fenced in hunting

[quackattack13]

i want to know what peoples views are on fenced in hunting ranches where you go pay to shoot animals? i think its stupid!

[Rost]

I have a feeling pretty much everyone on this site will agree that it is stupid. Myself included.

[chucker34]

Ditto. Take that Gentry guy. I can't figure it out. Someone with lots of money could have paid for a guided hunt that pretty much would have guaranteed him a bear. The major arguement I've heard from the few people that supported him was that he probably doesn't have a lot of time so go easy on him. Bull. I bet he had plenty of time when not in studio or on tour and so do most of the people who go to these places. They just don't want to put in the effort.

If a guy hunts fair chase his entire life, nabs some decent bucks, and then one year gets a monster due to his years of hard hunting and scouting, well...that's, "that's something to be proud of..."

A guy walking into a high fenced ranch and plunking down $10,000 grand for that same monster he takes after a day or two. Not so special in my books. But thats just my 2 cents...

[lawdog]

Not only is it stupid, it should be outlawed plain and simple.

FAIR CHASE ONLY!!!!!!!

[bigbuck]

i totally agree with all of you guys the point of hunting is the hunt. if it was meant for fenced in animals it would strickly be called killing.

[Jeremiah Johnson]

what you guys said

[BobT]

I won't claim to support that type of activity but are we talking about truly wild deer or pen-raised animals? If they are fenced in on a ranch are they truly wild? If not then how is it really much different than taking a steer except they are willing to pay top dollar to make the kill themselves and then pay someone else to process.

What they do is not hunting and doesn't even fall under the laws of hunting.

Edit: I have heard first-hand stories on a similar note regarding some of the more prominent pheasant ranches in SD. The stories are that they truck in farm raised pheasants to be released on their ranches and then advertise the hunt as natural. True or not it's hard to believe this doesn't happen not only in SD but just about anywhere. Would that be much different if it is true?

Bob

[JDM]

Anything that is not fair chase is not hunting, it is shooting. I would never do it for big game, but sometimes I do go to a pheasant farm, usually for dog training or as an outing with my customers. Yes, it can be fun, but it is nowhere near the satisfaction I get from actually "hunting" wild birds. I know it is not really hunting, nor do I pretend it is.

I also have a problem with the guys who shoot game out the patio door over / under their bird feeders or who bait in the woods. It really isn't a challenge. It is only target practice.

[96trigger]

I don't agree with it, but sometimes these ranches can be 100's even thousands of acres. If they are not paddocked off, whats the difference? However, I don't like to see people go out there and shoot on a game farm that has feeders and all the deer marked. You might as well go out there and pick your deer out of a book, I totally don't agree with that.

[HutchBucks]

There is no difference between harvesting pen-raised deer or pen-raised pheasants or pen-raised ducks or pen-raised cattle or pen-raised hogs...none of these animals are "wild"! If you don't like it, don't spend your money there. Otherwise, leave the game farm operators alone...they have a right to earn a living, too.

[Sutty]

I don't like Deer Pay n Slays. I think they are a big risk of spreading CWD or TB. Any time an animal is found with a disease than there is a risk of spreading to the wild heard and we have to kill a bunch of animals around the farm to see if it has spread.

The argument that everyone has a right to earn a living at something doesn't hold much water to me. First off they could do something else, and if they are going to pick something to make money off of that the public doesn't like than they are setting themselves up for public criticism.

[Gforce]

yea nate i think it is not good either and thanks for askin this question so i can get ideas for my report

[quackattack13]

I agree about gettin another job and im thinkin that hutch guy is a fenced in hunter cuz he got a lil irritated with the topic! LOL~!

[Gforce]

This is for Hutchbucks are u a fenced in hunting farm operater or owner just wondering cause of your reply and the nickname for the kind of hunting is canned hunts

[BLACKJACK]

Hutchbucks, the problems is that high fence hunting

a) reflects poorly on all hunters

disease's like CWD are spread from game farm animals to the wild populatons, most cases where CWD has been found, it was tracked back to game farm animals. If it was up to me, game farms would be outlawed or be required to have double fences to reduce the risk of escapees or nose-to-nose contact. Lets not risk contaminating the wild deer in MN!!!!!

[Borch]

High fence hunting... Do I like it? No...

Is it the one thing that will give sportsmen a balck eye? I'm not so sure.

A lot has to due with the operation of the high fence ranch. Most are good well run operations that manage the animals on their property far better than any of us dreamed we could on our own hunting land. In most cases these are "Big" chunks of land. Not a few hundred acres. The fences are there to protect the fruits of their labor.

A couple of areas seem to be at the heart of the no high fence arguements.

1. Fair Chase:

How big would a high fence property need to be before it could be considered "fair chase"? Is 500 acres enough? Is 5,000 acres enough? Is 50,000 acreas enough? Maybe it's never fair chase even if it 200,000 acres. In the larger ranches I doubt many of the animals would even know there's a fence.

In bad situations with the flash hunts it's usually a small, poorly managed place. Definitely not fair chase, unethical and in some cases bordering on illegal.

2. Pay to hunt:

These are big dollar operations. Prices start at $5,000 plus and go up fast from there. Many of the operations have a pay by the inch system as well. Get all excited and shoot a buck of a life time and then experience sticker shock!

However, it appears that the pay to hunt aspect of hunting is not going away. I run into more and more land owners that are asking for a lease when I approach them for permission(ducks, pheasants, turkeys, deer). Even if you go out and get your own land to hunt on it's still a pay to hunt. Although not as directly.

3. Access to good hunting land.

As more and more land goes to pay to hunt. The less is availble for those with less financial resources. That results on many ending up hunting public land. Public land is great and it's a great resource. However, you don't get tot pick who you hunt with. You never know who you'll bump into or even where you'll hunt.

4. Spread of disease:

There is some creadance to this. However, it's not fair to equate high fence operations with the spread of disease. Most the CWD and Tuberculosis have been found with small breaders high fence operations. Not those intended for hunting. It has more to do with animal densities and common feeding areas. There have been isolated incidents of CWD and tuberculosis out west and throughout the nation in the wild.

I guess I'm saying that I don't care for high fence hunts. However, I wonder why others are so strongly against it. It's easy to pull the fair chase card. But with ranches the size of many of the counties we hunting in is it really a fair statement for all ranches. I guess for me it's the smaller places and the fact that the cost is so high for me. Not the mention that thing last year where a ranch owner was selling hunt accessed through a computer. Where a person(notice I didn't say hunter) could watch animals on a web cam and shoot the animal from home. That's not what we're talking about here. But you see how they all get a bad name from the exploits of a few.

[HutchBucks]

This is for quackattack13, gforce, blackjack and anyone else that's wondering...nope, I'm not a "fenced in hunting farm operater or owner", even though I have the option of having a partnership in one. Nor have I ever participated in a so-called "canned hunt"...this includes pheasants, quail, or whatever!

I say to each their own.

Also, if you have ever participated in a "hunt" on a game farm for pheasants you are no better than someone who chooses to shoot/harvest a deer from one of these establishments. After all, these pheasants are pen raised(like chickens)and let loose just so someone can have an easy shoot. BTW--most of these areas are fenced in too ! Hmmm...almost "fair chase". I guess they could always fly over the fence. Oops..can't have that, they might have the bird flu and spread it to the wild pheasants out there. Maybe the owners of these operations should have chicken wire around and over their hunting grounds so this doesn't happen.

As for spreading CWD...it can happen at any backyard deer feeder. That's why "recreational" feeding of deer should be illegal. What about the outbreak of TB in those cattle up north? I'd be more concerned about the deer contracting that since it's more easily spread to humans than CWD is.

Borch has brought up some great points in his post, too.

...Just a little bit for you people to think about...

Picture this guys/gals...if you shut down the deer farms it won't be long before ALL "game farms" will have to be shut down. Where would we be then? We'd have overcrowding on public land and inaccessable private land because it would most likely all be leased/bought by the big $$$ guys that can afford to spend their money at these game farms. NOT a pretty picture in my head!

This is not meant as a personal attack on anyone or their beliefs.

This is my personal opinion and anyone else is welcome to join in and voice theirs.

[BLACKJACK]

Good thoughtful post Borch!

[BLACKJACK]

Quote:

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Picture this guys/gals...if you shut down the deer farms it won't be long before ALL "game farms" will have to be shut down.

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That would be fine by me, I've never been to a game farm and never will!!! For one thing, I'm too cheap, I can't see spending +$10 per bird!!! And if I need some 'hunting' to train my pup, I'll get my some pigeons.

I think there is big difference in public perception between shooting pheasants on a preserve and shooting deer on preserve, "my Gosh, you're putting Bambi in a fence and shooting it"!!!! Bad public perception and hunting doesn't need that.

I tend to lump deer game farms and deer game preserves together, my concern is that they are CWD spawning grounds, the deer get transported around, CWD gets transported around, and before you know it, CWD shows up in wild deer in that area. I don't think its worth the risk and deer farming should be banned. But that just my humble opinion.

[quackattack13]

Well said BLACKJACK! Well said!

[icehole10]

Just my opinion here, but the way I see it is that if someone wants to spend there money on this type of hunting then go for it. Just don't brag to me about how great the hunt was cause I would not listen. Hutchbucks brings up a great point about backyard feeders. I've noticed in the past that a lot of trail camera pictures on this site in the backgroud you can see the feeders. Now I'm no biologist but have read a few articles about cwd being tranfered though saliva and I guess that would make you just a guilty as the game farms. I'm not trying to start anything that is just my opinion!

[slimngrizzly]

Just a point to make- the reason boiligists are so shook up about CWD is that NO ONE KNOWS how its spread. Once they figure that out maybe we will all find ourselves guilty.

And I think if a guy can make a better living farming elk or deer in the cattle yard, and people are going to pay mad cash for an experience like that, WELL - more power to ya! Thats just a good business decision.

But to the guy that pays the bill and pulls the trigger- GET A LIFE- and dont get all fired up or mad when we treat your big buck like a pet cow!

[gorrilla]

I think its sad when hunters don't get fired up about this fenced slaughter being equated to hunting.

The poor guy just doing blue collar work to try and make it by through promoting penned hunts song is getting old too. I was born and raised blue collar in farm country and would never consider berating the beauty of the sport/art of big game hunting to this level.

[sachem longrifle]

I do not disagree with fenced hunting as long as it follows these guidelines:

1) Deer are raised and checked free of disease and highly regulated.

2) Fences are high enough to prevent escapes

3) It's not sold as hunting.

A few years back, a few of us went to a buffalo ranch to buy a side of buffalo. We picked one out, and the farm hands went and took it to a trailer and hauled it to a slaughter house. What difference would it be if instead of the hands walking it to the trailer to take it to it's great reward if we would have just shot it right there????

[gorrilla]

First of all I am a proud FAIR-CHASE hunter.

The only difference I see, which is common, and a detriment to the average sportsman is you referring to it as HUNTING.

The fair chase aspect is gone and why should we allow for anti's to have more ammunition against us. Don't lump them into the same category.

If the animals are to be treated, fed, and raised as livestock (inside a fence) them we owe it to them to slaughter them as humanely and efficiently as one, not chase and shot at from a distance.

This is not hunting and I hate when people call it that, especially ones who claim to be hunters.

If an animal is no longer wild it can no longer be hunted, only slaughtered.