Tow vehicle performance increase?

[tomfromblaine]

I am looking for a little mid-range power increase on my blazer, has anybody had any experience with these control modules you plug inline with the vehicles computer? been doing some research but they all pretty much say the same thing.

[Powerstroke]

All of them are the same thing in general. Some have mroe features than others.

All of them will advance the engine timing for mroe power, but this will also require the use of premium fuel. Most can firm up your tranny shifts while the best ones can change your shift points so you can hold a gear longer, make adjustments if you've added larger tires so you speedo will read correctly, and they can also work as a code reader for engine codes.

I'm not sure which brands are available for the Blazer, but if you have one in mind pu tit up here and I'll tell you what I know about that company. The big ones are Superchips, Hypertech, and Jet.

[tomfromblaine]

Powerstroke,those are the one's i've been looking at, Jet has a couple of units stage-1 I just plug in and stage-2 I have to change a thermostat, theirs I presume, as far as running premium, I was thinking that would only be required during towing operations as the rest of the time I just motor around like an old "art. was also considering a high flow air cleaner system, I just don't know which items are compatible with each other. any help would be appreciated.

[Powerstroke]

I took a look at the Jet HSOforum to see what you were talking about. I think that the Stage 1 chip will be the best bet for you. You shouldn't need to run premium fuel, but if the chip is designed to run on 91 octane then you need to use the proper octane rating. You can't use the higher ocatane only when you need it and go to regualr the rest of the time. If the chip is in then you need to use the proper fuel or else you will create combustion problems.

These chips are made to work with any kind of bolt-on aftermarket items like high-flow intakes and exhausts.

Mid-range power is more dependant on horsepower than torque, so having a higher-flow intake and maybe a freer-flowing exhaust would free up a few ponies too, but they usually have a slightly negative effect on torque.

If you're interested, you should order the Stage 1 chip. Maybe get a new intake or at least a better air filter. If you've still got money left think about the exhausts. You can get a great exhaust for towing purposes that will exit out the side to keep your trailer clean and will not be noisy or drone.

[tomfromblaine]

Thanks Powerstroke, I think that module stated the power increase started at 2000 rpm and on up, and in overdrive I cruise at 2100 at freeway speeds but when towing I just stay in 3rd at about 2800-3000 still moving along pretty good. I'm hoping for a 10% overall increase in power with a new high flow aircleaner and that module should be noticeable and worth the money. Since you already looked at the Jet product can you think of another unit close to that price that may be a better choice?

[united jigsticker]

Tomfromblaine,

I have a 2005 Silverado Z71 with the 5.3.

The ENGINE has plenty of power. The problem is, on this truck for 2005 they went to a 3:42 rear end to assist in EPA milages.

What that did, obviously, is robbed me of alot of low and mid range power.

So...I installed a True-Flow intake system, which uses the factory air box, but a high volume intake tube, plus True-Flows high capacity filter.

The advantages of this is you retain the factory air-box which is sealed to keep water and dirt out, plus is directed to take in the freshest air from outside the vehicle, meaning, obviously, the coldest air.

Then I got a JET tuner. It has three different settings for performance if you do a "custom tune" program yourself.

You can select "regular", "mid-grade", or "premium" fuels. Each one will give you different performance results.

I selected regular, as I did not want to sink extra cash into gasoline, plus if you are towing, adjusting to the high end setting will lean out your fuel/air ratio, and might cause some problems.

I also adjusted my shift points. 1st gear + 3 mph, 2nd gear + 6 mph. These are only affected under harder throttle acceleration, and also will cause the tranny to drop to a lower gear at higher speeds when you get on the throttle (i.e. to pass someone) then stock did.

I also increased the shift firmness, which is merely removing some of the spark retarding during shift points.

The truck is quicker, and gets better fuel milage. You can hear the air intake as it has a nice deep throaty sound.

What I would suggest is getting a high flow intake, and get your engine dyno tuned. It is about an extra $150 over a chip, but will produce better perfomance results hands down.

Also, a better exhaust system like a Gibson for your vehicle would benefit.

If I do anymore to my truck, I will sell my JET tuner, have some headers and a dual exhaust system installed, get the dyno tune done, and call it a day. That will get her going.

(unless of course I come up with $5,000 and supercharge the ****!!!)

The JET tuner does rad codes, but you have to remove the Body Control Module fuses, as well as some other computer and vehicle monitoring fuses in order to reprogram your PCM.

It also will "alarm" your vehicles ignition disable device, causing the vehicle to not start once the tune is complete.

This is easily reset by disconnecting the battery to reset the computer.

I have not yet tried the premium setting on the tuner to see what results I would get, as it is a bit of a pain to pull and resinstall all the fuses to tune it.

Keep in mind that premium fuel is less volatile then regular fuel, and air/fuel ratios lean out the injection...problems could arise with heat, etc if not used carefully and properly.

If you want info on a Dyno tune, call Hitech Motorsport and talk to Bart. They're in Ramsey.

great guys.

[tomfromblaine]

U.J. I know what ya mean we used my buddies new Z-71 to pull my boat to a tourny a couple weeks ago and he had more torque but not that much more, althought it was like 96 outside, anyway the control module from Jet I was lookin' at is supposed to do all this and more, all I have to do is plug@play right? the fresh air intake was decided last nite comin' back from Millacs and seening how much better it ran with a little cooler air.

[Powerstroke]

What UJ was able to do is very indicative of the new breed of tuners, but I get the feeling that your Balzer is older than '96 so you have very few options available.

I do definately recommend getting an intake though. If you travel on dirt roads or in very dirty conditions like offroading and getting mud under the hood I would lookat something that utilizes the factory air box or replaces it. Check out truckperformance.com for aftermarket part availability. I think they are a Jet dealer too.

[tomfromblaine]

Nope, its a 99

[lawdog]

United... Would have been just as cheap to buy a diesel with all you are talking about.

You guys get carried away with some of these changes. 95% of the time you don't need to do a single thing to a factory vehicle to use it, or else you bought the wrong one to start with.

Just put a K&N filter in to bump up your air a little bit and live with what you have until you can buy a 3/4 ton with the diesel or 6.0 liter to tow.

[BLACKJACK]

Interesting thread since last fall I purchased a 24 foot travel trailer and then upgraded my truck from a 6 cylinder to a 2005 Chevy Silverado with the 5.3 I've been out on the road with it several times and what I've found is that I have plenty of power but what makes me nervous is the wind, especially when it starts catching that camper, I wish I had a heavier, bigger truck (but then you have to drive that bigger gas guzzler the rest of the year too). By the way, I do have the stabilizer hitch with stabilizer bars. I'm not enough of a mechanic to tackle those tuners and different air flow intakes you're talking about either so I guess I'll have to stick with what I have. The problem I have is that if I'm not comfortable with it, I'm definately not comfortable with my wife driving it, so then I end up doing all the driving.

UJ, what did you mean by this? Just the fact that you can't take off from a dead stop as fast?

Quote:

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The ENGINE has plenty of power. The problem is, on this truck for 2005 they went to a 3:42 rear end to assist in EPA milages.

What that did, obviously, is robbed me of alot of low and mid range power.

---

[lawdog]

In real simple terms, the higher the numbering of the gear (3:73 vs. 3:42) the more RPM's you will turn keeping your motor running in the power band and increasing the performance feel. What UJ is failing to consider though, is that they also went up to 17" wheels instead of 16" and that negated much of the effect of the drop from 3:73 to 3:42. Used to be the 3/4 tons had 4:10 gears and the half tons 3:73's. Now the 1/2's are usually 3:42 with the 17" wheels but you can still get the half with the 3:73 which would be a better puller but not as good for gas when not pulling. There are formulas and such that consider wheel size and gear ratios and all that and show you your RPM's, but I'm no mechanic and I don't have such a thing handy... My new '05 1/2 ton has the 3:42 rear end also.

[united jigsticker]

Lawdog,

Do you tow with your new Silverado? Do ya like it?

Mines a DAWG!!!

And what do you mean the 17" wheels negated the 3:42 gear ratio?

A 3:42 vs 3:73 means it takes more torque to turn the wheels.

Then, by going to a 17" wheel, alot of weight is added, plus a larger diameter to turn is taken on.

I had an 01' Tahoe with the 3:73 and 16" and it towed better then this 05'.

My father has an 04' with the 3:73 and that gets off the line plenty fast.

The ENGINE has the power but its used up at the rear end. What a waste.

I DID buy the wrong truck. But it does get excellent fuel milage when not towing.

When TOWING, it dogs too much, and I get about 10 mpg.

My dads gets 16 mpg when towing the same type and weight rig.

So...give and take.

Oh yeah...the 5.3 makes max hp at about 5400 rpm....In other words, gotta wind it up.

Live and learn. Next time, I will take transmission, rear end gearing, final drive gearing, and torque vs. rpm range into account before buying the next tow vehicle.

Although, with the high gears and my mods, freeway passing is out of this world...And the truck buries the 120 mph speedo pretty quick.

ONLY 4wd truck I have driven that will atke you to 100mph in 2 gears without over reving.

Next time....I'm buying a diesel and putting in a bully dog chip. Buddy has one in his dually....can still smoke the tires from a standing stop on dry pavement!!!

That's power baby!

[Powerstroke]

Wow this got out of hand with lots of misinformation.

First things first....Tomfromblaine, I looked at truckperformance..the site I told you about..and for less than $1000 you can get an intake, new exhaust and a Hypertech tuner. In my opinion, your money will be best spent on tuner first, then air in before air out.

Secondly, lawdog if you're not a mechanic then don't give people advice on vehicle performance questions. These people have purchased the vehicle they want for their needs. They aren't towing heavy trailer everyday to work, I bet they tow the large loads less than 30 days out of the year. Paying and extra $1000-2000 on their vehicle for improved performance is a heck of a lot cheaper than trying to solve this problem with a dealership.

And finally, the rear end gearing is least likely to be directly related to your RPMS in the engine. How bout your tranny? Anyway, your rear end gears provide mechanical advantage to your wheels by the driveshaft. Its just one more thing in the line between your crankshaft and the ground. Having 3.42 gears means that your engine has to work harder to turn those wheels and tires to move the same distance as a vehicle with 3.73's cause the numerically higher gear ratio has a greater mechanical advantage over the wheels. It creates the effect of 3.73's will create the effect of more torque. Take a "3/4 ton with 4.10's" that you mentioned. If you switch your 3/4 ton with a 6.0L (bigger engine and more power) from 4.10's to 3.73's, then you will make your engine feel weaker cause it will work harder to accomplish the same amount of work. All of a sudden your capable tow vihicle isn't what you thought it was but you get a trade off of better gas mileage.

Also, adding 17" wheels won't do anything but make the truck even slower because the wheels are bigger, heavier and have a greater rotating mass. The only way to negate a the change in gear ratios would be to make the entire rotating diameter of the tire/wheel combo smaller. The OEM tire size is either 265/75/16 or 265/70/17. These are exactly the same diamter tire on a different sized rim. Therefore, they lowered the gear ratio, kept the tire size the same and didn't add any more engine power. This means that your vehicle will feel weaker than it would have in the '04 model which had 3.73's.

ASnd in case I haven't been long winded enough, a comparison of Ford vs. Chevy. The Old style of Ford F150 with the 5.4L engine had 285hp rating, the Chevy with the 5.3L had 265hp. The Ford used 3.55 gears on all the trucks while the Chevy used 3.73 gears. Both trucks performed almost equally cause they had the same amount of weight and power to the rear wheels due to the variation in power and gearing. If the Ford had the same 3.73 gears it would take off faster and put more power to the ground. If the Chevy used 3.55's then it would been much slower than the Ford and unable to pull as hard.

Sorry for writing the novel. Anyone wanting correct answers to thier questions can email me.

ahamilton at mn dot rr dot com

[united jigsticker]

good info Powerstroke.

one mistake I think....

Old style Chevy was a 5.7 kicking 265hp, and the 5.3 was debuted with 285 hp in 1999. The 4.8 was debuted at 270 ponies, and now has 285, while the 5.3 kicks 295.

Oh the wonders of increased air intake, injection, and spark timing.

And in case anyone is interested, that is FLYWHEEL HP.

You LOSE 25-35% of your power through the drivetrain in an automatic transmission.

So, rear-wheel HP is actually only about 195-210 hp on a chev with auto and a 3:42....

A buddy was special ordering a 3/4 ton with the 6.0, 5 speed manual, and 4:10 rear....

All I said was....That **** should be STOUT!!!!

Oh...and one more thing of note:

A K&N (or any high flow air filter for that matter) alone will not produce great results on it's own.

The factory intake tube is restricted, so you will only get the max amount of flow allowed by the restrictive intake...in other words, you will get no more air to the engine with a K&N filter then you will with a new OEM filter.

So make sure, if ya want performance through increased air intake, that ya get the whole kit....udderwise...ya's gots yourself an $80 cleanable filter.

[tomfromblaine]

Thanks for all the info guys, I know questions like this will usually get solid info along with opinons which I still consider helpful, I have a strong backround in heavy commercial jet maint so this job should be a snap, but I haven't done any performance mod's on any vehicles for at least 10 years so I'm out of touch with the latest and greatest goodies and best bang for the buck for my needs. As for towing well I had to get a truck at one point but wasn't ready to pull the trigger on a new one so I ended up with this one. It wasn't my intention to get a 18ft Super-Hawk but I couldn't pass up on that deal , Thats how I ended up with this combination, alittle missed matched but works pretty good and I know there's quite abit more umph in that power plant I just don't want to spend a bunch a dough that I can be using for fishing and a stainless prop.. .

Thanks again for all the info.

PowerStroke, I may email you if you don't mind after I've decided on which products to buy just to run that particular combination by you to see what you think O.K.?

[Macgyver55]

This thread really did get out of hand. First off Tom said he was looking for a "10% overall increase in power with a new high flow aircleaner and that module should be noticeable and worth the money." Now all of the sudden we are into chips, and air intakes and dual high flow exhaust and thousands of dollars.

Sticking a couple thousand bucks into performance mods for pulling a trailer less than thirty days a year doesn't seem like a very big return on investment. I'm not saying that some of these things don't work, but remember their "claims" are under ideal conditions and are usually the maximum amount that would ever be realized. Most will produce less than advertised especially on poorly maintained or higher mileage vehicles. In addition most of these mods often result in less mileage either because of a change in driving habits due to the new "feel of power" or just plain using it cuz you got it! The manufacturers can make all the claims they want, but increased intake and exhaust flow is eventually results in less mileage. Read their literature carefully and you'll see that they cautiously claim " potential gas mileage improvements". Potentially is usually about as close as they often get to better mileage. None will guarantee it for sure. As for the power increases, ask to see dyno results to verify their claims on your specific vehicle. Torque is what you want for pulling. Horsepower is good ....but a 10 percent increase in torque will be noticed more than 10 percent in horsepower.

The thing that needs to be kept in mind, like Powerstroke said, "They aren't towing heavy trailer everyday to work, I bet they tow the large loads less than 30 days out of the year" Keep it in perspective a little bit, whats the added 10 percent gonna get you? If it takes you a quarter mile to pass someone and you gain 10%... you save 132 feet. Big deal, if you are cutting it that close anyway I hope we are not on the same roads at the same time.

Don't get me wrong, I like power and speed as much (or more) than most guys. I've got my name on more than one car going down a dragstrip in 9 seconds so I think I can speak from experience. Keep the motor maintained and tuned well, it is what it is. I've been down this road as have many others and found that no matter what you do you will still be wanting for "just a little more". Save the money to spend on fishing and a stainless prop, and eventually the truck you really want.

[Surface Tension]

I've been following this thread with some interest. My tow rig is a 92 F150 1/2 ton x-cab long box with a 302 auto. My largest boat is a 18' Browning. Its a very wide,heavy and deep boat with a 140 hp I/0. I certainly know its back there when towing and the trip from Superior to my home is over Duluth's hill. While I could accelerate and stop at the rate as my driving style when empty by using more peddle, I don't and the 20 mile trip takes me about 5 minutes longer. When pulling up the hill I do need different shift rates, thats easily done by myself manually by dropping it into second gear till I clear the knoll. Ya I sort of baby the truck and when I tow I ask more from it. Knowing it could do even more if I ask it to but instead altering my driving habits to save on the drive train and gas. Still the high flow intake and chip had my interest but I think I'll stick with what I got. Knowing my tank with a little 302 is out pulling those 350s is a comfort.

[lawdog]

Quote:

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Lawdog,

Do you tow with your new Silverado? Do ya like it?

Mines a DAWG!!!

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YES I tow my race car on a semi enclosed trailer every single week and it does just fine. You just can't expect it to tow like a diesel one ton when you buy a gas 1/2 ton. I probably pull 5 mph slower than I was comfortable in the 3/4 ton, but so what, I'm not pulling it everyday and need it to go go go. It will easily pull the speed limit and then some.

And yes I know that these people aren't pulling much and that's exactly the problem probably. These people want to pull a heavy trailer and drive like they are still in a camaro with nothing behind them because a lot of them don't realize what they are doing. Its stupid and not safe.

As to the wheel size, I didn't realize they were keeping the tires and overall circumference the same, but the weight difference can't be that drastic in a street application. Rotating weight takes up power, that's obvious to anyone who's done any racing, but the difference in street applications just isn't huge, on an extra inch of aluminum wheel what are you talking a pound or two maybe?

Bottom line, if you want to tow like you have nothing behind you, you need to buy a lot more vehicle than anybody on this board has mentioned having. We go out snowmobiling with one ton Super Duty chipped diesels. They are made to tow and they drive accordingly.

[Gus]

What about simply taking the truck out of Drive and into 3rd? Not to sound like an jerk, but I haul most things I need to in D with tow/haul on in my 5.3L 3.73'd silverado because I have enough umph to do so and keep the vehicle happy at hiway speeds. When I load up on occasion with a larger boat etc, I just drop it into 3rd and go. It gets me from about 2000 rpms at 70 to 2800 or so rpms. This gives PLENTY of extra power for hauling bigger loads that even using the tow/haul mode just can't quite handle when in D. It's an engine. It's meant to do a job. These motors can handle plenty of rpms when towing and probalby do better than lugging it in a lower gear. Fuel mileage doen't change a whole lot by going to 3rd over lugging it in D. The last trip I drove 400 miles loaded up in 3rd gear and I made 13mpg. When I tow my smaller boat with gear and am able to use D I usually still only get 14 maybe 14.5 mpg. Empty I can do 16mpg. I'm sure with 3.43's your rpms would even be lower than mine at 70 so you would probably get better milegage than my 13 and still have enough power. Why not try it?

These are just my experiences and something else to think about that I don't think I saw mentioned yet. The best part: It's Free to try! That's a lot of new gear you can buy over spending $$ on other improvements.

[tomfromblaine]

Thanks Gus, but thats what I already do, and your right at cruise speed in 3rd she's got enough to do the job, but I was looking for a little more when it comes to the bigger hills and a little extra "umph" to get it rollin', If I had a V-8 I wouldn't even have made a post but the Blazer only has a 4.3 V-6.

These threads git kind'a interesting don't they

[huntnfish]

Tom, when you do your mods, let me know what you find out. I have a Blazer with the 4.3 and would also like to get a little more out of it when pulling.

[tomfromblaine]

I will do that.

[hondavxr]

You guys have some great tips on this thread. I will give you guys some of my inputs. Don't waste your money on those chip modules, all of them do the same thing. The chips trick your stock computer in thinking that its at WOT (wide open throttle). This in turn, advances your timing, whichs makes your motor inject more fuel. It will feel a little stronger, because the chip has tricked your stock computer to think that there is more air coming in. So the stock computer has to inject more fuel, advance the timing, and everything thats involve at WOT. Put your money in bolt ons, the usual intake, header, and exhaust. There will probably be more hp's found in that formula. Other than that you could just supercharge or turbo it.

[Benny]

Powerstroke, your hp ratings are wrong on those two truck.

The 1999 F150's with the 5.4 were only rated at 230HP and 300lbs torque, the 2000's to 2004's were rated at 260hp and 300lbs torque.The 2005's are 300 hp with 325 torque.

The Chevys in 1998 with the 5.7 were 260 hp and 275 lbs torque, the 1999 to 2003's with the 5.3 were 285 hp and 300 lbs torque, the 2004 to 05's are rated at 295 hp and 325 torque.

Now I have a 2000 F150 with the 5.4, before I put in the Super chip and the Airraid air system the newer chevys could walk away from me by two lengths in a quarter mile run.

After the mods I can just barley pull away from them.

The older 5.7 chevys were not as fast as mine in stock trim either.

I came across a guy pulling a boat similur to mine (95 lund explorer 16 foot) one day on the way back from Canada, he had a newer chevy 5.3.

In a stop light to stop light battle the ford won hands down, on the freeway at 50 to 60 mph we were dead even till he hit his rev limiter.

My truck had the mods done by that time so I would guess the HP ratings were very close, but the Fords torque is higher with the chip.

My brother has a 1999 F150 with the 5.4 and it seems to have as much go as mine did at stock trim.

Another example of the differance between the same make and motors is this.

A friend at work has a 2000 F150 Super crew with the 5.4, we raced one day because he said his truck was getting beat by the older chevys.

I had not put my chip in yet but did have the K&N filter and Airraid system in.

So I believe I may have had 5 hp more than him per manufacture ratings.

I toasted him bad, just like the older chevys.

So there is a differance even between the same make and model trucks.It must be how that motor and drive train were put together.

Oh I forgot to say the gear ratio on mine is the typical 3.55/1.0 ratio and so was the SCrew.

The Ford motors are really restricted in the air flow, and the transmision presures are backed way off to save the trans.

The Superchip added more presure and changed the shift RPM point, added 10 mph to the revlimiter, and adjusted the fuel delivery and spark curve to optimize the Ford motor.

The airraid system opened the air passage and straightend out the rout to the throtle body to pump more air into the motor.

If the Chevys are suffering from to short a gear ratio, it can only be over come by changing up to the taller gears.

You can compansate to some degree by adding HP and Torque, but you still have a high gear ratio to contend with.

You should be able to change gears easly with a recalibration of the computor or a different drive gear on the transmision that transmitts the rpm to the computor.

Well I best get off the soap box and let some one else have it.

Benny