A Lucky Mudeye At Belle Plaine

[DARK30]

Well the catfish contest at Belle Plaine has come and gone for another year. Again I was angered at the sight of dead flatheads in the bathtub. Last year it seamed things had come around for the better a little bit but this year it was back to same ol thing....Very Little Conservative Dexterity. I could go on and on....Ok, I will.

I know a couple of the guys who put this thing on and they are good people. They just don't care about getting on the "Better Management Of Flathead Catfish" wagon. I think the contest should only allow channels and carp as entries in their little fest. The beer and beans could still be served. They could still throw kegs and spit tobacco...but leave my mudeyes out of it. The holding tank is clearly not doing the job it needs to do and we still have the problem of people not having the tools to transport the fish. This year the bridge and boat ramp in Belle Plaine were both closed due to construction. The only other places to release the fish were either Jordan or LeSueur.

So how should a contest be run? My personal view would be no contests involving flatheads. It could be done however in a way that doesn't come close to the current mortality numbers. Just ask the guys in the Belle Plaine Catfish League how many dead fish they have seen since the club was started. The league has a drawing which pairs you up with one of your competitors. You fish a set time and all fish are measured and accompanied by a photo. This happens over a period of a few weekends but could easily be put into place for one contest. The people who want to pick up a piece of sandbar could do that and the people who want use boats can do that. The fish are released minutes after they are caught and the evidence proving the are true catmen is turned in the next day. There is no way to totally stop cheaters but offering huge amounts of money will always lure them in and should not be the reason to fish.

Good management the Minnesota River population of flathead catfish is fast becoming a priority with a whole lot of good river rats. We are years ahead of our "brothers" to the south and the 24" rule is a good start but we need to take that further still. I would like to see a total catch and release only rule but would settle for a very strict length limit system like no fish over 24" . The people fishing contests would still survive...unless somebody tripped over a beer can and fell in the river and drowned. In the case of a possible state record fish being caught....well (IF) you feel you have a mudeye over 70# (and that won't happen without proper management) and (IF) you can find a certified scale at 2am along with a CO who can confirm it, There could be some sort of "one fish over 60" rule I suppose. I would say proper measurements, photos and witnesses would hold up in my court. I'll bet a fish caught over 70# would just turn into a big fiasco anyway and would probably result in name calling and a big dead fish.

My hat goes off to Roger from LeSueur who won the contest with a 51# 10oz beauty caught Friday night around 8:30 using a large sucker. He was concerned about the well being of his fish and I accompanied him to LeSueur to tape the release. Funny cause he rarely fishes flatheads being into the bass tournament scene so heavy. He told me however that he does like fishing the river for walleyes. So again I'd like to say congratulations to Roger...Good Job!

By The Way.... I spent Friday afternoon/evening with a friend BASS fishing! All I could catch were the bait size ones but Ben did get a couple piggies (See Bass Forum)

[DARK30]

Meanwhile at the Bobber Shop contest in Mankato,... My friend Kyle and his little bro "Kip" placed 5th. This one is run a lot better. All fish are weighed at the river and immediately released. No dead fish were brought in although the risk during hot weather will always be there. Maybe they would consider having the contest in June when the flatheads are really on the bite and the water temp is much cooler.

Good Job Guys!

[hanson]

Kevin-

Good job on the videos dude!

Those guys should just be glad I wasn't there to see that dead 44lb. I'm about ready to throw something across the room just watching the video on the computer.

I've got an e-mail I'll be sending your way.

[rushing]

Nice videos Kevin! Man that first one was sad, seeing the big dead guy and the other little guy floppin around on concrete. John George took third in Kato. He is the guy with the first flat on the Big Cat Safari thread.

[DARK30]

It has been brought to my attention this morning that there would be interest in forming a "Pheasants Forever" type of group to promote management guidelines and further interest in our Flathead Catfish resources. I would assume this would mainly involve the Minnesota River. I feel strongly that catfishing in Minnesota is and could be much better if such a group were to come about.

I would be all for getting organized. I've been trying to convince flathead anglers to release these fish for a long time now. I had the wind knocked out of my sails some years ago when an avid flathead fisherman who also works with the DNR fisheries told me it would be a very uphill battle and he himself thought there was no harm being done as the population samples were very high in the Minnesota River. Maybe he could change his mind but if we can't get guys like that on our side, It would be very difficult to go forward.

I'm not a real political kind of guy and hate haggling with people on any issue but I may be of some help. I do plan on meeting with a couple of the organizers of the Belle Plaine contest and plead for changes. They mean well but just need to be better informed on how important these flatheads are to a lot of other people. The contest has been running many years and making demands and enemies is not what I would like to do. I believe this contest could make a turnaround and be much more fish friendly if they truly want it to be. The way it is now, its not as much about catfishing rather it as about the "party" that goes along with it.

[rushing]

I think its about time for a "Flatheads Forever" type group to help promote the protection of our great fishery!

[MachineHead]

This is all great and what not, but has anyone any real data backing up the claim that fish are disappearing? Like electroshocking surveys or something on that order?

To be honest, MN DNR will probably listen, but will not make any moves without something more substantial than a video or two from a couple of small contests. And if they have to do the surveys, etc., you can bet it will take more than few years to get some results that they can use to base far reaching, and maybe, quite impacting laws / rule changes into place. Still, I suppose it has to start somewhere and will watch this with some interest over the next few months to see how you fare.

[rushing]

Do they have to start disappearing before action is taken? With the recent growth in popularity of flathead fishing nothing but good could come out of a organization that promotes maintaining a healthy flathead fishery.

[Fish'n guy]

I think that an organization such as "Flatheads Forever" would be a very good conservation tool in keeping these fish around. Not that they are getting fewer and fewer, but something could definately be done to better run these contests efficiantly. Such as have a 24hr weight in.

They could have a certain amount of boats on a given stretch of river as referies to wiegh measure and photogragh the fish at the location the fish was caught. This would be along the lines of a musky tournement, and I could gaurentee the chances for a flatheads survival would be much higher.

I would be interested in joining or helping to organize a group like this.

Kevin, Nice video. Kind of sad to see those Flatheads treated like that. It really puts things into perspective for a guy.

[MachineHead]

No they don't. But you can't be making declarations that a few fish killed from a small tourney has nearly wiped out the large cat population in the Minnesota river, either.

See, that is why there has to be studies of some sort done. Though a large, well organized group might stand a better chance to be recognized if they have some proof, outlines, and a real well thought out and stuctured plan.

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see the big cats saved as much as the next guy, but if you're going to do something like this you need credibility to back up your claims and what you intend to accomplish. And quite frankly, getting [PoorWordUsage]ed that the fish that were lost is something that the DNR may note, but will check to see if they were in accordance with current guidelines. Given some sort of formal grievance was filed to them. And if the tournament was within them, well then, it's a matter of you not liking what happened and them running it based on what is allowed right now. Basically, their hands are tied.

People cannot make these kinds of statements and expect results without proof. Think about aspects of other laws and you'll immediately see why. Heresay just doesn't work.

My point to all this is - don't get [PoorWordUsage]ed off, get the facts and present them in a way that does the best to accomplish a means to an end. In general, I think you'll find that the vast majority of fishermen/women couldn't care less about a forum and their thoughts on matters like this. They're too busy fishing and filling their livewells. That said, a well informed tack on this could be fruitful if you leave out the finger pointing and bellering about what you think is wrong with the whole system. Give them some proof.

And one other thing occured to me, getting actual assistance from the DNR right now might be like trying to knock out a shadow boxer. In regards to funding for studies that is. The MN DNR is usually on a tight budget as it is and usually prioritize based on "what the people want". Perhaps a petition would also bring your efforts to their attention with more gusto if enough were to sign it. In fact, web based petitions are now accepted iirc. Something to think about.

[hanson]

Is the handling of large, trophy flatheads in the manner shown in the videos good for the fish? If not, why do we have contests that promote and require this type of handling to occur?

I can't think of any other kind of fishing tournament or contest in Minnesota that puts a "bounty" on trophy fish like these contests do. Walleye tournaments, Bass tournaments, Musky tournaments may not be perfect either but there are definitely more preventative measures in place to insure successful release of these fish. These contests are almost a joke and a slap in the face to the C&R / selective harvest ethics so many anglers practice these days.

Will an organized group of anglers have any effect on the laws & regulations for flathead fishing in the state of MN? Hard to say. But I think we've done enough b*tching and moaning on the internet here without accomplishing anything. Thats all we're doing is complaining and no one is listening. I don't expect the DNR to be watching every conversation we have here and form policy based on our talk. Its time to take the next step if we're really concerned. We may not accomplish anything but it is the right way to let the DNR know about our concerns.

[fiskyknut]

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I can't think of any other kind of fishing tournament or contest in Minnesota that puts a "bounty" on trophy fish like these contests do.

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Cats incredible on the Red River in EGF comes to mind.

I think it's high time the DNR looks at a closed season thru the spawning time frame too. I cringe when I read year after year of fish being pulled mid/late June and early July up here and dumping their eggs all over the boat. These fish then go on to successfully spawn? Ya right.

I think I can grasp why SOME 'for profit' users of the resource figure these things are no problem at all though.

fiskyknut

[harvey lee]

Hanson is very correct on this issue.Everyone can get on the internet and complain and I can promise you nothing will change.One can say its not that bad now but if some fisherman dont try and do something now then things could change.The DNR will always listen to what you have to say and with enough evidence and work they then are willing to look at the issue.Yes,it does take them some time but you have to start sometime or nothing will ever get done.

I have been involved with many wildlife groups including starting new chapters.Nothing will ever get done unless the talking about doing something stops and a few get organized and do somrthing.It does work in time.

[MachineHead]

Maybe instead of Flatheads Forever, it should be Catfish Forever. Why single out just one species? Especially after reading fishyknut's post.

[hanson]

Machinehead-

I like your earlier post! Kind of a reality check to the emotion that is flowing here.

I think the gameplan is to go about this the "right way", which may take some time to figure out. The pot has been stirred and emotions are boiling over. Now its time to take a step back, a deep breath, and think about this with a clear head.

[rushing]

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No they don't. But you can't be making declarations that a few fish killed from a small tourney has nearly wiped out the large cat population in the Minnesota river, either.

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Not quite sure what thread you're reading but I didn’t see any such thing said.

There has been a sharp increase in fishing pressure including quite a few out of state people coming to fish the Minnesota River. Out of state people coming to Minnesota to catfish? Its a testament to how good of a fishery we have on the Minnesota river and to help keep it that way some concerned fishermen want to try to do something no matter how small to try to keep it that way. Even if it’s organizing river clean ups or just wearing a hat promoting the catch and release of flatheads. Having such a group as a "Flatheads Forever" can do nothing but good for the river and the fish.

[rushing]

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Maybe instead of Flatheads Forever, it should be Catfish Forever. Why single out just one species? Especially after reading fishyknut's post.

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Well since this might be a Minnesota River specific thing and the Minnesota River doesn’t have a trophy channel cat fishery like the Red River does. Lumping channel cats in with flatheads is almost like comparing large mouth bass to bluegill, both are sun fish but shouldn’t be managed the same way.

On the Red River there aren’t any flatheads and they have an incredible trophy channel cat fishery and should be managed accordingly. I do believe they do have a couple of groups up there that advocate for them already.

[DTro]

Count me in on anything to help out.

On another note, did anyone else catch that guy saying he caught his on a small sufish

[DARK30]

Our problems concerning the Minnesota River are far more reaching than a few dead flatheads at a contest that's for sure. We got ag runoff that is unbelievable. We got non point pollutants around every bend. We got heavy siltation after just about every rain. The reason I get upset at the sight of a 44# dead flathead at a contest is someone is not caring who very easily could care. I know there are more 40 and 50 plus fish swimming out there but its just the idea that there's another one that won't grow to 50, 60, or record. because of preventable ignorance.

I think it was just in the last few years that the first flathead over 50 came into the BP contest. There's been a lot of big cats caught this year by other people too so it looks as though the fish are in excellent shape and getting better. Word is getting out now more than ever that the Minnesota is a trophy flathead destination so now would be a great time to get some strict flathead specific regs put in place on the Minnesota. We're in it for the photos boys...first one over 70# wins!

As far as forming a conservation group that is effective, can a bunch of river rats be taken seriously? How did the C&R regs get put on the smallmouth streams and all those trout streams down southeast? Was it the DNR or special interest groups? I've fished the trout streams down there for over twenty five years and have not seen a decline in fish numbers...are they trying to raise big fish? If they are, its the same deal here. There's no threat to the population of Flatheads...we just want more big ones faster.

On a side note....After reading through the "You just might be a catfisherman" thred, if we do get a group off the ground...I doubt my Wife would allow any meetings at my place

[Big Dave2]

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Maybe instead of Flatheads Forever, it should be Catfish Forever. Why single out just one species? Especially after reading fishyknut's post.

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Well since this might be a Minnesota River specific thing and the Minnesota River doesn’t have a trophy channel cat fishery like the Red River does. Lumping channel cats in with flatheads is almost like comparing large mouth bass to bluegill, both are sun fish but shouldn’t be managed the same way.

On the Red River there aren’t any flatheads and they have an incredible trophy channel cat fishery and should be managed accordingly. I do believe they do have a couple of groups up there that advocate for them already.

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In my opinion, for the best chance of being taken seriously as an organization that is concerned with conservation in just the Minnesota river, you may want to include all species as sort of a Minnesota River conservation club. Otherwise it looks like you are just concerned about your favorite speciese in your favorite body of water.

First of all everyone should just take a moment to take a deep breath and decide what it is you are looking to change. Do you want to eliminate all tournaments? I doubt it and even if you were you would probably be in for a very hard battle.

Do you want to change tournament rules? If so, then your best method may be to get together as an informal group of concerned citizens and try to come up with some recomondations for the organizers of these tourneys to look at. This would be the gentlemanly thing to do. If anyone goes off half-cocked at these guys who put this thing on all you will do is create hard fealings and probably spell the end of the BP catfishing contest. I know some of the guys who put this on and they just do it for the fun and there is a good deal of work into setting this up.

Don't get me wrong I am not an advocate of fishing contests and do not participate in them. I havn't fished this contest in 20 years, back when I was 16. But I do feel that it is a Belle Plaine tradition. We have had many things change in this town in the last 10 years, not all for the better. Lets not get rid of everything just because it bothers a few. I do agree that something needs to change but lets sit down and discuss it civily and hopefully everyone can come to a mutual agreement that satisfies all parties.

[DARK30]

I think "micro managing" or special regs for specific waters is fast becoming the accepted method statewide. I think all the game fish in the state have special regs for one body of water or another but not catfish..why? The only other species in the Sota besides flatheads that would get my vote for extra protection would be the walleyes. I saw a guy with a "ten" pound walleye in a bucket last fall. He said he wanted to mount it. I said do you want to weigh it? It was (almost) eight pounds...Still a nice mount I guess.

Bottom line is... Yes, I and many others would like to see flatheads get special treatment on the Minnesota River. Will we do it by outlawing contests? No. Can we do it by improving the contests? Yes. Can we do it by putting strict length limits in place? Yes. could we have more fun with two lines? YES!! Oh, that's another thing

[DTro]

While I think the rules/regs could be tweaked a bit, one thing that could be done immediately is exactly what you did Dark. Go to these tourneys and monitor them. If nobody is taking care of these fish, step in and help out.

If a group was formed, that group could monitor these tournies, make recommendations, donate time or supplies needed to protect the fish. There are simple things that could be done right now.

[AQUAJOE]

FMFCC

Fishing Minnesota for Catfish Conservation

FMCA

Fishing Minnesota Catfish Alliance

Just some thoughts

[rushing]

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Otherwise it looks like you are just concerned about

your

favorite speciese in

your

favorite body of water.

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Not quite sure what’s so wrong about that?

Most every other game fish in the state has some sort of club or group associated with it but not flatheads.

These debates are great! They are the sparks that can ignite some action!

[Flaco651]

I thought about making the drive to Belle Plaine to fish the contest but after hereing how it was ran I declined. It's bad enough knowing some of these big fish died there, but if I was the one responsible for having a trophy sized Flat die, it would probably dwell on my conscience for quite a while. I would think, that could have been a future record...or that was a big spawner..or that could have been someone else's personal best...and so on. Hopefully we can get some changes made to that contest. I am all for the idea of an organization like Flatheads Forever, or even Catfish Forever. Keep me informed if there is any type of organization starting up, or if I could be any help in starting one.