Winter Camping?

[Hooliganz]

How many of you guys/gals do the winter camping? Been thinking of trying it while up in superior nat. ice fishing but not sure if im that brave What do you think is a good sleeping bag and pad combo ?

[Tom Linderholm]

Hooliganz, I was looking at your post and remembered seeing a pretty informative topic in the Duluth Forum so I searched it out for ya.

Hope this helps.

Winter Camping

[Hooliganz]

Thanks Chef

[Powerstroke]

I'll chime in and say I love the winter camping. I just started a couple years ago, but I haven't ventured into the BWCA winter adventure. I don't have the skis or snoshoes to make this happen but its all a matter of time.

The sled that ST was talking abot in his post is called a pulk. They are designed to be towed behind you while you ski, shoe or hike. Hiking is tough cause you sink into deep snow really easy.

I simply use my 4-man backpacking tent when I go. Technically its a 3-season and couldn't handle a heavy snow load, but so far I will avoid winter camping when heavy snow is predicted (does that happen anymore?). A CLOSED-CELL foam pad is the key to keeping warm in bed. Closed cell doesn't compress like egg-crate foam or similar "summer-use" foam pads. I use a Thermarest inflatable 4-season pad and a 2 closed cell pads underneith. I make them wide in case I roll off my inflatable I don't contact the ground and I've stacked them when its really cold. The closed cell pads I got at Target or Walmart for really cheap, LIke $6 for the roll. They are at REI too. Theirs are a bit thicker, but the price is higher too.

I use a down mummy bag (rated 20*F). I haven't ever camped in below zero yet, but thats been a matter of good weather. I have a wool cover for the bag that I picked up at a surplus store to use this year. I also plan on getting a fleece liner to try. I like the mummybag since it has the hood to cover my face. Keeps your whole head warm and allows you to breath out the opening instead of into the bag or your clothes trapping moisture.

I do not use a heater or stove. Some people swear by them, but IMO they aren't necessary. Its like using a cot when camping, I kinda think of it as cheating. Just my opinion.

Proper clothing and staying dry are the keys. Having the proper clothing will keep you dry no matter how hard you work. I have 2 pairs of base layer long undies, 2 pair of heavy fleece long undies and then layer according to the weather. Sometimes when its warm or I've been cutting wood I'll have only the 2 layers of long johns on, but I am warm and my clothes breathe. Also remember your feet. I bring at least 2 pairs of socks for each day up to 6 pairs. That way you can dry out and change often.

The final thing is eating and drinking. Bring whatever you like. Try to avoid caffeine and alcohol in large amounts. They will dehydrate you. Alcohol can also impair you so you don't know you're getting too cold.

If you use a stove that requires fuel, liquid fuels are best. Propane "slows down" in cold temps and is less efficient. White gas or canister stoves do much better. You will use less fuel too. Melting snow is the worst way to get water, but it also most available(except right now). Snow is usually more air than water unles you got a really wet heavy snow. Snow is usually like 6" of snow to 1 inch of water. It can take a long time to get enough water and its possible to burn your pan when warming really light snow. Becareful with water filters because water can freeze in the element and break internal parts.

And of course, try practicing somewhere close to home or a state park where there is help nearby or a place to bail out. No need to make a bad experience worse by toughing it out or getting caught without the right gear. I would Superior NF is not the place I would try winter camping for the first time. Although with a little practice and finding out what works for you and what to bring I think it would be an awesome trip.

[bellyup]

Hey fellas,

My friends and I from Chisholm used to have our parents drop us off for the weekend within hiking distance of one of our secret fishing ponds around the old mines. We've started camping on our own when we were 14, too young to drive. Parents probably glad to get us out of their hair for the weekend. We would have a set time for pick-up on sun. Have some awsome memories from those days! When I was 21 I moved to southern mn to work construction. Now I'm back and won't take for granted any minute I get to do what I've always had a passion for.

[DigitalFisherman]

Powerstroke gave alot of good advise. Staying dry and eating/drinking alot cannot be emphisized enough, especially durring the night. Keep a water bottle in your sleeping bag so the water stays warm and if you wake up durring the night, drink some water and have a bite of a candy bar or power bar... food/water = fuel

As for a sleeping bag, I also use a mummy bag for the same reasons that powerstroke listed. I also picked up an overbag which is basiclly an oversized mummy bag that your regular bag fits into; it is very compact and adds about 20 degrees of warmth plus it can be used by itself for summer camping.

Winter camping is well worth the effort; have fun.

[mcary]

If your still looking for advice, I'll give my two cents worth. Powerstroke covered the topic pretty thoroughly, but I would like to emphasize the importance of the sleeping pads. You lose most of your heat through contact with cold ground and I can attest to this. I did a night in Jay Cooke without a proper pad and it was miserable. I, like Powerstroke, double up the sleeping pads now. Closed cell foam underneath an inflatable thermarest. A good bag also helps. I use a Marmot Never Summer mummy style sleeping bag. It's rated to 0 degrees Fahrenheit and has been extremely comfortable when used with the proper sleeping pad combination in temps as low as single digits above zero. If you plan on doing a lot of winter camping I would recommend a bag with at least a 0 degree rating. We all know that the temps can dip that low in a hurry in a typical MN winter. An additional bag liner is also a relatively cheap way to add a few extra degrees of rating. I have a microfleece bag liner that functions well.

[Duffman]

I'm headed up this weekend for some camping and I'll throw out some more tips. Liquid management is difficult this time of year, I bring a soft cooler to keep my beverages from freezing. And every night before I go to bed I'll boil some water and put it in some empty plastic bottles and then throw them in the cooler to keep stuff from freezing over night.

I use a monster doublewide 3 1/2" inches thick thermarest type pad that takes up the entire floor of my two man tent. I take two sleeping bags, both down filled, one is a zero rated and the other is a summer bag. The summer bag is used like a blanket over the top of the other bag. I also will throw a chemical hand warmer in the bag with me before I turn in, I name the handwarmers Candy or Bambi.

I also have a sportcat heater in the tent with me, I'll fire it up before I call it a night, makes getting undressed for bed much more tolerable. If it gets really cold I'll wake up and turn on and off the heater a couple times a night to dry the condensation on the inside of the tent and to warm me up. Ditto in the morning, fire it up an hour before I plan to get up.

Make sure you put camp things away before bedtime, nothing like waking up the next day and trying to locate gear under 4" of fresh snow.

It's dark for a majority of the 24 hours, so having a few different sources of light helps.

We bring fireside clothes, to keep our nicer gore-tex type outfits from getting burnt. Bring a good 30" bow saw, the fire is your best friend this time of year.

If the crappers are fiberglass seats out in the open like the ones in the BWCA, I bring a pair of furry chopper mitts to keep my Duff from freezing while I'm taking care of business, funny, nobody borrows my choppers.

[Fishing_Rookie_123_]

Just to add my .02 to what everyone else has said:

I use a pulk made out of a regular plastic kids sled. I drilled some holes around the perimeter and ran my tow rope through them all and out the front. Use this rope as tiedown points for your tarp wrapped bundle. Whoever said keep your wrapped bundle low profile is right. I took a friend last year and I was constantly waiting on him because on the portages between lakes his high profile sled was constantly tipping over. I run the ropes that come out the front of the sled through through about 3 or 4 feet (whatever it takes to keep it off of your heels/showshoes/skis) of 3/4" pvc pipe and attach them to the waist belt of my external frame backpack with carabiners. The pvc poles keep the sled from running over you or your skis/snowshoes when going downhill. PVC seems kind of fragile in cold weather, but it is cheap and neither of the two sleds that I built with it have had the poles break yet going on 3 years (knock on wood).

In addition to a couple of sleeping pads I prefer to use layers of thinner sleeping bags. I bring 3 and sleep on top of whatever I don't need, plus I can use my summer bags for this and I don't need to buy a dedicated winter bag that can't be used all summer. Sleep with a hat on, it will keep you much warmer. I also just bought a Coleman Powercat portable heater in the hopes of getting my girlfriend to go out more. These heaters use a catalytic heating element whos byproduct is carbon dioxide (safe) instead of carbon monoxide (deadly). I tried it out earlier this winter and it kept my 4 man dome tent nice and toasty. I do eat high energy foods for warmth at night, but avoid liquids which require body heat to heat up in your bladder (unless it was warm drinks) and I try to avoid having to get up and pee in the cold. I will even use an empty bottle to pee in so that I don't have to get up on cold nights (I know, this is gross. Just don't confuse your pee bottle with your water bottle .)

Bring a full sized bow saw and maybe even a full sized axe. I build tiny fires all summer long and the bigger fires you can build in the winter are a luxury.

I just bought a portable shelter that folds up to about 10"x10"x4' that I plan on taking in. Unfolded it is 70"x70"x80". I haven't tried this yet, but I don't see why it wont work perfectly.

I know this sounds like a lot of gear, but with the sled and a full size external frame backpack I can really haul in a lot of gear, and if you have a couple few people to split shared gear with it isn't bad at all. Also, in the winter you can get away from the crowds by walking in only a mile or two.

Have fun figuring out how to do one of my favorite pasttimes.

[wingnutken]

Here's a few more pennys for the pot if its not too late. I have done alot of winter camping trips but I only go out for short trips usually three days and two nights.

Working up a sweat is your worst enemy.

Layer your clothes and sleep in your first layer.

Below zero, wear two pair of socks with a pair of hand warmers in between them when you go to bed. A hand warmer tossed into the bag helps also if it is not below zero.

Wear a hat to bed when its cold but also bring a head band so you can switch if your head gets too warm.

Use a thin pair of gloves in the tent when you are moving around, bare skin gets cold fast in below zero temps.

Use a head lamp instead of a hand held flashlight.

Don't sleep directly on top of an air matress. Use a closed cell foam pad next to your sleeping bags with a survival blanket between the pad and your bag.

Keep your tent vented. Your tent walls will get covered with frost if you don't and it will snow on you if you touch the tent walls and you will get very wet.

Don't get out of bed at night to P. Bring a bottle to bed with you, expecially if it's below zero.

I don't care what a bag is rated for ,2 bags are better than one. Put your boot liners in between your bags to keep them from freezing.

Keep your meals simple so you don't have to expose your bare hands. Avoid having to clean any dishes.

Always include something hot with your meal. Make a menu that requires boiling water or cooking over a camp fire.There are alot of dehydrated meals available that taste good and you can eat it right out of the bag. The only thing you have to clean is a fork or spoon.

Even if its cold out it is a good idea to hang your sleeping bag outside if it is sunny. This will help to dry it out from perspiration.

I could go on forever, hope these tips help. Ken

[bellyup]

Awsome input wingnutken!!

[minndonn]

I did some winter camping 30 years ago both during hunting season and a couple weekends into the boundary waters. One of the first times winter camping we were grouse hunting and the night got pretty cold with regular sleeping bags. We nearly got into an fight about who got to sleep with the dog. Call it a one dog night because we only had one dog along. . After that I purchased a thick down mummy bag good to 20 below and used an ensolite sleeping pad (closed cell). I have slept in 20 below a couple times and it is worth the money. Made two trips into the boundary waters, the second when it got to 20 below and the snow was between 3 and 4 feet deep. We only skied in a few miles on the trail since we were the first ones in. With thick loose snow and the weight of the back packs you are breaking a lot trail. With that deep snow we decided not to dig down the tent to ground level. We put the tent up and the sleeping bags in without compressing the snow too much. When we went to bed we slid in we were able to compress the snow to a comfortable shape. Actually the most comfortable bed I have had camping. The heals are one point that gets cold very easy as it compresses down what ever insulation you have. For this I depressed the snow under my heals. Otherwise I would put some clothing under my ankles for the same reason. I also wear a stocking cap and on the very cold nights would were a masked cap when 20 below. I also used a worn out hand towel over my face when sleeping. It helped keep my nose and face warmer and reduced the frost in the tent. I always kept a couple of candy bars to eat during the night for extra energy when I got cold. Since we were skiing with backpacks using several sleeping bags was not an option. We tried a small heater but in the extreme cold it did not work well. Good warm equipment was better than using a heater.

[dirtking]

I love to camp in the BWCA during the winter - A co-worker told me to take a old square sleeping bag and put a mummy bag inside - Ever since I have never even thought about getting cold even in 20 below territory.

[fisherking01]

Great information! With all of that I still can't talk my wife into it! 15 years ago, maybe would have had a chance! One night in 15 degree snow covered tent with zero rated bag and she said never again. As kids into college we (friends and I) camped in winter. Got to find out all the negatives on our own, Wish I would have read this post back then!! Come to think of it if I had all of the products that we have available today, what a difference! I'd immagine you can be pretty comfortable winter camping. Once again thanks for the great information, I'm saving it for my son, he talks about winter camping and I'll bet he hasn't thought about a lot of this stuff. Brent

[Powerstroke]

The abundance of high tech gear nowadays means the average person can stay very comfortable in low temps quite easily.

If you think you might want to try it again and you want to convice the wife, try to plan it somewhere close like a state park where if things go sour you can drive home or go inside somewhere. Don't bring a camper along or you'll be tempted to use it and won't give the camping a fair chance.

[fishermann222]

Great advice so far. I use to camp alot out of a tent down to 20 below. A few more things I will mention. Buy a big enough bag to put your boots in bed with you. If you get a good bag you it wicks moisture away from you and will even dry your clothes. When I camp out and it is that cold my boots, and any clothes that might be damp go int he bag with me, they are dry in the morning. BECAUSE I have a good bag. Look into a Wiggy's bag.

One other trick is you can boil water and put it in a nalgene and put that in your bag before you go to bed. It warms up the bag nicely