tillable where you can get rent or CRP off it and 20 acres of woods.

3) If the land you're looking at has wetlands, talk to Soil and Water and Fish and Wildlife about programs that may help you buy the land.

4) Keep looking, comparing prices, etc so when 'the right picece' of land comes up for sale, you know its priced right.

5) As far as the wife, you need to convince her that it will be good for family activities together. One hint, when you're talking to realtors, have them send you the info on the property. When that info shows up on the kitchen table, it generates discussion with your wife on the pros and cons of buying some recreation land. Kind of like chumming the waters - eventually you'll be able to set the hook!!!

Be patient, it may take years to find the right piece. But don't wait too long becasue prices keep going up!!

[Bigeye30"]

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my wife said, "What would I get out of it?"

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Hmm well I start out by saying that it's an investment into the future, like a college savings plan for the kids that the family can use every year, plus the benefits that the kids will get out of it such as life lasting memories with mom and dad at the cabin, also these types of parcels only come available once in a lifetime, usually once it's bought it may be another 30 or more years for the same oppurtunity to arrive, by that time land prices are going to be quadrupled, then what are we supposed to do, look back and say I knew we should have purchased that when it first came on the market thirty years ago. Just my two cents

[chucker34]

I agree with Blackjack. Make that "cabin in the woods" your home where you are or where you want to be. That's what we did. It doesn't literally have to be the woods. Just your own little version of paradise. And it doesn't have to be obnoxiously priced either. You don't need more than 10-20 acres in the right spot to create your own little hunting paradise with a few stands out behind the house or in front of it or wherever. You may even be able to hunt off your deck if you have proper house placement near the deer trails. lol.

[luckey]

Everytime I add to or talk about adding to, my hunting land, my wife says "you don't NEED any more land". I agree with her I don't "NEED" more, but I "WANT" more. So far I have added on three times. Good luck.

I also got a number of hunting buddies turned on to land and a number of them bought property ajacent to mine. This way as a group you can control a larger piece of land. Note: I suggest each party own their own land because owning land as a group can create some issues.

[DRH1175]

I am looking at it like as an investment. We are 30 and have 100K in our retirement accounts. We have little extra cash since our mortgage takes up most of our income. Her take is someday when we have more money. However at the same time we are putting about $1500 a month into our 401K I am thinking of putting about $600 of that into this land with a cabin coming in the future. Recreation land is an investment as well and honestly more stable I think anyways than the stock markets our 401k is going into right? Plus than not only will the value rise but we can enjoy it all of our lives instead of only when we retire? What are others takes on this and also does anyone have a lender that is good for land purchases?

[96trigger]

I don't know if you can ever go wrong buying land. I'd love to pick up a little chunk somewhere. I know that land used to be so cheap they almost gave away the recreation land with the cropland. My grandparents bought there farm in the early 80's for $27,000 it sold 3 years ago for $950,000 thats a 351% increase in value. However, I don't believe the stock market is stable. I believe that there are a lot of people who own recreation land right now, if the economy would turn, these people might be forced to sell there land if times get tough. With an increase in land for sale, prices could drop and value could go down. Look at the number of foreclosures in the paper. The real plus side right now would be the super low interest rates. I don't know exactly what I would do. If the economy stays good, I don't think you can go wrong buying land. If it takes a turn, you could lose money on your retirement. If you know that this is going to be a long term investment that your kids would also enjoy, I say go for it. If it means strapping you for cash when you retire, I would use caution.

This is strictly my opinion, I am NOT a financial analyst.

[DRH1175]

I know we would still have plenty to retire on. We put a lot away now. But Why now use some of the investment right now instead of waiting for a retirement to enjoy. I am not looking at buying a lot. I am thinking about 40 acres max for around 50k I also figure I could have it paid off in like 10 years and be ahead. I would think that if the economy took a hit than all of our 401ks would take that same hit. Land to me is more stable since there is more and more people buying and with how much it has gone up over the last 15 years. I would assume that 40 acres that is bought now in 30 years would be atleast worth double.

[DRH1175]

Opinions on the real estate market? As stated before I want to buy some Recreation land. In others opinions how is the market going to be? Should I wait a couple more years to look into buying or is now the time? Are land values going to go down or are they going to take off again soon. What is everyones opinions on this? Thanks

[McGurk]

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My grandparents bought there farm in the early 80's for $27,000 it sold 3 years ago for $950,000 thats a 351% increase in value.

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Check that math: that's 3,518%, over 35 times the initial investment. I've been wrestling this issue with my wife, too, and I haven't found a magic statement or arguement, either. Also, an investment is only an investment if you plan on selling it, and even then you need to find a buyer for your land. Otherwise it's called a purchase. Believe me; I've been told this over and over and over and...

[luckey]

DRH1175,

McGurk is right. It should be looked at as a purchase. If you look at it as an investment, you are also planning to sell when the price is right. There are a few other costs to consider. Taxes: Check with the county on what the property is currently assesed at and what the taxes are. Insurance: Most homeowners insurance will cover you for liability, however, for a small price (approximatly $200-$300) you can purchase an umbrella policy for $1 million liability coverage. Interest: Calculate what your real interest costs are after any tax deduction. Maintenance: This can be a small or large cost depending on what you do. Chain saw, mower, etc. Travel costs: How far is the property from where you now live. How often do you go there.

With this information you can pretty much project how much the next 10 years of owning the property will cost.

There are other costs that depend on what you do. You may need a 4 wheeler to get around, trailer to haul the wheeler and 4X4 to pull the trailer and access the land through mud and snow.

The things liste are only the ones that cost you money. There are things that save money also. For instance the weekend you spend at the land you will not be out doing something that may cost a lot more!

I bought property 15 years ago. I did look at it as an investment but after a few years became quite attached to the land. (must be the old farmer in me). I would like to sell the land to my kids but it has gone up in value to the point where they cannot afford to buy it. That leaves me with two options, sell it (not gonna happen) or just give it to them.

My uncle always says, if you see a piece of propery for sale that you want, just buy it and worry about what will happen later.

[DRH1175]

Thanks,

I guess I will just have to bank some money now for a down payment and hope in the next couple years it continues to go down. I much want some hunting land. But I also want to get a good deal on it. I would hate to buy it now to see the value go down in the next few years. Knowing if I have waited maybe I could have bought that same piece of property for that much less! Thanks for all the input.

[BLACKJACK]

Unless interest rates jump over 10%, I don't think land prices will go down too much. I think the best thing you can do is keep watching land prices so when a good deal comes up, you know its a good deal and can jump on it. Rural land is tougher to gauge than a house in the city, in the city you have lots of other houses to compare against, in the country, you have to gauge wooded vrs tillable vrs marginal land, plus there might be a farmsted on the place that raises the value. The only way to know what is a good price is to keep watching and looking at lots of them.

Remember, listing price is just that, list price. Most sell for considerably less. Make the selling realtor show you comparable sales that match what you're looking at. If they can't, its problaby overpriced. Realtors just want the listing, they'll tell the seller what they want to hear as in "I can get $3000 an acre" but when the offers start coming in at $2400 an acre, its the sellers that are disapointed, the realtors commission doesn't suffer that much. Also do your own research, go up to the courthouse and look at actual sales in that area.

[DRH1175]

ahh thanks for the ideas. I think iam going to print off 10-15 propertys that interest me. Drive buy and take a look. I will them hang on to them. Maybe they will stick around and become real stale or mold so to speak and at that time I could buy for a lot less than list price. My co worker just bought a place south of the cities it is a farm house but anyways they wanted $450k for it and he offered around $350 and they took it. I just think that some of these parcels are elevated at more than they really are worth and untill they become real stale. On the market for over a year or even two won't be sold.

[Hogzilla]

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However at the same time we are putting about $1500 a month into our 401K I am thinking of putting about $600 of that into this land with a cabin coming in the future.

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Listen to Her, she makes sense.

I ran some quick numbers, very unscientific, about your retirement picture if you decide to reduce your 401K contributions. But before we get into those, remember the 401k money not only is tax free but it also reduces your reported income thereby further reducing your tax obligation.

If you reduced your contributions from $1500 to $900 you would accumulate roughly $1,100,000 by the time you turned 60. This takes into account an increase of your savings at about 5% per year and an annual return of about %7.0 per year. In 30 years, you will be able to draw roughly $7,000 per month and not run out of savings until you reach 100 years of age. Assuming an income tax rate of %15 your retirement takehome pay would be about $6,000 dollars a month. So far this sounds pretty good eh? Now the bad news, $6,000 in todays dollars will be worth about $3,500 in future (30 years from now) dollars. So all those retirement plans of travel and what not will be out of your economic reach.

Listen to her, keep putting your $1,500 into the 401k, save some money outside your 401k, and buy the land later.

[luckey]

Hogzilla, better check again on the tax free 401K. I believe it is "tax deffered" not tax free. A roth would be tax free. You are right about not paying tax on the 401K contributions however, it will be taxible upon distribution.

[Hogzilla]

You're right, it should have said 401k contributions are pre-tax and taxed when withdrawn.

[96trigger]

McGurk, sorry about my math, I'm a science teacher, not a math teacher.

If I could find 40 acres around here for around 50 grand, I'd be on it like stink on you know what. In SEMN, I did a quick search, 40 acres, $154,000. You and I are comparing apples and oranges.

[WaitForIt]

Realtors..

Anyone ever met a good one?

I'm in the same delightful predicament - trying to figure out how to buy land. I started backwards.. went looking at properties before getting my financing options sorted out. I've talked to quite a few realtors and so far the experience has been disappointing, to say the least.

I'd say if you want to go that route, find someone who routinely does LAND deals. When I tell the agent I'm looking for a mix of open/wooded land with <25% wet, many of these newbs send me all sorts of nonsense listings that don't match my criteria or even come close.

Searching for land is exhausting.. but it'll eventually be worth it!

[luckey]

WaitForIt,

Here are a few thoughts on land purchases. Let's say you checked the finances and decided you were able to buy land. Now what? First, narrow your search to a distance you are willing to travel to the land. (remember the farther you go, the less time you spend there). Now, check for which Zone and area you would like. If you are a gun hunter you may want to buy property in a zone that has more than a couple day season. Now that you narrow your search you can go to the general area and start talking with some locals about what's available. Start getting the word out that you are looking for property. Let everyone (fellow workers, neighbors, relatives, etc) know and you may be surprised by the number of people who know somebody who knows sombody who's grandfather, uncle etc has property they may sell.

[Scott K]

As for the loan for the land, ck into a 2nd mortgage on your home, it would be tax deductable and more then likely a cheeper rate. Just a thought if you have the equity, if not, you may not want to consider it at this point anyhow!