Wisconsin revisited

[almostthere!]

And so it starts all over again: hunter murdered in the Wisconsin woods by another hunter who is on probation and should not have been allowed hunting in the woods.

Ouch...

[lunker651]

It's gonna happen again and again . Hope he gets life w/o parole.

[Cooter]

When and where was this?

[MNmikew]

This was in today Trib online.

WAUSAU, WIS. - Marinette County District Attorney Brent DeBord said Wednesday that he is reviewing police reports in the death of a 30-year-old squirrel hunter from Green Bay, saying the preliminary investigation of what has been described as a homicide is done.

"I cannot say with any certainty when charges will be filed," the newly elected prosecutor said in his first public statement on the case. "This is a very serious matter and needs to be handled correctly from the beginning. I would ask for the public's continued patience and understanding."

The victim, Cha Vang, of Green Bay, was a Hmong refugee and the man jailed as a suspect in his death is a 28-year-old white man from Peshtigo, Wis.

Vang's body was found Saturday morning in woods near Peshtigo where he and the other man were squirrel hunting.

In November 2004, Chai Soua Vang, of St. Paul, shot and killed six white hunters and wounded two others near Rice Lake, Wis., claiming they fired at him first. The current case has rekindled talk about racial tensions in northern Wisconsin.

Sheriff Jim Kanikula has released few details about Cha Vang's death, including the cause, other than it occurred after an "accidental meeting" between Vang and another hunter.

No charges have been filed in the death, but the suspect was jailed Saturday on a probation violation related to burglary convictions in 1997, authorities said.

The jailed man's fiancée, Dacia James, 20, said Tuesday that the men had a verbal confrontation and Vang shot at her fiancé twice, hitting him in both hands, before they fought and Vang was stabbed to death.

[Ufatz]

It's probably best if everyone maintains calm here, until a little more is undetstood about what happened. It's unfortunate WI officials feel the best way to keep people calm is to withhold information-dumb police trick. There a too many questions. A real and serious problem in this instance-and others- is the number of new people we have in the country who do not speak understandable English.

I believe it is well PAST time for the MN and WI DNR to make some attempt to explain to new immigrants our concept of wildlife management and bag limits, hunting methods and means.

Lets wait and see.

[lunker651]

All this could of been prevented. The guy that stab Vang was a convicted felon and cannot be in possession of any firearm. I found this article in the Winona daily news.

DA: Preliminary probe of hunter’s death completed

WAUSAU, Wis. (AP) — Marinette County District Attorney Brent DeBord said Wednesday that he is reviewing police reports in the death of a 30-year-old squirrel hunter from Green Bay, saying the preliminary investigation of what’s been described as a homicide is done.

“I cannot say with any certainty when charges will be filed,” the newly elected prosecutor said in his first public statement on the case that has threatened to re-expose racial tensions in the northwoods. “This is a very serious matter and needs to be handled correctly from the beginning. I would ask for the public’s continued patience and understanding.”

The victim, Cha Vang of Green Bay, is a Hmong refugee and the man jailed as a suspect in the death is a 28-year-old white man from Peshtigo, James Nichols. Vang’s body was found Saturday morning in woods near Peshtigo where he and Nichols were squirrel hunting.

Two years ago, a Hmong deer hunter in northwestern Wisconsin fatally shot six white hunters and wounded two others. He claimed one of them fired in his direction after they shouted racial epithets. He is serving multiple life terms.

Marinette County Sheriff Jim Kanikula has released few details of the investigation, including the cause of Vang’s death, other than it occurred after an “accidental meeting” between Vang and another hunter, and that Vang’s body was found partially concealed in the woods.

Nichols has not been charged in the death but was jailed early Saturday on a probation violation as a felon in possession of a firearm related to 1997 convictions for burglary.

Nichols’ fiancee, Dacia James, 20, told The Associated Press on Tuesday that Nichols told her that he asked Vang to leave an area where both were squirrel hunting, there was a verbal confrontation and Vang shot at Nichols twice, hitting him in both hands, before they fought and Nichols stabbed him.

Kanikula was no longer taking calls Wednesday regarding the case, a dispatcher said, and he has not commented on James’ version of the incident.

Vang, a father of five, arrived in the U.S. about two years ago from a refugee camp in Thailand. Vang’s wife has said the victim spoke no English and could not have provoked an attack.

James said Tuesday she has known Nichols for five years, he was not a racist and “has friends from every ethnic background he has ever come in contact with.”

But in 1996, Nichols, then 18, was charged with 14 counts of misdemeanor and felony theft and burglary in the break-ins of seven rural cabins, according to court records.

The owner of one cabin reported that “KKK” and a racial slur for African-Americans were spray-painted on a bedroom door, the criminal complaint said. It also “appeared” KKK was spray-painted on a kitchen counter, the document said.

Nichols told investigators that he and a 15-year-old companion committed the burglaries for money, the complaint said. While admitting stealing items and vandalizing the cabins, including plugging sinks at a cabin and flooding it, neither Nichols nor the 15-year-old acknowledged writing the racist graffiti in statements they gave police, the 10-page complaint said.

Nichols was sentenced to prison after being convicted of three counts of burglary and one count of criminal damage to property. He was released from prison in 2002, the state Department of Corrections said.

According to James, Nichols’ reaction to the 2004 shooting rampage in northwestern Wisconsin that killed the six deer hunters was just like everyone else’s — dismay and surprise.

“He didn’t get racial about it. He didn’t swear about it. He was just stunned more than anything that something like that could happen,” James said.

Tammy Van Acker, owner of the King of Clubs Grill in Peshtigo, said Nichols has lived in an apartment above the business for about six months and she has come to know him as a quiet guy who was helpful, such as offering to mow the grass.

“He doesn’t come off as a malicious person whatsoever,” she said. “I never heard him make any anti-Hmong comments.”

[SupaMan]

Quote:

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It's probably best if everyone maintains calm here, until a little more is undetstood about what happened. It's unfortunate WI officials feel the best way to keep people calm is to withhold information-dumb police trick. There a too many questions. A real and serious problem in this instance-and others- is the number of new people we have in the country who do not speak understandable English.

I believe it is well PAST time for the MN and WI DNR to make some attempt to explain to new immigrants our concept of wildlife management and bag limits, hunting methods and means.

Lets wait and see.

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What does this have to do with this case?

[Ufatz]

Well Supa, the point is that this incident might well have resulted from an inability to communicate and a lack of understanding of everyday hunting courtesy, which you and I take for granted.

The other point was that before we engage in a windy rant about this tragedy we resist the temptation to run amok verbally based on very little information.

Thank you.

[McGurk]

I read this story and took race completely out of this, and came to this question. How could Nichols, who was shot in each of his hands, subdue Vang, who probably still had his already-fired gun, and stab him to death. Something doesn't add up; we'll have to wait and see. Unfortunately the only other witness to this has been buried.

*Pure CSI type speculation ahead*: Vang was told to leave, didn't comply, was attacked, stabbed, and killed. Nichols shot each of his hands separately with Vang's rifle after the fact. To be shot in each hand legitamately you would presumably be holding them between you and the shooter, but there was no other entrance wound on Nichols. I gotta stop watching these crime solving shows. Like I said, this is my little twisted angle on this, I rarely take a paper's view on a crime as the truth, and I will be the first to say I can be WWWAAAAAYYY off base here.

[JDM]

I completely agree with everything you mentioned. How does a guy who was shot in each hand then use a knife to stab somebody? If he did, he must have been on some really strong drugs. How come he didn't go the the authorities? Why was the dead guy partially concealed? It doesn't add up?

[almostthere!]

Quote:

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A real and serious problem in this instance-and others- is the number of new people we have in the country who do not speak understandable English.

I believe it is well PAST time for the MN and WI DNR to make some attempt to explain to new immigrants our concept of wildlife management and bag limits, hunting methods and means.

Lets wait and see.

---

Fatz,

That comment is really racist and uncalled for. There is a regulation written in the Hmong language. Besides that, knowing English has nothing to do with this murder case.

[SupaMan]

Quote:

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Quote:

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A real and serious problem in this instance-and others- is the number of new people we have in the country who do not speak understandable English.

I believe it is well PAST time for the MN and WI DNR to make some attempt to explain to new immigrants our concept of wildlife management and bag limits, hunting methods and means.

Lets wait and see.

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Fatz,

That comment is really racist and uncalled for. There is a regulation written in the Hmong language. Besides that, knowing English has nothing to do with this murder case.

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I agree, what Fatz said is really racist. I thought racist comments are uncalled for in here? We shouldn't have people like him in these forrums.

"Thank You!"

[Ufatz]

Look fellas, it is not racist to point out the obvious. When all the facts are in it is very likely that a lack of communication was at least partly to blame for what happened.That is not an accusation against either man,regardless of race. And the record shows that too many new immigrants to our part of the world violate fish and game laws-that is not something fabricated. We really NEED to have MN and WI DNR people at least make an effort to help new arrivals understand how wildlife management works in our country. Nothing racist about that. If I moved to Australia and wanted to go hunting, I would sure hope somebody would give me a few pointers. Accusing me of racism is not needed here. In fact, just so you'll know: on two occasions in my life I have had the privilege of being invited to speak to large groups of new citizens on the day they take their oath as new Americans. Not likely a racist would be invited to do that, now is it?

[lcornice]

The Minnesota DNR has an extensive outreach program with the southeast Asian community. In fact, basic regulations are printed in Hmong: Hmong Hunting Regulations. DNR also has Viet, Hmong, and Lao officers who work in the community, in addition to have a Viet and Hmong liasion working for the agency. I can't speak for Wisconsin.

Finally, before this thread gets locked over it's inappropriateness, we need to remember that nearly all of our families came from somewhere and didn't speak the language when we arrived. The only difference is time ...

[Ufatz]

Thank you Icornice. I was not aware of the outreach programs. Must be something relatively new or at least programs that have not received much attention. I am delighted to hear it.

[fishKiLLa]

So this is what happened.

Vang shot, stabbed multiple times, according to autopsy

First-degree intentional homicide charges filed against Nichols

MARINETTE – James Nichols is accused of shooting Green Bay hunter Cha Vang once and stabbing him six times, including five in the throat, according to a criminal complaint filed today in Marinette County Circuit Court.

Vang, 30, a Hmong refugee living in Green Bay, was found dead Jan. 6 in the Peshtigo Harbor Wildlife Area after a hunting companion reported him missing the night before.

The complaint alleges Nichols got into a confrontation with Vang while hunting squirrels in the Peshtigo Harbor Wildlife Area on Jan 5.

Nichols was wounded — once in each hand — during the altercation. He was treated at a local hospital where authorities first made contact with him.

Vang’s death has not been officially charged as a hate crime, but Nichols made statements about Vang being Hmong and gave opinions of Hmong hunters, according to the complaint.

Nichols’ version of the events changed several times while being interviewed by investigators. He ultimately admitted to killing Vang, hiding Vang’s body and kicking Vang’s rifle beneath bark in an attempt to conceal the crime, according to authorities. Investigators found the shotgun they believed was used in the killing at a Menominee, Mich., storage facility and discovered the knife suspected of being used inside Nichols’ girlfriend’s vehicle.

Nichols remains jailed in Marinette County and is expected to make an initial appearance in Marinette County Court this afternoon. The charges carry a maximum of life in prison plus 39 years.

According to the Attorney General’s office:

“The complaint alleges that Vang encountered Nichols while they were both hunting on January 5, 2007, in the Peshtigo Harbor Wildlife area. Vang’s hunting companions reported that Vang failed to meet them as agreed at 4 p.m., after which they reported him missing. Vang’s body was discovered by law enforcement authorities on the morning of January 6, 2007, lying in a small depression and partially covered with leaves and other debris. A log was lying across his body.

“Shortly before 7 p.m. on January 5, 2007, Nichols arrived at the Bay Area Medical Center in Marinette and reported that he had been shot by an unknown person while hunting in an area 35 miles away from the Peshtigo Harbor Wildlife area. Nichols had a .22 caliber bullet lodged in his right hand and an injury to his left hand. Nichols denied having possessed a firearm while hunting, stating that he had been using a pellet gun which he had brought with him to the hospital.

“The Marinette County Sheriff’s Department was notified and responded to the hospital. Prior to that time, Marinette County law enforcement dispatch had not received any calls from Nichols reporting a shooting or any request for assistance. Nichols provided this same version to a responding sheriff’s deputy and also stated that after being shot he drove home and called his girlfriend, who then drove him to the hospital.

“After the investigating deputy expressed doubt about his statements, Nichols stated he wanted to talk hypothetically and asked about self-defense. Nichols changed his story and acknowledged he was hunting in the Peshtigo Harbor Wildlife Area. Nichols claimed that while he was hunting squirrels he looked up to see Vang and told him to leave the area because he was interfering with Nichols’s hunting, and that Vang said something he couldn’t understand and then shot him in the hand with a .22 caliber rifle. Nichols stated that he laughed after being shot and then ran when he was shot again in his other hand. Nichols stated that he then charged Vang and they fought and Nichols killed him.

“Nichols was later interviewed by another officer and stated that he was hunting with a shotgun. After killing a squirrel, Nichols stated he saw Vang looking at him from 50 feet away and he told Vang to leave. Nichols stated that Vang responded by stating, “I’m going to kill you” and shot him in the right hand. Nichols stated that he ran another 40 feet and fired a “wild” shot back at Vang but didn’t know if he hit him. Vang then allegedly fired a second shot at him and hit him in the left hand. Nichols stated that he then observed Vang doing something with his weapon and he then ran at Vang from 90 feet away, wrestled the gun away and stabbed Vang twice in the neck. Nichols stated that he then covered up Vang’s body and put Vang’s gun under a tree.

“Vang’s hunting companions reported that Vang did not speak English.

“Nichols’s girlfriend initially advised investigators that Nichols had told her he had been shot while hunting and did not know who shot him. She later advised investigators that Nichols claimed he was shot by a person with whom he got into a fight, and that Nichols stabbed and killed that person. Investigators were also informed that after the incident occurred, Nichols and his girlfriend drove to Menominee, Michigan, where Nichols hid a shotgun and ammunition in a storage locker and then took a pellet gun from the locker and placed it in the girlfriend’s car. Prior to arriving at the hospital, Nichols’s girlfriend removed a knife from Nichols’s clothing and put it in the console of her car.

“Law enforcement officers conducted a search of the storage locker and discovered a shotgun hidden behind a piece of furniture, and ammunition. A knife was recovered from the girlfriend’s car.

“An autopsy of Vang revealed that Vang had been shot once with a shotgun, wounding him in his right arm, neck, head and torso. The autopsy also indicated that Vang had been stabbed six times; five to the front of the neck and once to his left cheek. Vang also had a laceration behind his right ear and had a three to four inch long wooden stick protruding from his mouth. The autopsy determined that the cause of death was multiple stab wounds, which severed the jugular vein, and the shotgun wounds. Investigators believe that Vang was shot from a closer distance than claimed by Nichols and that Vang was turning away when shot.

[irvingdog]

This guy murdered Vang. If I'm wrong, I'll eat my hat. Multiple violations, not the least of which is a convicted felon in possession of a firearm. I'm a big 2nd amendment proponant. So much so that I believe that if convicted felons are in possession of a firearm (there is a petition process if you feel you can/want to have that repealed from your status) that your next visit to camp Stonewall should be real nice and long.

Let's take language out of this equation. Let's take ethic origin out of the equation. Nichols is german, I'm Irish, Vang was Hmong. Big hairy freaking deal. The only difference between the 3 of us s that Nichols is a murderer, who then cowardly shot himself in the hand to cop the self defense plea.

This guy should suffer the same penalty as Chia Soua Vang. I have no mercy for either of them.

/Yes, I jumped to that conclusion.

//Doubt i'll be eating my hat

///size 7 7/8, and I ain't that hungry

[lunker651]

Looks like he want to go back to that place he just got out of.

Lock him up, No parole, Case close!!!

[McGurk]

Lock him up with Chai Vang, and let them discuss this for a while. Like life without parole.

Another bruise for hunting in general; let's all put our best foot forward when representing ourselves hunting and fishing.

[lunker651]

Quote:

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Lock him up with Chai Vang, and let them discuss this for a while.

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I agree, That's not a bad idea.

[fisherman-andy]

There is alot of misunderstanding in these stories and alot of people take it the wrong way especially when the whole stories aren't told properly. You can blame the media for a big part of the problem.

Take for example the Chai Vang case from a couple years ago. You may find it shocking to hear the undisclosed info I found through sources that the media or news did not report to the public the complete story. (Not by any means am I making accusations or taking sides here on any party by providing this info, Im only referencing undisclosed info on what was needed to be heard leading up to the tragic events, info that the media left out) Below is factual info you probably never knew about the Chai Vang case:

Terry Willers and Lauren Hesebeck have testified that the party of 6 chased down Vang on 3 ATVs to confront him after he apologized to Willers, asked for directions, and was leaving the property peacefully (Willer’s words).

Both testified that Bob Crotteau initiated this move, and got in Vang’s face along with Alan Laski. All testimony agrees that Crotteau threatened to "kick your [expletive? epithet?] a$$" if Vang came back.(The only variance is how forceful the statement was made, and if there were racial slurs & profanity accompanying the threat)

Willers also admits that Crotteau "flipped" Vang's back tag after his son prevented Vang from leaving a second time, but that no one touched Vang (yet all testimony agrees that Vang's backpack was covering the obscured back tag); to unslinging his rifle (defensively - according to him) just before Vang opened fire. Hesebeck's admitted to firing at Vang (Before or after? This admission was previously unreported - even in the police report, and with little forensic evidence to support the claim, non was conducted? Why?)

(Willers’ words) last words to his son before being taken to the hospital were “… it was stupid, what happened was stupid”. (Ask yourself why one would say such a thing? Was the events that happened completely voidable?)

Chai Vang had an Saiga hunting rifle, not a SKS assault rifle like the media reported.

The Chai Vang case should be view as a lesson & tragedy. Each party played a part to the lead of the whole situation which seemed completely voidable. Chai Vang deserved what he got for killing the victims. There is no justice here, only sorrow. We must learn to live in harmony and not take such a case for the bad. I don't believe the Chai Vang case had anything to do with racial but more of anger. Where one man was probably driven to do the things he shouldn't have done.

So this brings up the idea if the current case at hand involving Cha Vang & Nicols was an issue of racial? I think it might of played a part, but again one man's anger lead to another man's death which again was a voidable situation. Nichols is in my mind & opinion completely guilty due to overwhelming evidence. How can you make such claims as:

1. Nichols laid claims that he had a verbal arguement with Vang when Vang spoke little or no English.

2. Nichols claim to be shot in the hands but yet there was 2 shotgun wounds, 6 stabs to the neck area and a wooden stake driven into Vang's mouth. The body was then hidden.

3. Nichols hides the murder weapons & doesn't report to the proper authorities.

4. Nichols is a previous criminal for such felons as burglary & writing or spray painting KKK on the places he robbed or vandalized.

5. Was in violation of his probation, and had firearms in which by all means felons are prohibited to have.

However this case turns out, it is clear that Nichols is guilty and will deserve what he will be getting. There even was the speculation that the 6 stabs Vang received was for the 6 victims in the Chai Vang case from a couple years ago? Or was it just all a coincidence? That I can't answer as we don't know the whole story and once again the media will do a good job of withholding viable info to the public.

From this whole ordeal I find it disconcerning that we as a community have'nt learn to participate in such for harmony regardless of racial ethnic background.

Instead we get into stereotyping & the spreading misinformation. Even sometimes when the correct education is provided they are ignored because of the race ethnic issue. We must understand that such an event is due to an individual's own action & not because of their own racial ethnic background.

To those of you who think the Hmong ethnic group are uneducated you are very wrong. They are very well educated and the majority do follow the rules of the law just like everyone else. Unfortunately like every society there is always mis-haps & individuals within each community that don't follow the rules. Do not stereotype such incidence as reason for your own believe & right. If you do your are no better. Learn to deal & come to an understanding of the situation at hand in a peaceful way. Don't be so quick to judge a hunter of different ethnic race that you encounter on your next hunting trip. Just because they are of a different color doesn't mean they are bad and that they don't abide by the law...

[almostthere!]

Well written, Andy.

[Note from admin: Edited. Please read forum policy before posting again.]

[jlm]

Glad to see this thread has turned for the better. Whatever the case, its a very unfortunate situation and I agree, another black eye for the hunting community. Just remember one thing all, we are all hunters. To keep our rights in this country, we need all the numbers we can get in our ranks! Good luck all!