ZONE 3 Discussion (general discussion)?

[96trigger]

Hear are some of the scenarios that I am seeing with the way 3A and 3B are playing out. This is up for discussion and I have truely mixed feelings on the topic, but here goes.

Is it helping the deer herd that buck hunters can shoot does?

If you hunt 3B, is the number of deer that you are seeing decreasing?

Here is what I have gotten out of it.

3A which used to be strictly buck hunting now has the option of does being taken. During the buck season, Many does are being shot (at) and harvested. A pro of this is that maybe some of these buckhunters are leaving immature bucks go for QDM and are taking does.

Here is the problem. Your average 3B hunter is a meat hunter, not a trophy hunter. They like deer so they take the season which used to have the better odds of seeing the most deer. With the new buck season taking does, we have noticed a significant decrease in the amount of deer that we see. However, we have seen a large increase in the amount of bucks being sighted (which is great, it means 3B hunters still have a chance to get a crack at a big buck).

This year, my hunting party shot 7 deer. 4 of them were bucks under 3 years, 1 was mature, and the other 2 were does. Do I blame them for shooting small bucks, heck no, for two of them it was the only deer they saw. QDM will not work if the 3B doe hunters, can't find any does.

So then we start talking about why we wouldn't just all hunt 3A? Noboday had a good answer, except that we like thanksgiving week. I for one would have no problem switching seasons, if this were to happen, 3A hunters would have increased pressure in the woods and decreased area with the increase in hunters.

One last point, I'm sure many of the FMers on here wouldn't think about it, but if I had one week to hunt deer, I wouldn't leave it up to a lottery to determine if I could take a doe, I'd kick in the extra cash and buy the all season license, that way I'd get to shoot a buck and a doe, leaving less and less for the 3B hunters, which are supposed to help manage the deer population.

I know this is long, I was just wondering if any of you are having the same thoughts. I personally did just fine over 3B, granted, I hunted almost every morning and every evening for 9 straight days. I did not see the deer I had seen previous years.

FYI, the amount of deer I saw during the bow season has greatly increased in the area, I don't believe that a decline in population is the answer.

Please weigh in even if you don't hunt zone 3, I'd like to hear your comments. I can honestly see the pros and cons of both and I don't think anything is going to change, its just food for thought.

[almostthere!]

Quote:

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One last point, if I had one week to hunt deer, I wouldn't leave it up to a lottery to determine if I could take a doe, I'd kick in the extra cash and buy the all season license, that way I'd get to shoot a buck and a doe, leaving less and less for the 3B hunters.

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Actually, you still have to register for the lottery if you want to shoot a doe in a lottery area during the 3A season. What you could do is shoot 2 does and a buck via bow and arrow or you can shoot 3 does with a combination of two does by archery and one doe (only if you are drawn in the lottery) by slug.

[96trigger]

Almost, you are right, but only 5 out of 12 are lottery. Most are intesive and management. I just read the regs, man are they confusing. 5 lottery areas for 3A, only one for 3B. Massive confusion can set in on what to shoot and what not to shoot.

[OUTDOORNUT]

I just wish I could Muzzle hunt around Duluth, but I hunt 3B. I like that there isn't a huge influx of hunters that weekend (all season license not allowed in 3B) but there seems to be plenty of deer for everyone. Guess I'll have to take up bow hunting and shot the Big Buck with the arrow. Not that there isn't a lot of big bucks in 3B, but they get a tad smarter once they have been shot at during 3A.

[Powerstroke]

Well, I guess I would have to argue that you can't make a blanket statement about all 3B hunters being meat hunters. I know several people who hunt in Zone 3, 3B specifically and they relish the opportunity to trophy hunt big bucks in big buck territory.

I for one don't know a lot about the area so I can't give any insight about why there even is a A/B season structure. They do the same in Zone 4 too.

What I do know is that in zones 1 and 2, you best bet to see a deer of any size is gonna be opening morning. After that it all depends on hunting pressure from the total number of hunters in the field and compound that with how much shooting was actually done.

Something that I see done way more in the agricultural zones of the state is deer drives. It is difficult to be effective at doing organized deer drives in large tracts of woods. IN the ag areas of the state, this seems to be a popular way of finding and moving deer. This seems to me to be a huge contributer to reduced daytime deer movement and pushes a lot of deer into their deepest darkest spots.

The people who will suffer the most from this are the hunters that hunt the second season.

[smilee_54]

My party hunts 3b. It seems like there are sightings of fewer deer in the area. We saw more bucks than does this year which is usually the opposite any other year. We ended up harvesting a basket seven and eight pointer and a nice eight and ten point buck and also three does. It also doesn't seem like there are that many people hunting in the land around us. When we push the deer they don't come back because the hunting pressure is not there. We went to check out some state land and we saw one person(sleeping).

I think there is less hunting pressure in the area

[zepman]

My party hunts the 3B season as well. We have also noticed an increase in bucks of all size. This year for example we took three 10 pointers and a six. One of the 10 pointers was big. We continue to see lot's of does and I really don't think the #'s of deer have changed that dramatically over the last few years. We have also noticed a lack of hunters in the woods surrounding the area we hunt. This can be frustrating as the deer figure this out quickly and bed down on property that is untouched for this season. One thing I will say about the 3A and 3B seasons is I hope they never combine them into one season. If this happens, we along with many other parties we know will be completely left with no place left to hunt. We have hunted on private property for years and the landowner and his family/friends have always hunted 3A for themselves. I would assume that this is a practice that is shared by many in this region. This would have a completely reverse effect on what is trying to be done with managing the herd over there. You would simply lose hundreds of hunters in the field because of lack of access to the private lands. I think that by allowing the 3A hunters to bag a few does has increased the # of bucks in this area. I think they should also make 3B an "earn a buck" season where you would have to kill a doe before shooting a buck. It seems like every year our group is on pins and needles while waiting to see what the DNR is going to do as far as regulations and seasons go. I hope they do the right thing. So far so good.

[96trigger]

I agree with pretty much all of you. I know that the 3A season does hinder the 3B season. I am seeing more hunters going 3A then ever before, many of them were 3B hunters. This can be very area specific. We used to numerous deer drives and very little sitting, now we do very little driving and more sitting. I'm not sure if the amount of bucks is due to people taking does and leaving the bucks during 3A, or if there are just more bucks around. What has concerned me the last two years is the minnimum number of does being shot during what was always considered the doe season, and the larger amount of small bucks being shot because thats all people are seeing.

PWRStroke, not to argue, but I've got to disagree, the doe season always has been considered the management season. It used to be really tough to see a nice buck during 3B, but was always fairly easy to run into groups of 2-5 does. It was never considered your trophy time. If you were going to try and get a trophy deer, when would you go? During the prime of the rut (3A), or post rut after a week of heavy pressure (3B). Not sure where your friends are going but they kind of have it backwards.

I too wonder what the DNR is going to do next. It can get really confusing.

[Bubbadust]

I had always hunted the 3B season until last year. We switched because we had not been seeing any deer the previous 2 seasons. We switched and saw more deer last year and this year.

[hartner62]

My party has always hunted the 3b season and have always seen deer. Opening weekend we were 2 for 3 and last weekend we hooked up with some guys we know down there and got 13 more. We have also seen more quality bucks during our season then years past. In my opinion the DNR is doing a great job in the area. Overall I'm very happy with the seasons.

[eye1000us]

Our group,that has numbered anywhere from 2 to 8 hunters,has hunted the 3A season for about 12 years on a combination of land locked public and private lands.From year one we practiced qdm and attempted (occasionly someone would screw up and make a bad judgment:-) ) to harvest only mature bucks as did most of the hunters on the properties around us.Up until the last few years we had great hunting.We didn't see alot of deer but we always saw nice bucks and usually managed to get one or two mature bucks every year. The buck to doe ratio,based on our observation was pretty close to 2 to 1 in our area,not scientific,just what we seemed to see.There was really very little presure it seemed and we were hunting relatively normal acting deer.Since they openned up 3A to doe harvest we've seen alot more hunters and alot more pressure,which in our area, has made hunting mature bucks alot tougher (not impossible just harder). Sightings of bucks has diminished considerably for us overall.Also I've seen a decline in the number of hunters practicing qdm ,there seems to be alot of the "its brown its down" mentality now. Since both bucks and does are fair game I think we're seeing alot of people that are new to the 3A season who aren't necesarily concerned with qdm.I think this is taking a toll on the younger bucks.In years past it would be nothing to pass up numerous 1 1/2 - 3 1/2 year old deer per season.Lately we're just not seeing that many younger bucks at all.Hard to directly attribute the sightings to openning up the season to does,its just what we're seeing in our localized area since its happened.While hunting for mature deer is still better here then many areas of the state I really wish that they would go back to 3A being bucks only.Even if they had to put some sort of trophy type restrictions on it.

WARNING SHORT RANT AHEAD!!!

At the same time we've seen an influx of trespassers since this season was openned up to the taking of does.Whether its just a coincidence or not I really can't say but I do know we didn't have some of these issues prior to the season being open to any deer. I know that the people that are trespassing are not practicing any qdm period. If they can tell its a deer they unload.They have no need to determine if its a buck or doe nor do they care whose property it may be on.I have seen two different badly wounded deer that were not even tracked at all, and that really gets my blood boiling.Sorry about getting off track but it really gets me. I'll start a different thread to finsih up some of those thoughts.

So anywhere there's my two cents.

[honker23]

OK I'll add to this discussion too, as I think it is very interesting. My dad has been in 3B for 25-30 yrs and man has it changed. I have been going for 12 yrs now and I have also seen some changes....so here's my take.

I think hunting pressure is at an all time high in our area. This pressure dictates why most 3bers end up in 3b. Most local AND non-local landowners hunt the 3A in search of the trophy during the rut and why wouldn't you, it's your best time to shoot a big one. Then the hunting land owners are happy to let others in 3b to "clean up" their herd by taking the does out to help slim down the buck to doe ratio. But the problem we've had is people with a lot of money from all over the state are buying this land for 5 and even 8 or 10 thousand and acre. Then they hunt the 3A and the no hunting signs are in place to "protect their herd" from the 3b'ers. The deer get no pressure in these little chunks of land and stay for the entire 3b season. So if you hunt next to one of these sanctuaries you will not see much deer movement after the first shots on opening day.

In my opinion the deer population is not being controlled because too many people aren't allowing others to hunt and the ones that are hunting the area with the deer will only shoot 1 or 2 because who can afford to process 5 deer apiece anyways.

If you can hunt a valley between 3 or 4 that are all being hunted you will see a lot of deer. I had this in my stand this year and saw 38 deer in two days of sitting in my stand. But last year I was next to a "Sanctuary" and saw 4 opening day and then nothing. Sorry for this long winded message, but I have seen 5 farms of 300-500 acres switch ownership in 10 years and each one has opted to close them up from us and to "trophy hunt" for one deer a year. That's why I think the population continues to grow despite the 5 deer limit and now the 3a season taking does.

[zepman]

We have seen alot of the same thing in the areas that we hunt as well. Farms and valleys that used to be full of hunters (us included) are now empty except for the "no hunting" signs that now drape across their fences and trees.

[BLACKJACK]

I grew up hunting in zone 4, then moved/lived in zone 3 from 1984 to 1996. In zone 4 in the 80's, any deer was precious and doe permits were treasured. I was amazed at the 'buck mentality' that I encountered in zone 3, only 'real' deer hunters hunted the 3A season and the wusses hunted 3B. It was really a buck only mentality. A whole generation of hunters has been raised to think bucks only. I think that opening up the 3A season to does and bucks will at least teach younger hunters that its ok to shoot does and in the long run help with herd management.

[96trigger]

Great discussion! The mentality has definately changed. I often heard that because I was 3B, I was less of a hunter. It was usually said jokingly, but you know when they got in their groups, it wasn't a joke. I have 40 acres of woodland, the past 2 years with the addition of a doe harvest in 3A and the decrease in 3B hunters in my area, the deer sightings have gone way down. If the deer get heavy pressure in 3A, which they do in my area, the 3B is very slow. I know of 2 groups of individuals, both large parties, 15+ people each, that are hunting 3A and no longer hunt 3B. They used to split half 3A and Half 3B. Now they don't have to. Thats just in my small area. I'm not sure whats going to work.

Also, you guys hit the nail on the head, too many sanctuarys for deer to run and stay in. I haven't seen a deer on my way to or from work since the start of shotgun season.

This year seemed bad for left deer. I know of 3 bucks being found dead. 2 were fairly nice deer. 2 were laying side by side. All three had good shot placement. Disappointing, the deer weren't tracked well at all. We found 1 nice doe dead also.

[Ron Burgundy]

My party tagged a basket 7 that was dead on its feet and My 8 had a slug hole in its back. I don't know why they didn't try to find the deer. The 7 wasn't a bad deer and my 8 was really nice. Not a head mount, but a big bodied deer with a nice rack. Just not a wall mounter. I'm just getting the rack done.