Yamaha motor issues

[svttom01]

I have a Yamaha V-Max 150 (2004, carb) and towards the end of last season it began giving me trouble. The engine would start up fine but could not idle and would shut off almost immediately. I brought it into the dealer I purchased it from (Crystal Pierz) and they quickly diagnosed it that the problem was the carbs, and that they needed cleaning. I took excellent care of the engine (proper maintence, etc) and he told me that cleaning/rebuilding the carbs was considered maintenance and not covered under warranty. Is this normal as far is the engines carbs needing to be rebuilt after 2 years? I winterized the boat and never had the carbs rebuilt/cleaned. (fyi-the dealer told me the cost would be about $600)

On a side note, anyone use Seafoam religiously with every tankfull? Is it worth it? Thanks for any help.

[john.wells]

A few things to consider- had you been using the boat frequently? Did the problem occur suddenly, or a gradual loss of performance? Did you possibly get fuel from a station that might not get a high volume of turnover (stale fuel/water in fuel)? I would suspect that you don't have a dirty carb problem with the info provided, but it is possible. Did your dealer actually put your engine in a tank and run it, or did they just assume the problem was dirty carbs from your description? I think you should get a second opinion from another dealer and possibly contact Yamaha. As far as Sea-Foam goes, I wouldn't advise using it on a regular basis. It changes the octane and volativety rating of fuel and the newer engines we have now are very sensitive to this. Yamaha has a product for this purpose-use it and follow the directions. Nothing against Sea-Foam, but you really need the right stuff especially when warranties are involved.

[Valv]

Suggestions above are good, but it is tough to diagnostic a problem just by reading your description, especially if motor has been already diagnosed from a dealer. Suggestion about being tested in tank is good, even thought I assume it was not. I agree with dealer being probably 90% fuel related and since dirty and gummed carbs are a common factor I would point toward same conclusion. It doesn't have to be correctly winterized only. If you use your motor on opener then later in july, the gas left in the bowls will cause problems.

It can also be a combination of circumstances. I disagree with the use of SeaFoam, it is probably the best OTC products to help fuel system, even though many people think it's a "medicine", sometimes it might help fixing problems but it is not the "solution in a bottle" many people think to find.

[caseymcq]

I know of several people that had Yammy 80 hp 4-strokes that had carb problems. They would use one can of SeaFoam every time they filled their gas tank. Problem solved. I wouldn't think if you have a gas tank 15 gallons or bigger that one can of SeaFoam would do much to change the octane rating of your gas.

[delmuts]

i had to have the carbs cleaned right after i bought this boat. my 1990 yam 90hp.( it hadn't been taken care of) the guy told me to run seafoam in it all the time, but this is a older motor too! it hasn't missed a beat since!

[marine_man]

A lot of good points have been made here already... especially the one about how long did the boat sit inbetween uses / fuel fills...

Gas does not stay "fresh" very long anymore, and I would reccomend using some form of fuel stabalizer in most larger fuel tanks... given that you have a boat with a 150 on you probably have a fairly large fuel tank... and the chances of using all of that fuel with in a month or so are pretty slim for most people... use some form of fuel stablaizer, whether it is sea foam, OMC 2+4, etc... that should prevent your carb problems from coming back... if that's what they really are.

I do agree that it likely isn't covered under warranty and is a maintenance thing... sorry to say that, but that's the way the warranties are...

marine_man

[kjgmh]

As stated above I would highly recommend a fuel conditioner, I use BRP 2+4. I also run BRP Carbon Gaurd. I have not seen anyone with fuel related problems that uses both of these additives as directed. Make sure to add to gas everytime that you fill up. If you add these to old gas it does no good. That is a mistake that a lot of people make. They put the stabilizer it at the end of the year for winter, but the gas is already 2 months old.

Some people will say that they have never had to do this and have never had problems. This may be true, but as gas gets more and more expensive it is also getting lower in quality.

Also have the dealer check adjustment on your oil pump, some of these came from factory adjusted way rich.

[TSCTSC]

Hmmm....are u guys saying that a 4 stroke is more difficult to maintain than a 2 stroke? I have never had to put any fuel conditioner or additives in my 2 stroke except in winter when I run stabil and/or sea foam at the advice of others.

[ccarlson]

I always get a kick out of dealers that say a carb needs "re-building" or a "carb kit".

I also have a yamaha 150 (1994)and I have had the same problems if the gas has sat in the carbs and I just pull the carbs off, spray them clean with some carb cleaner and most importantly run some small guage stiff wire through the jets. It takes about an hour at most. Certainly not worth $600 when you can do it yourself much more easily than most people think.

Last year after doing this, my 150 ran better than the day I bought it.

I do the same thing with my snowmobiles and it really isn't difficult.

ccarlson

[Valv]

Quote:

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I always get a kick out of dealers that say a carb needs "re-building" or a "carb kit".

I also have a yamaha 150 (1994)and I have had the same problems if the gas has sat in the carbs and I just pull the carbs off, spray them clean with some carb cleaner and most importantly run some small guage stiff wire through the jets. It takes about an hour at most. Certainly not worth $600 when you can do it yourself much more easily than most people think.

---

Just because you are capable to do a little maintenance work to your motor it doesn't mean everybody can, and you shouldn't ridicule them.

Can you replace water pump in yours ? Or rebuild lower unit ? Probably not, but nobody makes fun of this situation. A dealer that disassemble a 2004 motor and sprays some cleaner in the carbs to me is not a delaer, it's shadetree mechanic just like me and you. If you know what it's involved into this, you might change your opinion.

To this I have to admit that $ 600 is not actually the greatest rate, but this time of the year until may it's busiest for any dealer around here.

[TSCTSC]

Yeah....you make it sound it is real easy to pull the carbs. This carb thing has always been a mystery to me. My greatest leap of faith has been to change my plugs. I bought the torque wrench and everything to do it. It turned out quite fun actually. So...where is the carb and how exactly do you pull it?

So does this mean that 4 strokes are more susceptible to bad gas than 2 strokes?

[Valv]

Ehhmm, I am sure if yours has them they are 4 not 1, or you might have Fuel Injection, depending from year and motor model

I wouldn't do it.....

[svttom01]

When I brought it in the dealer did run the engine in the tub or whatever it's called. They also checked the gas lines/etc. to make sure there weren't any obstructions. As far as the engine and it's problems, it seemed like it happened overnight, or at least over the course of a couple days. I am beginning to think it is carb related because whenever I would try to accelerate it would just have no power, like it wasn't getting any fuel. Thankfully I was fishing small lakes late in the season and really only need my trolling motor 99.9% of the time.

[john.wells]

given this little bit of extra info, it could be something as simple as the primer bulb- it is a common issue and will create the problems you are describing. There is a one way check ball in the bulb, and if it goes bad, the engine will essentially starve for fuel. Did you or the dealer check to see if the ball stays relatively hard when running? If you do have a problem with it, spend the 20 to 30 bucks for a good one with proper size hose for your application (whether it be Yamaha, Mercury, Evinrude etc... brands). Those cheapies may or may not work out of the box, and if they do, they most likely won't last a season.

[delmuts]

i wonder about the fuel filter too.

[Ufatz]

Yah, you betcha fellas. What you got here is a pinhole leak in a fuel line or pressure bulb. Could also be the small fuel filter.I'd bet a doughnut that is where the problem is. One must always keep in mind the consideration that outboard motors are a creation of the Devil!!

[ccarlson]

Hey Valv, Lighten up. I wasn't being critical of the owner of the boat who posted the question, I was being critical of a dealers that tell us we need carb kits and carb rebuilds when often times a simple cleaning will do. Geez, for $600 I bet you could get new carbs for the motor and put them on yourself.

A good mechanic, shade tree or not, will do what we need done to get the motor running correctly without doing overkill work like putting new parts or seals in a carb that doesn't need them.

Another point I'd like to make is that these things are not that difficult even for novice mechanical people. If you know enough to be on FM asking the question, you probably are a step ahead of many others that don't even ask the question and just drop it off at the dealer.

If you've done your homework (like asking fellow FM'ers that know what may be wrong with your motor) and you think you've got it narrowed down, what's wrong with just seeing if you can get the carbs or something else off the motor and taking a look at them. I guarantee we learn something everytime we do this.

One trick if you are not sure how something comes apart or will go back together is to take a digital picture of the part at each step of dissasembly so you will have a reference of what parts go back on which way. A video handi cam works great too. I have a tape that I use for just such purposes.

No matter what level of mechanical handiness we are all at, we should always try to get just a little more confident and capable of doing our own work. We don't want to perpetuate a society of people dependent on having someone else always doing our work for us. It ends up costing us way too much to do this. Being handy and mechanical, no matter on what level, is a great thing to pass on or to learn from someone that knows what they are doing.

Besides, doing your own work is a great excuse to buy new tools.

Have a good day.

ccarlson

[marine_man]

Quote:

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As far as the engine and it's problems, it seemed like it happened overnight, or at least over the course of a couple days.

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How old was the gas when you first noticed this? Have you / had you been running fuel stabilizer through also? This would help narrow down whether it's a gummed up carburetor or a fuel supply problem...

marine_man

[kjgmh]

Did dealer try running a known good shop tank? That will show if problem is in supply side. To properly clean the carbs they need to disassebled, soaked, cleaned and blown out. It only takes one plugged jet to burn down a motor. Can you get away with just sparying them out, probably most of the time, but that one time you can it gets real expensive.

[Wayne Ek]

I had a simular problem with a 200hp yamaha. I would get it up on to plane, then it would shut down. Took to trips to service center. Seems there was 2 bad bladders in fuel system which had minuscule holes, the pressure would drop the computer would read the drop and shutdown the engine to protect it... go figure. Once that was fixed it worked fine.

[EJ]

ccarlson,

I hear where you are coming from. While I am quite the novice mechanic, I like trying to do what I can so when something goes wrong I may be able to do something about it. Also, it isn't the $ at the dealer/mechanic as much as the time they have your rig.

EJ

[ccarlson]

kjgmh,

As I said in my original post, I like to use a light guage wire to push into the jet holes along with the carb cleaning spray. The compressed air as you mentioned also works great. I still like the positive feel I get knowing the the wire carefully feeds through the hole where as air can blow against a plugged hole and we may not know it as easily.

For a novice, just try cleaning the carb without tearing the whole thing apart (taking out all the adjustment screws etc.) Spray, blow air, use a wire on the jets you can see by just taking the bowl off. Once you get more comfortable, go for more such as full dissassembly and soaking.

One way to check your work(should you decide to try it yourself) is to do the carb work and then check each spark plug to see if they all look the same after you run it at idle and then again at higher speeds (color, wettness etc.).

No scare tactics now that our motors will burn up if we try to fix them ourselves. (Insert Garage Logic playing "It's the end of the world as we know it") Obviously there was a problem to begin with if we're digging in there and if we don't fix it, it will still be there.

There is always the chance that a piece of crud could come loose from our carb bowl and plug a jet at any given time and do the same damage anyway.

And, if we try to fix it ourselves and don't succeed, we now feel a lot better paying someone to fix it for us.

ccarlson

[john.wells]

Quote:

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Yah, you betcha fellas. What you got here is a pinhole leak in a fuel line or pressure bulb. Could also be the small fuel filter.I'd bet a doughnut that is where the problem is. One must always keep in mind the consideration that outboard motors are a creation of the Devil!!

---

I will never forget when I was in training what my instructor told us- "99% of the time it is something simple". While outboards can be quite intimidating for the novice mechanic, they are unbelievabably reliable when put side by side with other types of engines. When problems do arise, most times they are something not so catastrophic as they may seem. And, yes, a carb job could easily cost 600 bucks. I do almost all of my own work-it is what I have been trained to do. There are some things that I bring to a dealer if I don't have the special tools for the job(which sometimes cost close to what the job costs). To pull the carbs off and rebuild can be a very extensive job-outboards and most anything now have been engineered to pack the most components in the smallest compartment to decrease weight and increase performance. This means integrating many pieces which takes time to correctly do the job. I don't know if the original poster necessarily do the work himself, just wants to know if he is being ripped off. There are some simple things to check before bringing in your equipment. This is the neat thing about this site-lots of knowledge to help from getting the shaft. If you do want to work on your own stuff, I would HIGHLY recommend buying a GOOD manual for your equipment. I have had good luck with Clymer brand. If you don't feel comfortable doing your own work, then don't even attempt to try. You might wind up doing more harm than you think with what might seem like a "simple" problem.

[Valv]

I agree with some issues, but my now my question is:

Who will claim responsibility if after a carb teardown and rebuild, the motor will loose compression and needs rebuilt due to incorrect carb adjustment/lean cylinders/oil injection not adjusted ? Does anybody that replied with an invitation to "take it apart" can stand behind his words ? With a warranty ? Nope, nobody can.

Reason I cautioned doing this kind of work is motor is new, or almost. 1 carb cost more than $ 600 new (he has 3 of them) and motor in the thousands. I agree trying to pinpoint a problem or get some hints/suggestions before going to dealer, but telling somebody that never had mechanical experience to "take carbs off and clean them up, it will solve the problem" I don't think it's correct.

FYI a "carb kit" is a complete set of gaskets, diaphrams, small parts, etc that needs to be replaced when a carburetor is disassembled.

So, I stand behind my suggestion to try to help with some information, then bring it to a dealer, and maybe have an estimate from other dealers.

They DO warranty their job, and $ 600 is a whoooole lot cheaper than a new powerhead.

These ain't snowmobiles.....

[svttom01]

I appreciate everyone's help in this matter. Although it has been a troubling time trying to diagnose this problem, I have a slight inclination that is indeed, something simple, more than likely a small leak or bad primer bulb. This spring I plan on changing the old one out. Does anyone have any idea what this will cost and safe precautions to replacing this part? Thanks once again for any help whatsoever.

[knoppers]

oil injection setting is in the carb??????

first off, if you pull the carbs, and remove all the fittings and jets. remember what there settings are, I believe the manual will tell you that the air adjuster screw should be turned out 1 1/4 turns etc. but its good practice to remember where it was before removing.

I have torn apart carbs, and soaked all the parts in solvent, then blast them with air. this has worked wounders. not too many times a carb needs to be rebiult or needs new components.

I have a 175 hp yami, it has run bad becuase like said earlier, the gas tank is large, in my boat its 40 gallons. this over time can collect water, and the water is what gave me the bad performance, plus its very bad to a motor.

I now put in conditioners throughout the year, and always give it a stabilizer when not being used for any period of time.

carbs are the biggest factor in poor performance, thats why my next one will have a EFI.