Warmer weather

[JRedig]

Anybody out today and catchin anything? I was out on a couple east metro lakes, saw a few fish, threw everything in the water but had no takers! Hopefully tomorrow isn't as windy as their saying it's gonna be.

Cheers

jeff

[Musky_Madness]

I caught a nice 40" up on Lake Alexander trolling a 10" Jake

[DinkADunk]

Caught a 38" on Tonka tonday.

[Andrew Erickson]

was camping up at indy this weekend and had 2 nice skis blow up on my hawg wabbler throwin from the shore but no fish landed

[PDXFisher]

We caught a fat 36" on Waconia today. On one of my father's homemade spinners, which, unfortunately, detached from the swivel at the same time it was taken out of the fish's mouth and sunk to the bottom of the lake. Since we had never seen a Musky before, had to look at a picture once we got home before I believed it wasn't a Northern. Very green on top with barring on the sides. Biggest fish I've ever seen in a lake (we're from Oregon, after all). Hopefully we top that many times this week before we have to go back

Don't know if I want to go there, though, was very very cloudy, maybe 2' visibility.

[MJBo]

Caught two fish on tonka saturday. Two consecutive casts at 7am. Saw more later. All were on the inside weedline in less than two feet of water (except one that came up and looked at a crankbait on the deep weedline). Saw fish shallow on sunday too.

[RK]

Hiya -

Good weekend where I was - two big fish, one Saturday morning, one Sunday morning. One other smaller fish.

Fish Saturday was a 51 on a Stidham's z-180 (walk the dog topwater). Fish waked on it for about 40 feet and finally hit about 15' from the boat (just as I was starting to get worried abotu running out of room...). Fish barely made a ripple when it sucked the bait down. Sunday AM my daughter and I met a friend of mine and went out for a couple hours. Was sort of cold and windy so my daughter (she's 9) piled all my spare jackets and raingear on herself and tried to keep warm while she watched a quick strike rigged sucker. Had a big fish come up on a twitched crankbait and blast off - not 10 seconds later it smacked the sucker. My daughter and I tag-teamed reeling it in. I helped hold the rod while she reeled. It was a cool deal.

Had a little trouble Sat. AM though... Got to the access at about 10 after 6 - still dark pretty much and I was the only one there. Tied my bow line to the dock like I've done a zillion times and launched my boat - back in, boat floats off and away I go. Started to pull out, looked back, and though "hmm. Boat sure is a long ways from the dock..." Hopped out, and grabbed the line that was tied to the dock...broken . Apparently a few years of sitting on the deck in the sun takes its toll on a nylon rope. So my boat's drifting off (offshore breeze) and there's not a soul in sight. Did the only thing I could - stripped down and in I went. About had the boat on plane pulling it back to the dock. Half the reason I was hurrying so much was worried one of my friends would show up while I was running around the public access without any clothes on... Sad deal. Good news is I got the first fish about 10 minutes after I finally got on the water. Warmed me up quite a bit.

For the record, 54 degree water is no good for swimming...

Cheers,

Rob Kimm

[Mike J]

Rob,

I am glad to see I am not the only one that things like that happen too. Fortunately for me though, the day I had to go swimming for my boat it was about 90 degrees out. Thanks for the chuckle.

MJ

[cjac]

Rob, thanks for the laugh!!! It takes a big man to admit to doing that! Yeah, I'm sure 54 degrees caused a few issues!! Sounds like a pretty classic day with your daughter, very cool!

Question for you: In the fall like this, how much do you throw topwaters and what conditions ideally? I didn't see any topwaters listed on the Fall Go To Lure" post. Was out yesterday and it was fairly windy, thought it would have been a good LOW Rider situation. Went with it for a while but by this time in the day 'tonka was a regatta. Side to side "walk the dogs" or more straight retrieve prop baits? I'm just not sure when to turn to topwater......

Had a follow on Saturday that resembled an aircraft carrier........long and wide! Was on a stained water lake and couldn't see more than a foot down. So when I did see her she was close, and big! Hopefully I'll have a length on her after I catch her this fall!

[RK]

HIya Cjac -

About topwaters: I know for a long time conventional wisdom was that topwaters 'stopped working' once water temps got into the mid-60s. It's just not the case. (At least for Leech Lake strain fish. In talking about it with some friends who fish in Wisconsin, things may be different with those fish - they've had VERY limited success with topwaters in cold water.)

Personally, I stop throwing topwaters when they start bouncing off the ice. The coldest water I've caught fish on topwaters in was 39 degrees.

The range of conditions where I use topwaters gets narrower as the water gets colder though. So does the variety of types of topwaters I use.

Early on in fall (like now, for example) I'll throw topwaters pretty much any time of day. The fish I caught Saturday AM on a walk the dog topwater was before the sun was even up. Once water gets below maybe the high 40s though it gets to be more of a banker's hours deal. Best time is from 10 to maybe 3.

I've generally found too that calm water's better for topwaters as the water temps drop. During the summer I have no trouble throwing topwaters in 3 footers, but in fall, if there's much of a chop at all I go with something subsurface. The best days are calm and cloudy early on, or, later in the fall, calm and sunny midafternoons. You get a day like that about one year out of 5 - heh.

As to where to use topwaters - anywhere really. Early on if you have remaining green weeds it's a good bet, or over shallow rocks. As the water clears up I have no problem fishing topwaters over 12 feet of water though. They'll come up for them. Very late, when the water's in the low 40s, it's a shallow water deal, and usually on cisco spawning areas. Some of the best late fall topwater fishing I've had has been in areas where there were chewed up ciscoes laying all over the bottom.

My selection of topwaters gets pretty limited in fall. It's basically down to 2 or 3 baits. As much as I like spinning 'pop-pop' baits like Pacemakers or Thunderheads the rest of the year, I haven't done well with them in cold water. Though I know guys who say the do well on them late into the season, I haven't experienced much success with them. I generally stick with small, subtle prop baits like a Mouldys Topper Stopper (one of my all time favorite topwaters any time of year) or Cisco Kid Topper, or walk the dog baits like a Stidham's Z-180 or small Doc. Real late, walk the dog baits get the nod. With walk the dog baits, getting fish to follow a LONG ways is pretty common. Can slow them down and walk them in place to trigger following fish. Actually easier to do in cold water than in summer when they tend to blow up on them. A lot of times in cold water when fish hit it's really subtle. The 51 I caught Saturday barely made a ripple - took me a second to realize it had hit at all...

Bottom line, in the right conditions topwaters can work very well even late into the season. There's nothing that's appealing about a topwater in 70 dgree water that's unappealing in 40 degree water. The range of conditions gets narrower, but when the time's right, they can really be effective...

Hope that helps...

Cheers,

Rob Kimm

[JRedig]

I haven't been fishing topwaters, i thought it was too late in the year. Then i went out after reading your post RK and was throwin a top raider tonight. Well looky here!

[cjac]

RK,

All I can say is "Thank You"! I throw out a question and more or less have an article written in response in an hour! That is more than just a little help! Gotta love watching that wake follow.....and follow......and follow!

Jredig: nice fish!

[Scoot]

Yep, I gotta agree. Having RK onboard is a real asset to the site. He's a wealth of information!

[RK]

Hey JRedig -

Awesome Nice fish man. Glad you gave topwaters a shot!

Scoot, cjac - thanks for the kind words...

Cheers,

Rob Kimm

[JRedig]

Quote:

---

Hey JRedig -

Awesome

Nice fish man. Glad you gave topwaters a shot!

---

Thanks Rob, that's my first muskie ever, 44inches. I'm ruined!!! I started fishing for them about a month ago after seeing some large fish follow on leech earlier in the year. I'm now realizing you're an editor etc, great to have such a valuable resource here! I'll be out there till the ice come's in for sure after this.

Cheerio

Jeff

[PDXFisher]

So my question is, when you're not doing tops, what are you doing? I followed the fall lure suggestions and got some weighted suicks, jakes, grandmas, ernies, hawg wobblers, etc. But I have a feeling the successful people (like the guy at the ramp who said they got 5 skis on Tonka yesterday fishing dropoffs) are throwing smaller, weighted bucktails or similar on the dropoffs, and not the bucktails I'm throwing (double cowgirls). Also, what are fall colors?

I guess my question is, how do I fish the "dropoffs"? What depth should I be? Where do you cast from/to? Perpendicular to the drop or parallel? Should I be very close to the bottom? Because most of those lures I have don't go very deep. I have some of those bladed, sideways triangular baits that people use for bass that end up with Muskies, but have no confidence in them yet. I feel like I'm missing a huge part of the strategy for going after these beasts, which is, essentially, anything below surface.

Any advice, anyone?

Thanks!

[RK]

Hiya -

For fishing breaklines in the fall - or really practically anywhere in fall shallow or deep - it's pretty hard to beat a single spin spinnerbait. You can fish them at such a variety of depths and speeds that they're incredibly versatile. I fish them anywhere from just below the surface to slow rolling them 15 feet down at times. Twitched Jakes or Grandmas, suicks, or cranks fished like jerkbaits are good too. (I rediscovered the Bagley DB-06 this fall. Used to be a go-to bait for me years ago but I somehow got away from it. Been using it again this fall and had forgotten what a good deep diving twitch bait they are...caught a fish on one Saturday and I bet that was the first muskie I'd caught on a Bagley in 10 years...now kicking myself for having ignored them so long...)

To fish breaklines I generally stay off them and cast from deep water up shallow. I'll keep the boat close enough to the edge so I can cast a ways up onto the flat and bring it out over the edge. ALWAYS make a cast or two out in front of the boat parallel to the break but just off it as well.

As far as how deep to run lures - for me where I start sort of depends on conditions. If it's overcast I run baits higher, but with high skies I like to get down deeper somewhat. That's just a rule of thumb as a place to start. You sort of adjust as you experiment and see what fish are doing. Same goes with how far off the break to keep your boat. If you get fish coming up from straight below (not uncommon in fall, and a great way to get the bejeebers scared out of you) you may need to back off and stay farther from the break, or go down the break fancasting parallel to it.

Fall can be a tough time to develop confidence in things because the feeding windows can be so short. Just have to stick to your guns and keep at it...

cheers,

Rob Kimm

[PDXFisher]

Thanks so much, Rob, you made us feel more confident fishing today, even if we didn't get lucky. Of course, I only read what you wrote about two ours before we got off the water from my BlackBerry

So we went straight to the spinnerbaits (I have quite a few with two blades, however..cut one off?).

Here is our process, If there are obvious flaws, please, anybody, point them out:

1. Head towards what Dennis Lappen or Wayne Klemz considers a hotspot in the the Sportsman's Connection Musky book. If an official "hotspot" isn't close, I try to find a spot where it goes from 5' to 30' fairly quickly

2. Try to find the 20'-15' contour line on map or my tiny GPS with Lakemaster Minnesota.

3. Put the engine in neutral after trying to position the boat so the wind will push us along the breakline (should the engine be off? how much does that spook them?). 14' boat, 25hp motor.

4. I was pretty much starting with mostly green, smaller bucktails (what I would refer to as a spinner in Oregon), like Mepps Giant Killers, Musky Marabou, Blue Fox Super Vibrax 6, Bionic Bucktail. Colors are green, yellow, black. I went on a green buying spree a couple of days ago, so it's probably over-represented. Since reading your response, I start with medium-sized single or two-bladed spinner baits (I assume these are the sideways triangular things with the upside-down body and hook on the bottom and blades on the top, with the rubbery skirt ) or bigger ones like like CJ's Large. I cast far, start with a hard twitch to get the blade spinning (leftover habit from the double cowgirls) and pull, reel, pull, reel, sometimes twitch, reel. Z as it comes in. Not sure how fast to retrieve, how much to twitch, etc. If using bucktail, cast along where I think edge of weeds are and retrieve parallel to it. If spinnerbait, cast even closer to weeds and retrieve across line or parallel. If casting into the weeds, I don't wait for it to sink at all. If casting into break, I wait up to 10 secs before retrieving.

5. Once I don't catch anything on spinners/bucktails and spinnerbaits, I start reaching for the smaller Jakes and Grandmas, then 9" Grandmas (dark green/orange), 10" weighted suicks (yellow/green, green and silvery) and larger depthraiders. If the water is calm and I can cast to shore or otherwise shallow water, I'll try a topraider as a last resort (kinda my "screw you, musky" lure). I've caught a bush and a tree already, but it's just fun to cast a couple hundred feet sometimes.

Keep in mind that we're still in the same area, though the wind has drifted us. We will then put the engine in gear, make a correction to keep us in as close to 15-20 FOW (with the ability to cast to much shallower) as long as possible on the wind drift. We will often stay in the same area for close an hour or more repeating this two or three times.

Fear, uncertainty and doubt:

I have a ridiculous 100lb, 12" stiff steel wire leader connected to 80lb powerpro (since it's starting to fray in a spot after 10 days fishing, probably will buy spiderwire tomorrow). Is this overkill? Are muskies leader-shy and I'm making them swim away in fear (I am, after all, a fly fisherman who grew using mostly 2lb. maxima)?

Twitching and jerking...how exactly? Make it just do a 180 degree turn? Retrieve when you feel like it? Should I get a shorter leader for twitching?

I saw a guy go out today with nothing but medium to small bucktails/spinners. Makes me feel kinda foolish spending hundreds of dollars on all sorts of ridiculously huge and expensive monsters that have caught nothing but my fingertips thus far (is this what a diabetic who has to test themselves with those fingerprickers feels like?).

Are we spending far too much time in one spot?

I only troll because my arm is tired. Without knowing the lake, and with weeds everywhere, without knowing the lures well enough to know what depth I am actually fishing, I find it difficult.

We fished on Tonka today, Crown Point, Echo Bay, around Big Island, in front of Lafayette Club (where we spent a lot of time since my father liked the water) and Bohn's Point. In many of these places, there was tons of brown weeds (Milfoil, I assume). I remember seeing elsewhere to stay away from such things, as it is dying weeds that are using up the DO. Is that true? It's hard to convince my father that it may not be optimal. It's just disconcerting because it's not like we're fighting off the other muskie fishermen for the spots we are in. I also think others may be covering far more water than we are.

After all these days on the boat, when does the swaying stop?

When is this post going to end?

If you made it this far, congratulations. I think I wrote it as much for catharsis as I did with any expectation of feedback. We'll be on West Upper Tonka tomorrow, Priest's Bay, Hardscrabble, etc. The clock is ticking on my vacation timer. If you have a clue and want to make $100 to guide for a few hours, we have an open seat

[RK]

Hiya PDX -

Sounds like you have the right idea...

Really have to look at weedgrowth this time of year too. At least on the lakes I fish the weed die-back is really pronounced this year. Due to high heat I suppose. A lot of the cabbage is toast. Sometimes the 'break' is the weedline rather than the actual drop-off. When you have a space between the weedline and the drop-off, sometimes you'll get fish parked on that too - especially when you don't have good conditions. Great place to fish cranks or soft plastics... Or, look at the inside weedline - sometimes in 3-4 feet of water. Easy to check that out since you can fish it fast with a bucktail or high-riding spinnerbait.

Don't worry about the motor running. Have caught many many muskies on figure-8s next to a running outboard. Frankly, I think an outboard scares them less than an electric (if you ever have a fish that is just sitting there after you've unhooked it, step on the trolling motor and see what happens...)

Don't worry about the leader either. They aren't leader or line shy. The Power Pro is fine too - just cut off the bottom 2-3 feet and retie once in a while. Back in the Dacron days we retied once every couple hours, but superline's a lot tougher. The 100# 12" leader is pretty mcuh exactly what I use. In fact, I think most of my leaders are #140...

Twitching baits like Jakes or Grandmas - try different things with them. Hard twitches and long pauses, or reel-reel-reel, then twitch and pause, or twitch-twitch-twitch-pause-pause...mix it up. No wrong way to do it, and you just keep experimenting till you find something that moves a fish. Suicks? I fish my Suicks like a toothpick. Cast it out, reel steadily and slowly, with longish pulls. Boring as watching paint dry, but it works. Fish just eat the things.

For spinnerbaits I more or less just cast them out and reel them in. With spinnerbaits one of the best triggers is making contact with cover. Bang it off and through weed stalks - what my friend Dick Pearson calls 'grinding.' Cast it out, and point the reel (not necessarily the rod tip - I usually have that pointed downward toward the water - but rather the reel itself) right at the spinnerbait and reel steadily. When it hits weeds, keep reeling. Usually the spinnerbait will just bull through. If you try to rip it through or jerk, it'll foul. If you do pick up weeds, a sharp upward snap of the wrist will clear it most often. The spinnerbait banging and clanging through the weed stalks is a huge trigger.

I'd be careful of relying too much on Hotspots maps and the like. Spots like that get pounded. What I often do in the fall is start by looking for the biggest spots on the lake. Put a lake map on the wall and step back 15 feet. Amazing what jumps out at you...

Really sounds like you're on the right track. Just don't be afraid to experiment, and put your time in. The #1 thing is time on the water... Learnign curve with muskies is steep sometimes, and you just have to pay your dues...

good luck - let us know how it goes...

Cheers,

Rob Kimm

[PDXFisher]

Well, I feel better today, thanks for the encouragement!

All it took was a huge muskie blowing up my topraider in Priest's Bay around dusk. I don't think he took it all the way in, or maybe I shoulda waited half a second. It came without warning, though (no wake). It was the same topraider I caught a Northern on two days ago, which is the only action I've seen at all. So that makes it my favorite lure by default (double spin blades, red, snakeskin pattern). I had been throwing a Cisco Topper in that area (to the left of that channel to Halstead's Bay, where all the trees overhang into the water) and got snagged on an exposed tree branch. We floated over to it and I unhooked it and put on the trusty raider. First cast is when it got blown up. Oh, and the motor was running too

The rest of the day was far less exciting. You were totally right about the spinnerbaits and weeds, though. I just reeled in straight without jerking and it came up clean often enough to make me less frustrated. I got some M&Gs and cut the front blades off and threw those most of the day. One is black/red the other was Gopher colors (maroon/yellow). Got a Bagley Cisco thing, but it wasn't a 06, I think it's an 8. I looked for stidhams but couldn't find any. I guess it's all for the best since it was very windy today.

I think I figured out the jerk thing a little better, I just needed to yank quicker and harder, to get it to do a 180. Is it easier to do the twitch/jerk with single strand wire, or braided leader? I notice the leader sorta makes the lure dive a little from the weight.

When there's chop in the water, jerkbaits and twitches are a no-go, yes?

I still don't think I really have a clue how to approach a given spot if it isn't casting to shore with a topper. But that's just probably because that's the only thing I have any results with. If it's windy, I'm kinda lost if not pitching spinnerbaits.

Still trying to decide on more Gray's Bay or Waconia tomorrow...

Thanks again, Rob, you rock!

-Derek

[Woody B]

Great posts Guys, For Tonka these days we've had success burning small bucktails shallow 1-3ft near some weed or rock. Work it fast, there either there or not. If not, I found that working the deep edge has been producing 17-30fOW. You must work it very very slow. I use a manta and work it 6-10ft down. There are some very big fish out in this depth but they don't always want to bite. If you get on a good spot you can see some dandies.

[CommonSense Guy]

Tonka is turning over right now. I will not fish it for about ten days. Don't waste your time

[PDXFisher]

So if not Tonka, Independence I can't get to because the ramp is closed...then where? Isn't Waconia still turning, or is it done now? Pelican? I've got two more days of fishing beore going back to Oregon, where should I try next?

BTW, there's a few lurkers here who decided to go to the spot in Priest's Bay where I mentioned getting the strike. Made me chuckle to see three boats there tonight

However, I waited until they left and get another strike in almost the same spot on the same topraider from what I assume was the same darned fish. Those are the only two strikes I have seen. If you can't be skillful, find one dumb fish and work him until you hook him good, I guess

So if you see brown weeds, go somewhere else, is that the rule?

[big musk411]

PDX fisher, you might want to head north. The water temps may be reaching the magic 50 degree mark . I'm going to Duluth to attempt Greatlakes Muskie.

Good Luck!

[mtreno]

i was wondering if thats where your planner board questions were leading to. good luck up there! thats always been something i have wanted to try.