Feds vs Local Game Wardens

[koWALLEYEski]

I am not sure if we have any game wardens on this site. If there are I would like your thoughts about this thread. This past late season goose hunt, we were hunting over a private water hole. There were 6 of us hunting that afternoon. After we shot a few geese (we had 20 birds)we saw a truck parked on private property looking down on us across the lake. Me and a buddy drove over there to see who it was. Sure enough it was a couple of federal game wardens. They followed us back across private land and started going through our guns and blinds looking to pin us with something. They didnt find anything against the law. They had told us that we were called in for shooting too many birds. We told them the truth. The feds called all of us liars. That we were over our limit for the day and asked us where all the other birds were. Our guides(my buddies) told them they went with the other clients that he had with for the morning hunts. They then asked for names and addresses of the clients. They then asked the guides how many birds that they shot that morning. They stated that they shot after the clients had emptied their guns and they were unknown of how many birds they actually shot. Thing is they filled the bag limit with the clients. The feds then told the guides that they were not allowed to have any calls or guns along that afternoon since they had filled the bag limit that morning. Is this true? I still cant believe they called all of us liars and totally made us feel like we were disobeying the law. We know all the local wardens around the the area and we called one to come down and talk with the feds to tell him we were good sportsmen and such. The Feds then told us to get off the phone because nothing the local warden could say would make them believe us. I just think it was really rude of them to make us feel the way they did. They were violating our rights. Funny thing is we still had birds decoying as all of us stood on the ice out in the open. Anyone else have any thoughts or comments?

[brittman]

I have always found Federal wardens to be much more aggressive than state wardens. Seen this hold true in both MN and several other plains and southern states that I have hunted.

Generally speaking: Multiple times we have had Federal wardens drive right into the decoy spread while we were hunting and birds still flying. One time my dad, brother, and I had our limits of mallards, Canada geese. The warden searched gopher holes and rock piles for twenty – thirty minutes, but found nothing we were legit. It was obvious he had watched us all morning and was apparently counting the birds dropped. When he thought we were a couple birds over – he came out.

Another time a Federal warden asked us to remove every decoy bag from our truck and empty every bag so he could search for “over-limits”. My response was he may want to call for back-up because he would have to do that himself and he would have to return everything to the way he found it.

Now I also have to tell you that I have a couple friends that are/were US Federal wardens. They are often assigned to states where they did not grow up. They run into many individuals who push the limits of the law and often use local connections to avoid penalty. Baiting, over-limits, and other activities are not uncommon. These guys work hard for little reward other than protecting the resource.

State wardens tend to be less aggressive. I have never had a state warden stop me in the field. They tend to use “road blocks” to run through many more stops and catch the “big” violators rather than the smaller violations.

OK – with all that said. Technically speaking party hunting waterfowl is illegal. While many will agree it is hard to tell who shot what, that does not make it legal. Also if you give away your limit of birds that does not allow you to shoot more on that day.

No Calls? Find that one hard to believe. Calling birds for others is not illegal. In fact in Canada - the guide can not carry a gun.

[duckbill]

Even guides can only shoot 1 limit a day. I know that in a lot of cases that while the clients are missing the birds that the guides are knocking them out of the sky and I can speak on that with first hand experience. But as stated, technically party hunting is illegal and if one guy shoots his limit the law states that he should be done shooting.

The laws are there to protect the birds. I think that it is a good law too.

Duckbill

[lawdog]

The Feds are often jerks. Actually there are a couple different mindsets of people who do law enforcement and you'll see it in every agency. There are those who are of the protect and serve public service mindset and then there are those who are the bully, authoritative, out to find al the violations I can mindset. Any of you who know any number of cops will see both of those types if you look at em. Some jobs cater to the more aggressive type and I think that the Fed Game Warden job is one of them.

As to no guns/calls. I think they are probably right for guns as they had taken a limit (although only if they had a full daily limit of everything that was open for the season in the area). Calls, I really don't think so if they were guides. I don't know how/what licensing MN has for guides though, I've never looked at that. I suppose absent that, it would be the issue of hunting being defined as assisting someone too and they could be hunting after having taken a limit, although I don't think there is any law that says you can't put your gun away and stay in the blind and call and decoy birds after you've filled out either...

Regardless, I'd say the best strategy is just to do what the feds ask and that gets them out of there faster. I've had MN game wardens come into the field to check us before but not often, usually when in pits we had for goose hunting near a refuge but on private land. They didn't bother much and never did or would have found anything wrong. I've never had any run ins with the fed guys personally, but never heard anything good about them from anyone who has.

[Dave S]

I was checked by the Feds just south of Battle Lake one day. They hid behind a building as we pulled up in our boat and suddenly came out of no where once our feet hit land. They were straight to the point, asked how many birds we shot, checked our licenses, checked our shot, and questioned me about not having the state issued waterfowl stamp affixed to my license (which I bought the day before and had no time for it to be mailed out). These guys were cool over the whole situation.

When confronted by any warden, be it state or fed, the best thing to do is cooperate. They have a job to do, and when they receive reports of people shooting an over limit, they go out believing this to be true and will pressure to get more info. If you guys were legal, there's nothing to worry about.

[Sartell Angler]

I would have to say that your guide friends should have known that what went on that morning was along the lines of party hunting. This often presents a tough situation in waterfowling because discrepancies sometimes come about with regard to who shot what out of any given flock. I think we all know that the right thing for the guides to have done in this situation would be to count the birds that they believed they shot in their own daily bag limits.

If they would have done this, there is no way that the Feds would have implicated them.

It just goes to show you that someone could always be watching you, so if you wanna stay violation free you need to be careful to stay within the law.

SA/wdw

[Roosterslayer05]

This has nothing to do with hunting but i was reminded of a good co story i had this summer while fishing Mille Lacs. These 2 Co's were wathcing me and my buddy from a couple hundred yards for a good while. It was evning and in the middle of the summer. They pulled up to us and asked for our liscense's and while my friend was showing them his liscense my bobber went down. I told them i would show them my liscense after i caught this walleye. I pulled in a nice 17.5 inch walleye while the co's where pulled right next to us, we measured it and threw it in the livewell. They measured the other walleye we had and then searched our boat cause they though we were hiding something. They found nothing but they said we were the only people they checked that day with a walleye and had a good time watching me catch one.

[koWALLEYEski]

Well what I dont get is why would they open a special late season to get rid of the flocks of Canada Geese and then violate us like they did. We were legal. And we didnt get any fines.

[Nova]

KO, that's cool that you were legal and no fines. As long as we all stay legal we should have nothing to worry about. I think sometimes they are counting on a citation and when they can't find an issue they look even harder, then they get peeved. I was hunting with my little brother last year. I was having a horrible morning and could hit a bull in the butt with a scoop shovel full of rice. After a while I got warmed up and started hitting, but my little brother didn't. We eventually just gave up after noon. The warden stopped us on the way out and checked us very very very thoroughly. When he could not find a violation he started reaming us about our shooting skills. Got pretty carried away too, and it wasn't like we were leaving cripples all over, we just missed some easy shots. I got his badge number and wrote his boss a letter. Turns out the other warden with him also told his boss that he was being a jerk. I got a written apology. I just stood there and let him ream me and didn't say a thing...I think that made him even more mad.

[Sartell Angler]

man, talk about being unprofessional...who does he think he is ripping on you about your shooting...everyone has a bad day every now and then...if it would have been me, I would have told him to shut up and go find someone who is actually breaking the law. nice you got a written apology though.

SA/wdw

[koWALLEYEski]

Im glad you got an apology. It was totally unprofessional and uncalled for, but I guess he did have a TIP on us. Which was stupid. We later found out that the other guiding service across the lake are the ones who called us in. I think they shot 10 Geese compared to our full limit everyday.

[spearingboy]

koWALLEYEski are you sure they were feds? I don't know how to tell the difference? I'm glad I've never had an experience like that.

[beretta]

hey Ko, if the wardens had a tip call, they had a good reason to search you as well as they did. The tip line is there for a reason. Of course there are times when people get accused of things when they are innocent and stuff, but if the wardens dont take the tip line serious, whats the point? There have been many many big busts because of the tip line. By no means am I saying you are guilty of anything, but I am glad they searched you as well as they did, because then they are probably doing it to everyone that gets called in. plain and simple, they are doing their jobs. There are greedy and ignorant people out there that take advantage of our resources and the wardens are just protecting them for us. I dont know about you, but I would rather have to deal with a warden going through my stuff and not finding anything than never deal with a warden and have no laws enforced.

[Dave S]

the feds that checked us almost looked like FBI agents wearing dark blue. They also had bullet proof vests on. I believe most MN Conservation Officers wear the olive drab green.

[JerknPerchSD]

I had an incident with a warden in our early Sept. goose season. We had recieved 6 inches of rain in 3 days so the ground was very soggy. The farmer gave us permission to hunt as long as we didn't drive on the field. (didn' want giant ruts) We got there extra early to walk out over 150 full bodies, blinds, ect. About 10 am I hear a vehicle comming across the field, shure enough its a warden. He checked our licenses, shells, plugs, ect. and then I told him this farmer didn't want anyone driving on the land after all the rain. He shrugged it off and said it was his job and that he didn't have to obey any farmers requests. His pickup had to be in 4x4 to get in and out of the field and left 10-12" deep tire ruts 1/4 mile out and back. Later on I had to spend 20 min explaining to the farmer that it wasn't us that drove out, but that a warden had done it...That is one farmer who is no longer happy with the SD GF&P

[koWALLEYEski]

I know the tip is a very successful program to catch unlawful hunters. But we know who called us in. It was the guide hunting on the opposite side of the lake we were on. They obvisouly watched us shoot our limit and was just so frstraed that he wanted to get us in trouble. Late season goose is a "real" blood sport where we hunt. PPL will do anything to get someone in trouble it seems like.

[beretta]

Ko, I am confused as to what it is that your complaining about. Even if you know who called you in, that doesnt matter. What would you say if someone shot a record book buck over a corn pile with a spot light and he said "no, I didnt do it and the people that turned me in are just frustrated and they are trying to get me in trouble so just let me go." Wardens cant disregard a tip call just because the person they are investigating says that the person that called in is frustrated. Once again I am not accusing you of anything. I am trying to prove a point and give you my thoughts like you asked for in your original post.

Quote:

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They then asked the guides how many birds that they shot that morning. They stated that they shot after the clients had emptied their guns and they were unknown of how many birds they actually shot

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You know you have no reason to be complaining. According to your story, your "buddies" were party hunting. Party hunting for waterfowl is illegal in the great state of Minnesota. An ethical sportsman knows which birds he shoots.

[brittman]

Look an the emblems on the uniform. USF&WS vs MN DNR. Easy to tell the difference.

[Gissert]

I've been checked by Federal wardens a couple of times. They identified themselves as Federal wardens right up front. They were professional, efficient, and very pleasant. They looked at the birds, our ammo, and our guns, and went on their way.

[Eric Wettschreck]

I have never once in my life been checked by a fed warden. Now that I think of it, I've only been checked, while hunting, by a MN CO a couple of times.

[island guy]

I've been checked by fed and state wardens. Found them to be professional and friendly. I'm glad they are out and about. Obeying laws takes away any fear of being checked. A prior post mentioned the Dec goose hunt. I've seen too many posts with people bragging about the number of geese shot. Harvesting geese is a great thrill but only part of a hunt. We've watched the same party of slob hunters fill out day after day near where we hunt. They either eat a lot of geese or are unaware of possession limits. The same party sky blasts at geese they have no business shooting at, wounding many that glide away long distances never to be found. It speaks volumes of a person when their posts are always about "numbers" of game killed. As I've aged I guess my values have changed. Many hunts this year I've just laid in the field after our party shot a goose or two and just enjoyed the sight of decoying geese. Before I get bashed, I have no problem at all with ethical hunters taking their limit within the law.

[Redwalleye]

KC Walski I gotta Get a hold of you and get my coat n' tip back some barely soda

Later

[koWALLEYEski]

Red since when did you become a memeber of this. I was going to get a hold of you sometime to get your jacket but I guess we have both been busy

[lawdog]

boilerguy...head about 15-20 minutes east of your place and hunt for a while. They are thick over there, we used to get checked all the time around Talcot...

I've been checked I think four times outside of there and probably 6 or 7 times there when it used to be real good and we went there a lot...

Never by Feds and never had any problems with any except one guy that they brought in for deer opener from a desk job I think. He didn't know his head from his hind part and tried to tell us we were illegal until we made him contact another CO who knew what he was talking about and he told them we were just fine as we knew we were as we'd already asked him about what we were doing before we started and he'd OK'ed it.

[Redwalleye]

Kowalleyeski was looking for Lake of the woods info and thought this was pretty neat gimme a call and I meant Barley sodas later RED