Minnesota Flathead Anglers - Please Read ASAP

[Dirk W]

OK guys, it looks like the 7 inch bullhead law is "on the table" and the DNR is going to take a look at it. Adding sunfish looks unlikely but we can certainly try. Below is a "rough draft" with issues I could come up with, even ones that may sound silly. Read it over and feel free to critique it and add suggestions. I'll add to the list and send it to the powers at the DNR soon. Keep you fingers crossed!!

Bullheads, Sunfish, and Minnesota’s 7 Inch Law

Discussion Points

1. Most, if not all, Minnesota flathead anglers believe Minnesota’s bait regulations regarding flathead fishing are excessively restrictive and greatly limit opportunities for successful fishing. For example, in Minnesota only bullheads under seven inches (considered minnows) can be transported alive over land, thus making only small bullheads legal. In addition, only suckers under 12 inches may be used. Sunfish of any kind are illegal to use as bait in Minnesota. Other states in the region (Iowa, Wisconsin and Illinois) allow sunfish and bullheads of any size to be used as bait for flatheads. Other states that border the Mississippi have similar laws.
2. Bullheads under 7 inches are not adequate for trophy flathead fishing. Suckers found in bait stores are not active enough to attract flatheads, die quickly, and the proper sizes are nearly impossible to find. The practical difference between a 7 and an 8-9 inch bullhead inch bullhead if very real.
3. Border water bait laws are very difficult to sort through and understand. Fishing partners from different states - Wisconsin for example, can sit side by side in the boat and fish for flatheads but only the Wisconsin resident can use Sunfish and bullheads of any size. Questions such as bait storage, out of state licenses, imaginary lines separating Minnesota water from Wisconsin water, etc. are difficult to understand and even DNR officials from each state seem to interpret the laws differently.
4. Except for border waters, Minnesota only allows one pole per angler, Wisconsin lets their anglers, at least on Mississippi, use three. This example further explains Minnesota flathead anglers frustration. Not only can we not use adequate bait (bullheads over seven inches and sunfish), we are restricted to fewer poles.
5. The compliance rates for the 7-inch bullhead law are probably very low. The law makes violators out of otherwise law-abiding anglers. Until recently most anglers did not even know the law existed.
6. On a practical note, catching enough bullheads for bait is often difficult enough and very time consuming. Getting enough “legal” bullheads just under 7 inches often proves to be exceptionally difficult. Measuring bullheads is difficult. Grabbing them hard enough to handle and measure rubs their slime off making them susceptible to disease, and bullhead “stings” are unavoidable.
7. Catfish anglers from other states fishing border waters do not buy Minnesota out-of-state licenses. They buy from other states because their laws are more reasonable.

[foods]

on issues 1 to 7 i say:
amen brother.
i would also add that trophy flathead anglers tend to be catch-and-release as evidenced by the huge percentage of them using circle hooks.

let me know if there is anything else i can do.

cheers,
-foods

[This message has been edited by foods (edited 07-01-2004).]

[This message has been edited by foods (edited 07-01-2004).]

[Rick]

Good on you Dirk!!!!

That's exactly what needs to be said and cleaned up.

I would add that it doesn't matter if it's border waters or not. What purpose does their sucker, sunfish (geen sunfish would be preferred) and bullhead rule serve anyway?

If it doesn't serve a legit biological purpose then it should be done away with. If it causes anglers on the same waters to be treated differantly depending on what state they're from, it should be done away with as well.

[Wiskers]

Ahmen......Well said.

[Aquaman01]

Hmm - let me preface by stating that I am on-board with the spirit of your statement. MN game laws are by and large altogether too restrictive for my tastes. Now allow me to play Devil's advocate.

A common thread which runs through MN game laws is the prevention of species introduction where they don't belong. By allowing a flathead angler to have 10 live sunfish in his baitwell, any angler is then allowed to transport 10 live sunfish from one body of water to another.

Does it stop at sunfish? A semi-informed angler may choose to experiment with Sheepshead or Mooneye ABOVE the CoonRapids dam and introduce them where they are yet unseen.

The DNR sponsors programs to eliminate excess bullhead from certain waters - if someone can legally transport a pregnant 12" bullhead and some fertile males from one body of water to another, there is an infiltration risk.

I'm not trying to shoot down your action - I'm all for grass-roots initiatives, but there are reasons for the existing laws, and those points must be addressed.

A possible solution is a Flathead stamp which would allow anglers a limited set of privelages (two lines, different baits, baitwell limits, etc) on certain waters, such as the Missy and Minnesota below the Ford Dam. Back up your case with #'s representing flathead anglers, and pair it with a stamp fee $ and showing a $$ gain for the state. That kind of pitch might add the right amount of sugar to get your ideas looked at. I know it seems shmoozy, but the fact is...everything in this world starts with a sale.

Good luck,
Rob

[Dennis Steele]

I doubt very much that sunfish will ever be allowed as bait in MN.The reduction of bag limits on panfish last year give us an indication of this.I can live with that...It would be nice though.
As far as the bullhead thing.I do believe there is a possibility that the size limit can be changed.I do not beleive that increasing the size will introduce bullheads into waters where they are not common.There are allready lots of bullheads swimming in the waters where flatheads are fished.Should a pike or muskie fisherman decide to try bullheads,(not a likely or common sitiuation anyway)there are allready large bullheads in a lot of these waters and the predatory fish will control the popuation if introduced to waters where there are none at this point.If you look at northern waters with good populations of large predator fish and populations of bullheads,the bullhead population is low and the typical bullhead is on the large size allready.

I believe that to really get this thing looked at we all need to write to our lawmakers and let them know we would appreciate them taking a look at the issue and vote for increasing the size of bullheads.A petition may also get our words heard.

[rushing]

Having bullies bigger than 7ins would be nice and I would love to be able to fish two rods on MN River and Aquaman’s idea of a flathead stamp would be cool with me too.

Thanks for the post Dirk!
Tight Lines
Rob

[HighLife100]

One of our major panfish problems is the overabundance of stunted sunfish in our lakes. One possible way to try and overcome this would be to allow sunfish to be harvested for bait on waters that have this problem. I doubt it will ever happen though.

[Flashman]

I too would like to see the 7in rule changed along with the single line rule. Most if not all the flatheads are released anyway. I strongly doubt that the sunfish rule would be changed. Just my 2cents worth.

[Lost]

I agree with you! Sunfish would be great bait, not just for flatheads, but other larger predatorial fish as well. I've seen people catch a sunny and have a bass or northern swim up and grab it before it got pulled out of the water. This led to hooking two fish at once.

I'd love to be able to use two poles at once as well. I would enjoy deadsticking as well as casting/retrieving at the same time.

[DARK30]

Size restrictions on bullheads makes no sense...suckers either. Panfish would be a tough sell though.

How about declaring the Mississippi from the Ford Dam downstream (Including its tributaries) as "experimental waters". Two lines, No bait size restrictions, include sunfish, and best of all.. ALL FLATHEADS MUST BE RELEASED...period. Somebody has to break that old Flathead record pretty soon!

I also LOVE the idea of a Flathead stamp! I've always wondered why the artists have skipped the catfish all the time and gone with the usuall bass, trout, and walleyes. I've been hinting to a couple of Artists I know to paint a Catfish once...You may be surprised at amt of prints that get sold!

I had the idea of paying for an extra line a while ago...You pay say $20 for being able to use the extra line and not have any fish in your possesion. Its a win-win deal (you and the dnr). It could be implemented on only certain waters too like the rivers I mentioned above. As it stands right now, getting caught with two lines and big bait could cost plenty more! Yikes!

WET NETS!

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cast,cast,cast,cast......

[rushing]

Yeah a flathead stamp would be great! I think with a flathead stamp you should be able to fish 2 lines. Most flathead fisherman practice catch and release anyways so I dont really see the problem.

rob

[Rainman]

Sorry guys but I have to disagree on the flathead stamp! The last thing we need is another stamp to buy! What stamp will they come up with next, a gravel stamp just to drive on gravel roads! How about a fart stamp so we can pass gas! I buy enough stamps in a year and don't believe we need anymore! IMO!!

[DARK30]

Truthfully, A farting stamp would happen before a Flathead stamp anyway. Catfishing just isn't that popular in Minnesota. It would be fun to see the artist's catfish paintings though. The actual collecting of stamps and buying the prints to go along with them has all but gone bye bye.

Anyways!.... Why not Bullheads over 7" for bait is the question. I prefer creek chubs and wild suckers but bullheads can help out big time in a pinch. I'll be honest, If I need bait and only can get bigger bullheads...oh well.

As far as the "old" two line issue...I still say, Using two lines could be worked out if they wanted too and I say charge extra for it. The DNR could use the money. I don't see why they couldn't work with the fisherman's needs and also be competitive with the surrounding states. We are entering the age of special regs for specific needs for both the angler and the state. There are lots of special rules for select waters and I feel very strongly that we need to look at better catfish/catfishing management. Looking at some of the new regs in some of the southern states concerning catfish, It looks like they want to keep (most) people happy and conserve the resource too...It can be done.

WET NETS!

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cast,cast,cast,cast......

[This message has been edited by Rick (edited 07-04-2004).]

[ironman]

MN is a 1 line island in a 2 line sea. Every state around us is able to use two lines...last I checked the fishing in WI is pretty good. I do have a question though...so If I buy a WI license and am fishing a border water I can use two lines, use sunfish/bullheads...but with my MN license I cant? Is it side specific? IF that's the case that should be changed...if the regs arn't consistent for every angle on a body of water...what good is it? After I win the lottery I'll try my luck at the sunfish bait issue...good luck with that one.

[Dirk W]

The answer is no. If you are a MN resident you cannot buy a out-of-state WI license and then use their rules. You must abide by the stricter Minnesota law.

[Cooter]

Best of luck to you guys with this issue. Living in WI, I think you guys are seriously handicapped by those restrictions. I catch 90% of my flatheads on bluegills, the rest on perch or walleyes. Store bought suckers are inferior bait, period. I fish at least 2 lines, and 3 if I'm fishing alone. Whats wrong with a law such as ours that allows bluegills (or any legal fish) to be used for bait as long as it was caught in the same body of water? Fight the good fight gentlemen!

[ironman]

But a WI license you could use two lines from shore on the WI side right? IF so...I'll just fish from there.

[foods]

i have always been under the impression that in border waters MN anglers can use two lines. i could be wrong on that tho...

-foods

[Rick]

MN anglers can fish two lines on Mississippi River border waters.

[Cooter]

Jim - Wish I could tell you what to do with two rods and two flatheads, but it hasn't happened yet. I'd sure like to find out though!

[Jim W]

This isn't directed at all catfisherman(just one named fishhead)
If you can't eat'em they aren't a game fish!LOL
Plus, keeping a trophy rarely occurs? Why not?
Wanna mount a 50 pound flat?

No seriuously, I like the stamp idea if the funds collected were directly utilized, enhancing and managing catfish and their waters.

Tell me this. If you were fishing alone and with two rods, what does a guy do with two trophy cats on at once!LOL

I believe it should be an option to use two lines no matter where you fish. HEck use 5 if you want...if you can and would actually enjoy yourself!

Jim W

[katchaser]

Two rods and two flathead at the same time?

Either hope you were fishing with a buddy, get ambidextrous quickly, be very talented and barefoot, and be very good at decision making.

If you are fishing with reels out of gear and clickers on, you may have a little time to consider the options

I am very interested at the process of getting regulations changed. Wish you all the best.

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Catchabiggun,
Robby

[Ed Carlson]

The biggest obstacle for the 7" rule is the bait transport regulation now on the books. They take that issue seriously in MN and so do the bordering states, so that is a big stumbling block for change at this time. The new live bait transport regs just instituted just further complicate the matter. It may take some serious lobbying at the state legislature to get anything changed?

As for 2 lines for Flatheads.

A friend of mine whom you all are sure to have heard of, Pete Maina, is in a similar fight for the muskie in WI. Similar in that it looks to the future of a trophy fish and the continued enjoyment of the fishing opportunity's for the angler.

He is trying to get the state to institute a Muskie Stamp. The funds generated from this stamp would be used to stimulate stocking and research on muskie. The benefit to the angler is if you wish to harvest a Muskie you must have a stamp in your possession prior to the harvest.

How would such a similar Stamp program benefit the Flathead and the Flathead fisherman?

1- Only a Flathead stamp bearer could use the second line. Non stamp owners would be limited to one line.

2- All funds would go to Flathead restocking and or research.

3- In order to harvest any Flathead over 24" in MN you must have first purchased a stamp.

4- In order to use or possess Bullheads in excess of 7" a Flathead stamp must be purchased.

(A few General ideas but not the only ones I am sure.)

Maybe it is time to fallow the led of the conservation minded Muskie fisherman? We have the same concerns and much the same obstacles in state funding and enforcement.

I feel the Flathead Conservation stamp may be the best avenue to insure the fishery is protected and a bright future is insured for the Flathead.

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Backwater Guiding
"ED on the RED"
701-893-9107

[email protected]

[This message has been edited by Rick (edited 08-30-2004).]

[riverrat56]

my one question is why cant you use fish from the water you are fishing in for bait? there is no chance to contaminate the water with something and it would really open up fishing oppertunitys for flats. i agree big bullheads should be fair game for bait. sunnies to because if sunfish get into a river system there not going to ruin it, the big fish will get to many of them and the river is to big for a few sunnies to populate. just my thoughts on it.