Hen Question

[simcox282]

Lets say you were pheasant hunting with your dog. Your dog catches a bird in her mouth and kills it. To your horror it is a hen. What is the legal thing to do?, and what is the ethical thing to do?, or are they the same. thanks

[swampman]

I asked a co that exact question one time and was told to leave the bird for the buzzards . seems like a waste but i can see the co's point because they would have no way of knowing how you actually got the bird.

[gspman]

The legal and ethical thing to do is to leave the bird in the field. If you get caught with a hen in your game bag, no matter how you got it, you will be in a lot of trouble.

[simcox282]

That is what I thought as well. Thanks for you responses

[Nova]

What about this, on one of my morning hunts I jumped 2 roosters and 5 hens. One rooster was leading the pack by about 10' 25 yards ahead of me. I shot the rooster in front and hit it dead, but the 1st hen 10' behind him fell with a single pellet in her head...I am not sure, but maybe a stray pellet. I was all alone. I did not shoot at the other rooster because I had downed my legal limit. Do I leave the hen? I never shoot into a pack of birds just for this reason, but the lead rooster was 10 feet in front of the pack and the way he folded I know he took the majority of the pattern(3" 4 shoot steel). I have a hard time leaving game in the feild that I have downed. What would you do?

[CaptainMusky]

Unless your barrel was 4" long, I find it hard to believe that the pattern could have been opened that wide in that short of a distance. 25 yards and have a 10' pattern? I suppose one can never put too much faith in the quality of the loads we buy.

At any rate, leave the bird. There is a fox, owl, weasel or eagle out there that will eat it. Why would you even think about taking it with you? I mean, the law is the law.

That is almost like having a flock of geese fly in and there just happens to be a swan in the group (I've seen it happen) and you end up dropping the swan. Should I take it home? I think not. Accidents happen, I have shot a hen by accident once. It happens. Leave the bird.

[brittman]

you don't shoot if a swan is in the mix.

[CaptainMusky]

Then I suppose you shouldn't shoot if a hen and rooster are flying together?

[Nova]

Captain, I understand the law, but it doesn't just say you can't have one in possesion, you aren't supposed to shoot one. I made a mistake and took a shot I shouldn't have; although I didn't think it was a bad shot at the time, but I did keep the bird and made up my mind if I saw a warden I'd tell the truth and let him write me if he wanted. If he was watching me he would have known I only shot once. As far as my pattern being that wide, I don't think the pattern was, just a stray pellet out of the shell. I have shot at a flock of ducks before and had the lead one and one in the back of the flock drop with the rest being untouched. With the high volume that the shells are produced at I don't doubt you get an awful pattern once in a while.

[CaptainMusky]

Nova, I agree. The shells these days leave a lot to be desired. I am sure that is exactly what happened. Terrible luck.

I was hunting with my dad once and we had 8 pheasants jump to the air literally all at once. I yelled rooster since there was one rooster in the group and my dad fired the only shot and dropped a hen. As he pulled up a hen flaired to the side and he nailed it. He hasn't had a bird fold up that nice ever! It happens. Personally, I would have left the bird versus possibly getting hassled by the CO, but you didn't let it go to waste which is good. I hear hen pheasant tastes a lot like Bald Eagle. :-)

[koutdoors]

Hey, if my dog catches a hen (very unlikely at his age), it's coming home. Not sure how it can be ethical to leave a bird. Either way, that would be illegal and considered wanton waste.

[gspman]

ksoutdoors,

I couldn't disagree more. Wanton waste is the intentional killing of an animal or fish and letting it go to waste. Dogs catching hens, and hunters shooting hens is an accident, not intentional and therefore not wanton waste.

Part of being ethical is following the law, whether you agree with the law or not. Ethics should not be above the law, rather they should include the law. The law says "no hens" no matter what. If your ethics allow for doing things that are unlawful then I'd say you aren't being ethical.

If we allow hens to be taken when killed accidentally then a whole pandora's box will be opened. I guarantee accidental hen deaths will be rampant.

[setterguy]

I couldn't agree more, it is illegal to take a hen. No matter how you came about it. Even if you found it dead in the field it is illegal to be in posession of a hen. Wanton waste does not apply in this situation. It would be like catching a walleye out of season and keeping it because it was going to die. You throw it back, however silly it seems, it is the law.

[koutdoors]

"Part of being ethical is following the law, whether you agree with the law or not. Ethics should not be above the law, rather they should include the law. The law says "no hens" no matter what. If your ethics allow for doing things that are unlawful then I'd say you aren't being ethical."

Funny...YOU are saying "the law says 'no hens' no matter what", BUT if YOUR dog catches a hen, I'd have say his limit is included in YOURS making YOU the lawbreaker. Sure, you may not have done it on purpose, but it happened. I'd say the ethical thing, since YOU broke the law, would be to turn yourself in. But, that won't happen so I'd at least keep the bird so it doesn't go to waste. If you're ok with wasting birds, then I'd have to question who is ethical here.

Oh, by the way, did you speed today? Roll through a stop sign???? Unethical!!!

My whole point is, why waste a bird that could be eaten. I know most guys probably don't do it for the food, but WE still do. In fact, if your dog catches a hen, give me a call...

[gspman]

I don't know if I should laugh or cry.

Anyways, I stand by my post.

[rundrave]

Quote:

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My whole point is, why waste a bird that could be eaten.

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because its AGAINST the LAW to keep a hen, it doesnt get any simpler than that.

regardless if you think its ethical or not, its the law period. End of discussion.

[BDR]

I have posted this before. I had this happen before, shortly after I ran into a CO so I asked him what I should have done. He said you have no choice but to leave it lay. He said the DNR realizes that this is going to happen. It is the dogs instict to catch and kill. The Hen will be consumed by predators and scavengers, so it is one less live bird that they will kill.

I did leave the bird lay.

[koutdoors]

Well, choose for yourself what you would do. BUT, if you are going to say it's unethical to break the law...don't be a hypocrite!

You can waste your bird when it happens, I'll eat mine. Ever try pheasant?

[CaptainMusky]

What part of "limit of 2 cocks per day" don't you understand?

I cannot believe we are even debating this topic. There is no season for hens, if you shoot one and take it home or dog catches it and you bring it home it doesn't matter. BOTH are illegal.

If you want to harvest hens, go to a game farm.

[setterguy]

If you and your family honestly need the meat to survive then more power to you in keeping a hen. If not then you are simply breaking the law and should be willing to pay the consequences. And you are right, I do occasionally speed, but I don't pretend to be right about it, and if I get pulled over I would pay my fine and accept the decisions of the judge. No one can force you to do one thing or another, and of course there are going to be laws that you don't agree with, but what kind of world would we have if people got to decide what laws they thought could be broken, and which were really important?

[TundraKing]

Simply put, it is illegal to have a hen in your possesion.

Don't forget, the CO can take everything you have with you and more. Your vehicle, your gun, your right to hunt, etc... Not to mention a fine or worse.

You can think of a thousand ways to dispute it, but they are going to do their job.

Be safe and good luck hunting!

[koutdoors]

"Simply put, it is illegal to have a hen in your possesion."

Now finally, a statement with some sense! I'm sure all you perfect, law-abiding pheasant hunters would agree with this previous statement, right?

Simply put, it is illegal to have a hen in your possesion. THIS APPLIES AT ALL TIMES, EVEN WHEN THE CO IS NOT LOOKING. Your dog cathes the bird, it is now in YOUR possession. The difference between YOU breaking the law and me is that I will take responsibility for my actions and eat the bird.

I'm sure you will all try to argue this but save it. However you put it, you're a law breaker.

[fivebucks]

My dog caught a hen this weekend that won't make it but I did not even think twice about keeping it. It's a no brainer. I don't care about the wanton waste because a CO would never ticket you for that in this situation. The penalty for having a hen in possession outweighs everything else. If your dog catchs a hen, you did nothing illegal. If you shoot one, you broke the law but I still wouldn't keep it in that case.

[CaptainMusky]

You cannot control a dog's natural instincts to catch a bird. Are you oblivious to the comments by those who have even posed this question to CO's?

“POSSESSION” DEFINED (per 2005 Hunting Regulations)

Game animals are in a person’s possession whether on hand, in cold storage, in transport, or elsewhere.

Unless you have it on your person, it is not considered "possession".

You can try all you want to put a spin on things, but you are only convincing yourself that you are right. Go ahead, keep the hen. I hope one day it catches up with you. Just ask yourself this question, is it worth potentially losing your truck, gun, hunting and fishing priveleges, a fine, all for keeping a hen that your dog caught?

[koutdoors]

Well, some dogs bring birds back to hand, mine does. So maybe that is where I assumed wrong. You would then be, in your words, in possession of the hen. How can you possibly argue that? My whole point is this, you're illegal either way, keep the bird so it does not waste. Now if you're troubled with MY eithics, there really isn't anything I can do for you. If you're ok with letting a bird go to waste, then I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I know most of the CO's in my area and I have a hard time believing a trained CO is going to look at that bird and think that is was shot.

It's your call I guess. I'm ok with my decision.