CY Young?

[CNY Tim]

Maybe it's a little early to discuss this but I wanted to throw it out there... Whom would you vote for of these front runners?

NL

Carpenter, Clemens, Willis

AL

Colon, Santana, Buehrle

[SledNeck]

I dont think Buerhle's name should be in consideration

[Down to Earth]

I think the NL is a lot easier choice than the AL. I think I'd go with Carpenter, Willis, Clemens in that order. Carpenter is #1 in wins, #3 in K's, and #2 in ERA in the entire league. Both Willis and Clemens are having great years as well, but I give the nod to Carpenter.

The AL to me is more of a mess. Though Santana has the K's and pretty good ERA, his lack of wins I think will take away votes. Cases could probably be made for Buehrle, Colon, and Garland. To be honest I can't even decide which one I'd vote for.

[Quackaddict9]

AL- Brad Radke

NL- Vargas (Marlins)

[juggs]

NL--Clemens. AL--Too close to call at this point, still three weeks to go. Right now I'd take Santana.

[Commanche Jim]

And why not, rubberneck? Because he wears a Sox Jersey?

Or because he's 2nd in the AL in era, 3rd in wins, and 1st in innings pitched??????????? All these stats are better than someone on the list above.

He had a longest streak in baseball going, second to only Steve Carlton, end this year because he was tossed out of a game. I'd be shocked if you knew what it was.

So please, enlighten us as to why he should not be included on this list. Or are you, once again, just trying to get certain people riled up?

[SledNeck]

AL- Cy Young List

1. Hes not gonna qualify but -Roy Halladay

2. Bartolo- He'll win (best pitcher on best team in AL)

3. Santana- Most impressive in all categories

[Commanche Jim]

Bartolo isn't pitching tomorrow, according to the radio reports here. Bad Back.

So, if Halliday doesn't qualify, then Buehrle leads the AL in ERA. If Buehrle wins tonight, he'll only be 2 behind Colon.

Buehrle has more wins and a better era than Santana. That's usually focused on the most by voters.

[SledNeck]

I dont see why wins are the main focus of CY young voting.I think if players have almost identical ERAs,BB,and such then you have to look at hits and strikeouts. Johan is most impressive in all categories considered. He has 2 less wins but one less loss than Buehrle. Plus his name is easier to spell.

[Commanche Jim]

His 1st name or last name is easier to spell?

[CNY Tim]

Clemens didn't help his case last night... Pulled in the third after allowing 5 runs and 5 walks. Cardinals got a big boost from Larry Walker's 457 ft. homerun with two outs in the bottom of the 8th. Marquis 1 earned over 8 innings got the win and Izzy closed the door. "That's a winner"

Magic number is 8...

[Down to Earth]

Quote:

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If Buehrle wins tonight, he'll only be 2 behind Colon. Buehrle has more wins and a better era than Santana. That's usually focused on the most by voters.

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You are really are reaching when you say he has a better ERA than Santana. They are only separated by .03. I will definately give you the wins angle, as Santana hasn't the best of run support and the Sox are ahead in the standings. I don't think it only comes down to these 2 pitchers as I don't believe Santana will be in the mix when its all said and done simply because his wins total isn't all that high and the Twins are not a first place club. I think those two things will sway the voters to either a Sox or Angels pitcher.

[genegodawa]

Don't know the "rules" on picking a winner, but for me it would have to be some combo of all of the above. Starting with W-L % (for substantial innings pitched) then throw in the "dominating" factor-K's, the consistency factor-ERA, try to account for the "bad luck/no support" factor only a little and then whoever is a Cub or ex-Cub gets moved to the top of my list. (Not really) And don't forget media hype.

No time to check all those stats, but certainly the names you guys have mentioned are all tops. Gut feeling is Carpenter helped his team the most. AL does seem a little harder to call this early.

Jim, in my mind Buerhle will loss media support with those "cheating" comments which shouldn't be but probably will hurt his chances. Since Santana has too much bad luck, I guess right now I would go with the ex-Sox guy-Colon.

[mnvikingsfreak]

since there is no clear winner for the American league just give 2 Cy Young's to the national league they have much better pitchers this year

[knoppers]

carpenter or willis in the NL, and to this day, I would say colon in the AL.

[genegodawa]

I don't think they are mentioning Santana and Garland in the same breath anymore, and isn't Buerhle now 3 wins behind Colon?

[Windy City Walleye Hunter]

OK CNY, here's my two cents. Be sure you vote on my thread as to the date the Sox clinch their division. I respect your opinion.

NL: 1st Choice-Carpenter 2nd Choice-Willis

3rd Choice-Clemens

AL: 1st Choice-Colon 2nd Choice-Buehrle 3rd Choice-Garland

Note: Third choice is a stretch in both leagues. Pretty sure Carpenter and Colon can start dusting off their mantle unless there is a huge collapse on either of their parts.

[buzzsaw]

Well heres the wrap from Jayson Stark!!

One of these millennia, the Los Angeles-Anaheim-California Angels were bound to have somebody win a Cy Young Award. Wouldn't you think?

Heck, until Bartolo Colon finally obliterated the Angels' Curse of Dean Chance Cy Young-less streak Tuesday, this team had seen 41 years, eight presidential administrations, 17 managerial administrations and 326 different men claiming to be Angels pitchers zip by without a single Cy Young trophy.

AP Photo

Johan Santana led the AL in strikeouts (238) and was second in ERA (2.87) in 2005.

And friends, that is one mind-boggling fact for a franchise that has employed Nolan Ryan, Frank Tanana, Chuck Finley, Bert Blyleven, Troy Percival, Mark Langston, Tommy John, Don Sutton and John Candelaria -- not to mention (at least briefly) Fernando Valenzuela, Jack McDowell and Luis Tiant -- in between Cy Youngs.

So now Colon has put an end to that streak -- the third-longest Cy Young drought in the sport (behind the Reds and Rangers). And though we gladly salute Colon for a terrific year, some of us still aren't so sure the right guy got the trophy.

Colon (21-8) did win three more games than anyone else in the American League. And he did become the Angels' first 20-game winner since 1974. And he did have a ferocious finish -- going 10-2 in his last 14 starts, 13-4 in his last 19 starts and 17-5 in his last 25 starts -- for a team that needed every one of his wins to hold off Oakland.

But what this voting really proves is that Cy Young voters are still mushy traditionalists who value the almighty "win" above all other indicators of who pitched best over six grueling months.

Not that there isn't something to be said for pitchers who find a way to win. That is, after all, the object. But Colon sure was helped out by his bullpen (which blew zero saves for him) and his run support (6.02 runs per game).

And if you zap wins out of the who-pitched-best equation and compare him with the guy who finished third in this voting -- Johan Santana -- it wasn't even close.

Santana piled up 81 more strikeouts, beat Colon in ERA by 61 points, allowed almost two fewer baserunners for every nine innings, and had more innings pitched, complete games and shutouts.

Hitters who faced Colon had a batting average of .254 against him. The on-base percentage against Santana was .250. Any more objections, your honor?

True, Colon had five more wins than Santana (21 vs. 16). But since Santana actually pitched more innings, how was that win gap his fault? The win differential is a stat we can attribute almost completely to their offenses. It's that basic.

Santana piled up 81 more strikeouts, beat Colon in ERA by 61 points, allowed almost two fewer baserunners for every nine innings, and had more innings pitched, complete games and shutouts.

Colon got a ridiculous 1.32 more runs per game than Santana did. And Santana's totals in his last three no-decisions tell it all: 23 innings, 9 hits, 3 runs, 0 wins.

But the history of the award tells us that no starting pitcher has won just 16 games over a full season and won a Cy Young. (Rick Sutcliffe won 16 for the 1984 Cubs, but he also won four games earlier in the year for Cleveland.) So fine. Why not give this thing to Mariano Rivera -- another man who actually pitched better than Colon?

Rivera, the runner-up, had the best season of his career. And that's saying something. He had his lowest ERA ever (1.38). He allowed his fewest baserunners ever (only 0.87 per inning). He had his best strikeout-walk ratio ever (4.44 whiffs per walk).

He gave up one run all season on the road. And he gave up one extra-base hit all year to the 120 hitters he faced with runners on base. Yep, one.

But clearly, some voters think relievers aren't supposed to win this award, either -- six of them didn't even list Rivera on their ballot.

None of this is meant to disparage the man who won this award -- because we can think of 30 teams that would be thrilled to employ Colon. All we're saying is that it's way too easy to count up wins and cast a Cy Young vote.

Maybe that approach made sense four decades ago, the last time an Angels pitcher won himself a Cy. But it was also a lot harder to turn on a computer back then.

Jayson Stark is a senior writer for ESPN.com.

[genegodawa]

Well, I finally have a prediction to crow about.

Now, let's predict next year's winner - Santana? That guy is good, but it's kinda hard to have 3 straight fantastic seasons-especially for a punchless offense.

[mnwild]

your right, he would be good if it wasn't for the offense. And the way its looking it will be like that as long as Pohlad is the owner. The guy has money but refuses to spend it on good players and a good coaching staff. Next year I doubt the Twins will be competitve after watching Cleveland's young guns blossum and of course the White Sox.

[fishyguy]

Quote:

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your right, he would be good if it wasn't for the offense. And the way its looking it will be like that as long as Pohlad is the owner. The guy has money but refuses to spend it on good players and a good coaching staff. Next year I doubt the Twins will be competitve after watching Cleveland's young guns blossum and of course the White Sox.

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I agree the Twins have been passed up by the Sox and the Tribe but you first line confuses me. I am assuming you meant to say that he would be a better Cy Young candidate if he was on a better team and not that he would be a better pitcher on a better team. I guess my point is, that if you go out and have Johan's ERA, strikeouts, Shutouts, WHIP, etc... but lose every game because your squad can't hit it still makes you a darn good pitcher and maybe even better than the guy who got hit harder, gave up more runs, walks and hits, but was on a team that could give him 3 times the run support with better defense.

[CNY Tim]

Way to go Chris Carpenter on the NL CY Young award!

[genegodawa]

My second, and only other, prediction to crow about.

[outdoor ran]

I was hoping Willis would win it. Whens the National MVP vote out.

[genegodawa]

I don't know, but it could be close between Lee and Pujols-but you know my first choice.