Brad Johnson

[Roughfisher]

Three words: Pat Freaking Williams

OK, three more: Brad Freaking Johnson

Culpepper never was an NFL quarterback and never will be. But neither is the post-superbowl Brad Johnson, Todd Bouman, or Gus Frerotte, and what is their combined record in Minnesota? Why have the backups been coming in and looking like superstars and winning tough games for the last four years? Where the hell is Jeff George?

I liked having Culpepper as a Quarterback. I like a big, dumb SOB who outweighs all the opposing defensive ends playing quarterback for the Vikes. It's a great idea and some team is going to win the superbowl with some huge, freakishly large, deadly-fast young quarterback.

But this Quarterback's name will not be Daunte, because Daunte is done. Stick a fork in him, he will never be able to run the ball again after his catastrophic injury and will never be able to play the game as a pocket passer. Regardless of whether he comes back or not, he is certainly not worth the money he is making, because he is injured all the time and can't play. We could be using that money to pay the next Jim Marshal or Alan Page.

[nofishfisherman]

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Regardless of whether he comes back or not, he is certainly not worth the money he is making, because he is injured all the time and can't play.

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What are you talking about? That entire post has to be one of the most uninformed posts I have ever read.

Why do you say Culpepper is always hurt? Is it becuase this is the second time he has missed some time? Lets just ignore McNabb, Bulger, Vick, Pennington, Warner, Leftwich, Grossman, or any of the other QB's that have missed significant time this year. Looks like you are only going to be happy with Peyton Manning as QB and that just isn't going to happen.

Like I said before some vikings fans are so petty. A guy has one bad year and they are ready to string him up. Culpepper was having a bad year for the same reason Farve is having a bad year, the rest of the team just hasn't played to its potential.

What else could Culpepper do to earn everyones respect? Last year he had one of the best years a QB has ever had, and that was without Moss for almost half the year. Please tell me what he can do to make you guys happy.

[lawdog]

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A guy has one bad year and they are ready to string him up. Culpepper was having a bad year for the same reason Farve is having a bad year, the rest of the team just hasn't played to its potential.

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Really Culpepper has only had one good year! Last year was an anomaly where he didn't fumble all the time and didn't throw INT's. Now without the benefit of playing 10 vs. 9 football he proved to stink again!

[nofishfisherman]

2000-01 season

33 TD's 16 INT's

2003-04

25 TD's 11 INT's rated #3 best QB

2004-05

39 TD's 11 INT's Rated #2 best QB

With a career QB rating at 91.5

Peyton Manning only has a career rating of 93 and Manning has been on much better teams.

I bet if you looked at the lest few years Culpepper would be top 5 best QB's. He hasn't had a season with maybe the exception of this year where he finished in the lower half of active QB's. The stats just don't support what you are saying. He is at the very least better then average and if you can't see that then you just aren't looking at the stats and the facts.

[lawdog]

Add fumbles into your stats (not a QB rating stat) and you will see his numbers plummet. Rule #1 take care of the ball!!!

Also, Moss made him look much better than he is. There is no way to show it other than to watch now that Randy is gone.

As for Manning being on better teams, I really don't know, except for the differences in defense in special teams which don't really count for offensive stat comparisons, I'd say our offenses have had similar talent levels during the time they've both played. We have never been short on offensive talent while he's been here, that's just silly.

[nofishfisherman]

Randy made Culpepper look better last year? How did he do that while he was sitting on the bench.

And if it is the case then why isn't he making Collins look better this year?

I am tired of hearing that Randy is making Culpepper look good. Then Harrison and Wayne are making Manning look good and TO made McNabb look good, and Rice made Montana and Young look good. None of these QB are worth anything, they just have good WR's making them look good.

If that is the case shouldn't we be more worried about how bad out WR's are this year.

[Fishin Beast]

No body has ever asked for Peyton Manning, alot of people have asked for Brad Johnson. I was just saying it would be nice to find a Brad Johnson type qb that was younger that could generate a career here in MN. C-pepp is history, it is what can you do now. Truth is even washed up Brad is puttin C-pepp to shame right now. If C-pepp was so good then why couldn't he do anything at all in all the games he played this year. It doesn't matter if we are down 14-0, truth is we were down 14-0 because he would fumble or throw and interception, or just start the game with 2-3 horrible drives that would go 3-out. So his fault to begin with. Just because you are down doesn't mean you can go throw interceptions. They would be down 14-0 in the first quarter, last time I checked there are 4 quarters and plenty of time to catch back up.

No great qb should ever be known for how many times he turns the ball over.

[nofishfisherman]

Most of Culpeppers interceptions were thown after the team was already down by 2 scores. In fact 11 out of his 12 interceptions were throw after the team was already behind. He had to throw the ball and the opposing defense knew it becasue they couldn't run the ball at all.

He did try to force things when the team was down but he almost had to. Favre does the same thing but no one ever brings that up. Favre is the king of 5 int. days.

[CodyDawg]

Riddle me this: what is C-Pepp's career record? Is it over .500? It is not. If you want to look at stats, you better include that one. He is a great fantasy QB, but he is not a WINNER. Some QBs have it and some dont. Montana, Elway, Brady...were all winners and none of them dominated the passing stat sheet.

Some things that dont show up on a stat sheet:

Calling an audible at the right time.

NOT calling an audible at the wrong time.

Instilling confidence in your whole team.

Instilling calmness at key times to the offensive team.

Controling the huddle.

Avoiding the turnover.

Making things happen at crunch time.

Being a leader.

All of these things are trademarks of a WINNING QB and DC does not have them. I have always said, 90% of being an NFL QB is between your ears. There are very few guys that can combine the physical skills with the mental ability to be an effective NFL QB. DC has such dominating physical skills that people tend to forget or overlook the other skills.

Think about it this way, if your team was down by 5 with 50 seconds to go and 1 timeout and 80 yards to go, who do you want at QB? DC or Favre or Brady or Elway or Montana or Manning? Give Eli another year and I will take either of the Mannings.

By the way, I love that Peyton commercial where he asks the guy to sign the loaf of bread and says "my brother loves you". That is goooood TV folks.

[lawdog]

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Randy made Culpepper look better last year? How did he do that while he was sitting on the bench.

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YES! Moss had 14 TD's last year after all, that's a career best year for many recievers. That offense went in the tank as soon as he got hurt, check out the scores/yards in the first however many games before he got hurt as compared to the next 5 games.

Besides, whenever he was out there, even when hurt and aside from his own numbers, EVERY defense in the league had to devote two defenders to him on almost every play letting the other 10 guys play against 9 defenders. HOW CAN THIS NOT HELP A QB????????????? Good grief... Oh and Collins? PLEASE, he's pathetic and Moss is hurt just as much this year, but when healthy he was catching TD's from Collins too!!! He had more yards and TD's opening day than our entire recieving corps.

[nofishfisherman]

If not Cul-Pep then who do you guys want as your QB next year?

[fishyguy]

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It doesn't matter if we are down 14-0, truth is we were down 14-0 because he would fumble or throw and interception, or just start the game with 2-3 horrible drives that would go 3-out.

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I don't think you did your homework Beast. Daunte did not commit a turnover in the Cincy game until they were down 20-0. They scored on their first 4 drives. Atlanta was up 14-0 before Daunte committed a turnover. He didn't commit a turnover until the 3rd quarter against Chicago and Carolina scored on their opening drive before the Vikes even touched the ball. Looks to me like the defense was the issue for these starts. I don't want to hear about the 3 and outs. How many 3 and outs has Johnson had. He has had one scoring drive over 40 yrds if I am not mistaken. It is the defense that is the biggest reason for the change in the team.

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No great qb should ever be known for how many times he turns the ball over.

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I don't know. I think Farve has been pretty good although his career interception percentages might be very similar or slighlty worse than Daunte's.

I am not excusing Culpepper's play but if you asked every head coach who he would want at QB for his team. A healthy Daunte or Brad Johnson I am pretty sure you would have 32 answers for Daunte. Are all you Johnson backers more knowledgeable than each and every GM in the NFL?

[Fishin Beast]

I am more down on Dante because he was horrible. Down or up. I just like to see a chance at winning the games you are supposed to. And I am just saying there is no excuse for throwing an intercepion unless you are down with a few seconds to go and you have to throw a hailmary to the endzone. Even if you are down by 20 pts in the 3rd quarter, there is time if you use it correctly to win a game.

For next season I can see everyone trying to rush Dante in and hope he is ready. Even though if they do rush I can see him getting injured again and then we are in the same situation.

I wish C-pepp did get his head cleared out and can carry our team, but this was the year he should have done it.

In my mind I hope we go after a qb that is younger that hasn't had much of a chance to play behind another starter, but yet gained alot of experience behind the scenes. Rivers, Volek?, maybe draft a qb but then if we drafted we would have to wait a year or 2 to work him in. And I dont think Johnson is lasting another 2 years atleast as a starter. Maybe give Ryan Leaf a shot jk on that one. I may not know all the inside numbers, but I just want the Vikes to be able to win the games they should.

And anyone backing up C-pepp is aight because he would give us the best shot if he played like he has the potential to. But he hasn't done that yet.

[riverrat56]

One thing everyone needs to realize is that Culpepper (or any QB) isnt the only reason an offense isn't working, there are 10 other guys out there and it's a team game for a reason. Maybe we are winning with Johnson, but there are a few reasons there, 1 yes he doesn't feel a need to force a ball and he makes better desicions and protects the ball, but the whole team has begun to play better also because I think they realized that their "superstar" player is down and out. Maybe everyone decided to do there job finally. Also in 3 of the last 4 games the compition hasn't been as stiff as before that and that may have something to do with it.

Any way you want to look at it, football is a game of intensity and any week that a TEAM comes fired up and ready to play they can beat anyone in the league.

[nofishfisherman]

finally a few people speaking with some logic and thought behind their answers. Good to see finally.

About getting a different QB in here, RIvers is probably the only guy that you could reasonably expect to get. But he probably won't be cheap. Volek isn't going anywhere. McNair is not going to be around much longer and I bet Volek is tabbed as his replacement.

Based on Culpepper previous years there is no way he doesn't deserve a chance to come back and get his job back. Until this year C-Pep has gotten better and better each year and he is just completing his maturing process. He is still a young guy, what is he maybe 27-28 he has many good years left in him if he can come back from this injury which I do expect him to do in time.

Like it or not C-Pep is our best hope at winning in the future, he will learn from this year like he has from past mistakes. Last year he definetly turned around his turnover problem (11 ints, and I think 3 lost fumbles, that is pretty dang good comapared to the rest of the league)

[Havin' Fun]

I certainly do not think Culpepper is or was the problem for the team losing games. The O line stunk it up, we had and still have no real running game and yes, our defense was bismal. If you agree on those counts, which I can't believe you couldn't....don't you think even Peyton Manning, Joe Montana and John Elway would have stunk the place up some?

If you get sacked 40 times in 8 games....you either get a losing record, or a broken QB! We got both.

By the way, how many times has BJ been sacked? Line improving? Can we run the ball once in a while? Is the defense creating some turnovers?

About Randy Moss. Yup, he certainly helped Culpepper. Just like Owens helped Donovan; Chad Johnson helps Palmer; and don't forget Harrison and Wayne helping Manning.

[nofishfisherman]

Amen Hammer em'

Preach on. Glad to see another soul can see the light.

[milnortech]

If your qb gives up the ball 2 times a game on average that is potentialy 14 pts per game how can you win like that? that is just one team member. Throw in 2 fumbles from the rest of the team you lost the game. If I saw daunte improving on his mental game I would agree but that hasn't been the case.BJ gets rid of the ball faster than daunte and reads coverage faster daunte dosen,t read the field quickly and needs more time. If you watch these games he lost he had just as much time in the pocket as brad has in the last 4 games. His mental game is not there.

[CodyDawg]

I am so tired of hearing about how great DC was. He was NOT great. He is not even a .500 QB! Brad is playing with the same line and with less mobility but he doesnt get sacked. Again, DC has fantastic physical skills that make people forget that playing QB is a large part (mostly?) mental. And DC is not a smart QB.

Who would I rather have? That is a tough question, do I get to trade DC or do I have to add him as a FA? Assuming trade, I think there are 10-15 QBs I would rather have. All the obvious choices and a few backups. How about Matt Schaub? He ain't gonna see any time unless Vick breaks a knee. I really havent scouted QBs, so I dont have a list prepared, but I can tell you this, I don't want DC running the show. Take away his mobility and he is really gonna suck.

[nofishfisherman]

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Brad is playing with the same line and with less mobility but he doesnt get sacked

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In fact the line that Brad is playing behind is almost completely different. 4 out of 5 guys on the line have either been replaced or have been moved to a different position. Lewinski is out, Withrow is out, Johson was out and has no moved to take over for Rosenthal who is out and now Herrera is in. How is that the same line? Mckinney is the only guy still at his original spot.

And actually Johnson has been sacked an average of 4 times a game. That is not a great stat. And he has also fumbled 4 times.

Where do you get your info from becuase most of it is baiscally false. I want to hear facts not opinions that are stated like facts.

[milnortech]

Dauntes best year he coughed up the ballan average of 1 time per game ether by fumbling or interceptions.brads qb rating ranges from 75 to 92 for the years he played more than 11games in the season. with an over all rating of 84 is that bad.daunte coughed up the ball 31 times during the 2002-2003 season last two years were better but not good. why do these people not see this.because of the long balls bombs for tds? His running the ball? after this injury he is going to have to stay in the pocket . if he is even able to return.Why cant they see that brad is better for the team at this point than daunte. Yes we need to get another qb but brad is doing ok for now this is the same mentality that got rid of brad for cunningham what a bad mistake. an average qb with intelligence is worth more than agreat physical qb.....

[buzzsaw]

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Where do you get your info from becuase most of it is basically false. I want to hear facts,

not opinions

that are stated like facts.

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I always liked that one!!

[96trigger]

nofish, where are you getting your stats from? All stats are just opinions unless cited. All stats can also be misinterpreted, or the data can be massaged to show what you want. How many fumbles has B.Johnson lost and recovered, How many has D.C lost and recovered? How many downs has D.C wasted, how many has Johnson?

Minnesota fans have always been fickel. When the team wins, the dome is sold out, put in a couple of losing years, and the black outs force us to listen on the radio. We want to win, if D.C wasn't winning, then get us someone that does. Sad to think that, or that any other fans are better, but they are not. Many Packer fans are calling in to the radio shows saying its time for number 4 to retire.

I have never liked D.C as a team leader, he always seems to have the deer in the headlights look. He is a mouse when it comes time to hold himself or his team mates responsible. He doesn't make anybody on the team better he's a guy that doesn't know how to beat the upper eschilon teams. An injured center should not be the leader of the team. Teams need leadership just as much as they need talent. D.C. never wanted to rock the boat, just play on Sunday, well sometimes, thats not good enough. The great quarterbacks: Elway, Montana, Brady, Favre, McNabb, spoke openly about players and the organization. Since Winfield criticized the defense publicly, they haven't played better. D.C just wants to talk about the next game.

Yes, the Defense has greatly improved, so much so that they are the reason for our victorys (as well as special teams). The offensive line is still horrible, there is no way that people can be really watching the game and seeing how great they are. The big difference is the quick passes, the draw plays, the screens, the playaction passing. These help an offensive line look better because they don't have to block as long. Please, don't tell me the line has gotten better, you said it yourself, we are 3/4 of the way through a season and still don't have a set offensive line. Thats pathetic.

Do you guys think that the W.Recievers are complaing about having Brad Johnson as their quarterback. He has been able to hit 9 different receivers the last four games. Johnson is making the offense better because he is better suited for this gameplan and this team, not because he is the better athlete.

[nofishfisherman]

Stats have come from yahoo sports.

When you talk about fumbles I haven't broken it down between fumbles recovered and fumbles lost becuase in my mind it doesn't really matter if you put the ball on the ground its bad, maybe you get lucky and recover it but thats all it is, luck.

I haven't said that the line has played better every game. Like you said they have done alot of shorter passes and that makes the line look better.

It isn't a matter of Johnson fitting the system it is a matter of changing the system to match the QB and thats what the team did. I do belive that Culpepper could have benefited from a shorter passing game but that is up to the coachs to decide so I put the game plan on the coaching staff who has looked like a high school staff at times.

It seems that everyone is blaming C-Pep for the entire teams bad season. But actually the o line is bad the defense has played bad, the RB's have been bad, the WR's have been banged up and looked bad at times, and even though Edinger is better then we have had the last few years he still isn't mister automatice.

Every part of this team was horrible through the first half and now every part has been playing better and the QB is not solely responsible for this turn around and everyone knows that.

[Bobby Bass]

With his current experience Pepper could not run a short passing game cuz the man can not read d coverage. That has been his problem and why Johnson is doing so much better. Johnson has the experience to read the d and get rid of the ball in 3 seconds which is about all the time the O line can give him. Pepper was always looking for the home run every snap. ? no difference putting the ball down ... if you lose a fumble you lose possession, if you recover it is just a lost down and some yardage, you still have possession. I hate to tell ya this but this game is about winning not style points and looking pretty. Stats are for losers....except for the only one that counts win/loss .. I can't believe how many people having nothing better to do then complain about someone who is winning games. Not Brad himself but the team is winning...Let him finish the season and then see if you would like to have him return, I have always thought he was a great pick for a backup QB for MN and he is showing it. If Pepper was winning games I could care less how many turnovers he had or how many yards he was throwing for, but he did not win this year..tearing up his knee was an easy out for him because people will do nothing but say what if....I just hope who ever is the head coach next year will be able to put the hook to him if he does not produce WINS..