Kids ATV's

[fishinphilth]

I am looking to get my 4 and 5 year olds a 4 wheeler, I am having a hard time selecting one on the fact that it is hard to pay a lot for something that wont be around for long. I have seen these off brands and was wondering if anyone has one or has any info on them.

[jigstick44]

I bought a Kazuma last year for my kids and I couldn't be happier. It was ALOT cheaper than a major brand name and it actually has more to offer than they do.

[Dave]

Although not advised by regulations, by the time my boys were 6/7, they were ready for a 90cc already. So, I would buy a 90cc and turn the throttle limiter down.

[SomethingFishy*]

My Brother (12) and Sister (9) each have there own wheelers my dad bought them each Honda 90cc. My little sister is the wild one so dad turned the throttle way down on hers (she wasn't happy with him). Buy them a 90 now and they can ride it for quite a few years. I also see that Polaris makes a Sportsman 90cc

[mattkimk]

Yeah I am thinking the same thing. I saw some on hsolist and I am thinking about getting a couple this year for the kids.The prices are half of what they are everywhere else I have seen them

[SomethingFishy*]

Gander sells an off branded youth machine also. Consider brand name for resale purposes also.

[SUICK]

Look into the Koplin atv's they have a 50 and a 90 very well built my daughter races her's they sell them at gander but if you get over to the blaine area off of hwy 69 there is QUAD central very nice store and they specialize in kid atv's ask for John awesome service

[Dave]

I'm sure the Kolpin ATVs are manufactured by ETON. My son has a ETON Viper 90 and it has held up very well. The Polaris youth ATVs are also manufactured by ETON. So, that shows you where some of the youth ATVs are built.

[castmaster]

one other thing to note, some dealerships really cover their butts when it comes to the age deal. when pricing 90's for my daughter i actually had a couple dealerships that refused to do business with me when they saw it was for a child under 12, and had others who wouldnt discuss prices etc until i came back without my daughter.

in todays world of sue happy people i guess i undertand it but it can be a pain!!

[Phred52]

I ran into the same problem at the dealership I did business with. Under 10, no larger than a 50cc, 10 to 16 a 90cc and 16 and older anything goes. There is a course a 12 year old (or older) can take, and upon successful completion of the course, they can drive adult size machines. I do agree castmaster, They are covering their butts. Had you gone in alone the 1st time, you could easily have bought a adult size machine and taken it home, only to find out (by citation) that your daughter couldn't drive it. Even a 50 or 90cc, the legal driving possibilities are at best "VERY" limited. Basically "Private land" is the only legal option. EVEN on a frozen lake they're restricted! fishinphilth, can you contact me at fredndeb(at)newulmtel(dot)net?

[mattkimk]

Really? So a 10 year old cannot ride a 50 on the lakes in winter?

[SUICK]

check the rules but i'm pretty sure kids can ride up to a 90 on lakes and trails as long as their registered and with an adult

[castmaster]

heres what i got off the DNR web site (although i semm to remember something about changes to these laws that would allow kids under 12 to operate on public lands, so its possible the site hasnt been updated. it still says you cant have passengers on an atv, but thats not the case anymore so...maybe someone else has infor on the current age requiremnts)

* Under 12 -

o May operate only on private property with permission of the owner.

* 12 through 15 -

o ATV safety certificate valid only if the rider is able to properly reach and control the handle bars and reach the foot pegs while sitting upright on the seat of the ATV.

o ATV safety certificate is valid for ATVs 90cc or less, unless the person has completed the new riding component test on an ATV over 90ccs.

o May operate an ATV on public lands or frozen public waters with a safety certificate, only if accompanied on another ATV by a person 18 or over who has a valid driver's license.

o May make a direct crossing of roadway with a safety certificate, only if accompanied on another ATV by a person 18 or over who has a valid driver's license.

o Must wear a helmet while operating on public lands and frozen waters when crossing road rights-of-way.

* 16 and 17 -

o May operate an ATV on public lands and frozen public waters without a safety certificate.

o Must have a driver's license to make direct crossing of roadway or operate on road rights-of-way.

o Must wear a helmet while operating on public lands, frozen public waters and on road rights-of-way.

now, 2 wheel dirt bikes are a whole different issue. no corse is required for a child under 12 to ride those on public lands. doesnt make much sense to me!

[rundrave]

my family has run into this same problem, not with purchasing but riding at parks around the country. I think we need to write some people and express our opinions.

How is it possible that a child can ride a motorcycle, but cant ride an ATV?

I am not saying they cant ride either one, I am saying if you can ride a motorcycle you should be able to ride an atv.

I am all for safety etc... but it just doesnt make sense to me.

[Dave]

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There is a course a 12 year old (or older) can take, and upon successful completion of the course, they can drive adult size machines.

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The can only drive the size machine that they took the riding part of the ATV safety test, I believe. If they took the riding test on a 300cc, that's the largest they can ride.

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Even a 50 or 90cc, the legal driving possibilities are at best "VERY" limited. Basically "Private land" is the only legal option. EVEN on a frozen lake they're restricted!

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Now, youth 10 and older can ride public lands and waters. The changed the law to allow 10 and 11 year olds to ride their own machines as long as a parent is riding alongside them, behind them. This gives the 10/11 year old a couple of years "training" for the ATV test at 12 years old.

I think the theory is riding a motorcycle doesn't have the balance issues, like that of an ATV. A dirt bike is more less a powered bicycle. And, there's very few dirt bikes out there compared to ATVs.

[castmaster]

Dave,

thanks for the post, i thought i remembered something aboutthat law changing and figured the DNR site just hasnt been updated.

as for the law i'm sure its nice for family's with children under 12(i know it would have been very much appreciated by my daughter while she was waiting to turn 12!) but i still think its a bad change and makes absolutely NO SENSE to me. the way things are a 10 year old can ride an atv in places a 12 yr old cant unless that 12 yr old has taken the safety course.

it would be like saying a 14 yr old can drive a car on the raodways without any sort of esting as long as a parent is with, then when they turn 16 they must test to drive on the roads with a parent with them. how does that make any sense?

[Dave S]

Kids 12 and older may ride an ATV over 90cc as long as they successfully complete the MN DNR ATV Homestudy CD-ROM, take the classroom and riding components of the safety training. They must also meet the specified "8 Fit Requirements" for any ATV they ride.

They may fit a Yamaha Grizzly 125, Suzuki Ozark, Honda Recon etc, but they may not fit a Polaris Sportsman 450, thus they cannot legally ride the Polaris.

If there are any other questions regarding the legality of riding any size machine in MN and age requirements, feel free to ask or check the MN DNR ATV Safety Regualtions Booklet.

Dave Sunderman

MN DNR ATV Safety Instructor.

[castmaster]

Lep,

i was wondering how closely you watch the "fit" part of things when conducting your safety courses?

i was very surprised when i took my daughter to her safety course last summer. i was expecting something fairly serious somewhat along the lines of a drivers test. i was worried since she was very close on the "fit" requirements for her 90. but when we got there, she was the ONLY kid on a youth size machine, and the instructors encouraged me to have her test on a borrowed sportsman 500 which was way too big for her, just so she'd be endorsed for the larger machine. the also said first thing "no one will fail today unless you are involved in an accident with an instructor". some of the people hadnt bothered to do the cd rom tests and they were allowed to test and told to abide by the honor sytem and do the cd when they got home. the written test at the end was done as a group.

overall i was very very surprised at how lightly the whole thing was taken.

are they all like that?

[Dave]

CM, my son recently took the firearm safety class as well and that was the same. None of these classes are going to make youth accident-free, in any recreation. If they made it too tough, many adults couldn't ride or hunt

[castmaster]

Dave,

i understand that, but why have "fit requirements" at all if they are going to be ignored? why test these kids if they are going to be done as a group where no one gets any wrong? why encourage youths to test on machines that are far too big and beyond their capabilities? why send out cd-roms and say its required to do the pre tests with your child, print them out and bring them along with the certificate of completion if its going to be overlooked for those who dont bother?

seems to me if thats the way all the courses are run, there really isnt a need for them!

as for firearms saftey alot must have changed since i went thorugh it. when i did tests were taken on an individual basis, not as a group. you didnt receive a pasing score YOU DIDNT PASS! when it came to the actual field day, no comments were made of "everyone will pass unless you shoot an instructor". several kids in my class failed because they didnt follow gun safety rules.

thats a far cry fgrom what i experienced with my daughter at the atv safety course.

[Dave]

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Dave,

i understand that, but why have "fit requirements" at all if they are going to be ignored?

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Valid point. I will write ATVAM to try and get an answer to that question.

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why test these kids if they are going to be done as a group where no one gets any wrong?

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I'm thinking the testing was alonmg the lines of firearm saftey. The testing was done individually but they were sitting in a group Maybe that can be clarified what "group" meant.

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why encourage youths to test on machines that are far too big and beyond their capabilities? why send out cd-roms and say its required to do the pre tests with your child, print them out and bring them along with the certificate of completion if its going to be overlooked for those who dont bother?

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Again, valid points that I will ask about. But, as in youth sports, have you ever dealt with whining parents (ie: we don't have a computer, we don't have a printer, I didn't know, etc.,etc)

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seems to me if thats the way all the courses are run, there really isnt a need for them!

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Well, I'm sure the safety course gives a very good outline of do's and dont's but, the main responsibility belongs to the parents. I would encourage my sons to try the larger machine, even if they didn't fit the requirements and could test out on it BUT, I will be the judge as to what machine they will ride. That way, I won't have to take them back again, maybe in the next year, to retest on a larger machine. It's still parental control that some don't seem to understand and take seriously.

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as for firearms saftey alot must have changed since i went thorugh it. when i did tests were taken on an individual basis, not as a group. you didnt receive a pasing score YOU DIDNT PASS! when it came to the actual field day, no comments were made of "everyone will pass unless you shoot an instructor". several kids in my class failed because they didnt follow gun safety rules.

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Out of 100 kids in our group last month, everyone passed. Each ansered individually but the group took the test as a group, after the instructer read the question. Although, after the written test, a group of about 8 were taken aside with their parents and they went through some of the questions together. They obviously answered some wrong since I overheard the instructor telling the small group that they want to make sure they understand to "NEVER take out a firearm unless your parent is with you". Yup, I'm all for "you pass with certain points or you fail, period" but, today's society is setting the stage with the "my child can't fail" syndrome.

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thats a far cry fgrom what i experienced with my daughter at the atv safety course.

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Actually, my son has to do the ATV safety, so, I'll see 1st hand what's going on there.

[castmaster]

Dave,

by taking the test as agroup i meant this....the instructor read the questions, the group then discussed which one they thought was right (and if the concensus was for the wrong answer the instructor would "lead" them to the right answer) and then mark their tests!!

from my understanding there were options available for people without computer access to take the pretests.

and i dont want this in any way to seem like a slam on the great individuals who volunteer untold hours to teaching these courses and working with our kids. just seems the whole thing should be taken more seriously, which is why i was asking lep if all courses were run similar to what i experienced.

as for the whining parents who are turning things into "my kid cant fail" how far is it accepteable to take that? should the written and driving test to get a drivers license be handled in the same way this atv test was? should schools stop failing kids for not meeting the requirments to pass on to the next grade? i mean c'mon already!!

[castmaster]

"Well, I'm sure the safety course gives a very good outline of do's and dont's but, the main responsibility belongs to the parents. I would encourage my sons to try the larger machine, even if they didn't fit the requirements and could test out on it BUT, I will be the judge as to what machine they will ride. That way, I won't have to take them back again, maybe in the next year, to retest on a larger machine. It's still parental control that some don't seem to understand and take seriously."

i agree with much of what you said...and i am perfectly cpable of making those decsions for my daughter without her having had to wait a year and a half before she was old enough to take this test. during that time she was only able to ride a very limited amount on private land, when she could have been enjoying the sport well before her test!

explain the logic that says 10 and 11 yr olds can be supervised and taught by their parents for 2 years of riding enjoyment, but when they turn 12 thats no longer good enough and they have to take one of these tests to ride the saame areas they've been riiding for 2 YEARS!!

makes abolutely no sense to me.

[Dave S]

OK guys I'll try to sum up some fo the questions here.

First off, there is no way the instructors should have allowed someone who was too small to take the test on a Sportsman 500 (based on your description). However, on a side note: if this child was ever stopped by a Conservation Officer, with a parent or guardian, the parent or guardian could receive a ticket for allowing an underage youth to operate a machine in which they do not fit. Not to mention it's way too dangerous for these kids to operate machines that the parents feel the kids "can grow into".

I'll be the first to admit the instructor was in the wrong. It set a poor example of what's permissible.

I have heard of the open testing sessions as well. Some kids, including myself at that age, had troubles with written tests. But, this doesn't mean that these kids don't how to ride or lack some of the common sense required in day to day life. You'd be amazed at some of the kids in the classroom and their mechanical abilities. I can say that I don't totally disagree with the open testing. By discussing the right or wrong answers, we can ensure the kids are getting the most information from the course. It's a plain simple fact that some parents put their kids through this course as a technicality and this is unfortunate. Regardless of a passing or failing grade, they will continue to do the things they do. Be it ride irresponsibly, beyond their limitations, or without respect of their surroundings and the environment.

One of the biggest problems we face are parents, who themselves, don't understand the risks associated with riding ATV's. I try to get at least one parent per child into the classroom. I also try to give some very graphic details of people around me who have been in severe accidents or have lost children to ATV accidents. I know many.

I feel that myself and the instructors I work with in Le Sueur put on a excellent course. I had a new instrucotr from another club attend with his son yesterday who I will be working with in the fall on their first course.

Castmaster,

you hit the nail on the head when you said that parents are ultimately the ones responsible for what the kids are doing. Some parents don't like to hear it, But it's a fact. The down side is, some parents don't have a good set of ethics to pass down through the generations.

We emphasize in our course that ATV's are not a baby sitter and they are not a toy. They are powerful machines that can kill and must be treated with respect. We also emphasize that helmets are NOT A LIFE INSURANCE POLICY. One of the kids I know died 7 days after his accident from a brain hemmorage. And yes he was wearing a helmet.

[Dave S]

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explain the logic that says 10 and 11 yr olds can be supervised and taught by their parents for 2 years of riding enjoyment, but when they turn 12 thats no longer good enough and they have to take one of these tests to ride the saame areas they've been riiding for 2 YEARS!!

makes abolutely no sense to me.

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As far as the 10-11 year olds being allowed on the trails without a safety certificate or any type of safety training, it does, in a way, seem like a contradiction.

I think the point of this was the fact that ATVing has turned into a very popular and family oriented sport. I think the DNR went out on a limb with this one in hopes that these kids will get the exposure before they are required to enter the classroom to ride a full size machine.

I stressed this point yesterday in my class. At no time should a youthful operator be put infront of the pack to lead the way while out on public lands/trails. It is too easy for someone to be hauling tail around a corner and NOT see the smaller machine. I guarantee you everytime the larger machine will go over the top of the smaller machine, killing the youthful operator if any amount of speed is involved. These smaller machines should be either behind or inbetween the larger machines in the group to help shelter them from oncoming traffic. The youth machines should also have working headlights and taillights.

The safety training on the other hand is intended to permit kids 12 and older to ride a full size machine as long as they fit the 8 requirements. They might fit a Honda Recon, but will not fit the 500 Sportsman. The certifications are ONLY valid as long as the operator meets these requirements. So this operator could legally ride the Recon with the certification, but not the Sportsman. My oldest son, who just turned 16, stands 6' 3" and weighs 180 lbs. Based on manufacturer requirements, he could only ride a machine 90cc or less at the age of 15 (1 month ago). In this case, the machine would be too small for him to operate and be more dangerous than if he were on a full size machine with a reasonable motor displacement (i.e. 250cc).

I had one student in class yesterday that took his test on a Polaris 330. They also had a 400 Sportsman on the trailer. The big misconception with the parent was that the 330 was a smaller machine. In motor displacement.....yes.....in erogonomics of the machine.....NO. It was basically the same machine as the 400 they brought, just a smaller motor.

Motor displacement is not a consideration when it comes to sizing up a youthful operator for ATV's or snowmobiles. Should it be? I personally think so. There is no logic in putting a 12 year old on a snowmobile that puts out 175hp or an ATV that puts out 62hp. There should be some common sense when allowing a youth onto a full size machine. Unfortunately for the kids, some parents don't possess it and this is their responsibility.

We can't expect the state to pass new legislation everytime someone does something stupid and create more restrictions for those who can handle the machines they want to ride.

Again, if you have any questions, please feel free to ask.

Dave, if you have a son/daughter that needs safety training this summer and don't mind driving to Le Sueur, contact me. You can look up scheduled classes on the MNDNR HSOforum as I'm sure you already know. I currently don't have any more on there, but will in the next 3 weeks.

Dave Sunderman

MN DNR ATV Safety Instructor