TRAPPING

[fishermann222]

I have not heard anything about that caliber yet. I bought the .223 so that I would have a weapon big enough for wolves as well. Up here there are quite a few people who hunt them and I want to get into that. I was hoping to get a caliber that would work well on both.

If anything I would want to slow down the bullet so that it does not blow through the backside of the animal and take 8 chunks of bones with it. A guy I know uses a 22-250 and slows it down some and his fox are not nearly as bad. Has anyone experimented with reloading a slower shell for the .223?

[The Grebe]

Whoops, I meant .223 sorry, hell, I had a friend that killed a big old Moose with a .243...certainly not reccommended, but he did it. A fox would'nt look to good getting nuked with a .243.

[Jackpine Rob]

I shoot a .17 Rem for coyotes and fox, and it is extremely fur-friendly. Most of the time you get the little pin-hole entrance wound, and no exit. In pass-through situations, you have usually snuck in between the ribs and not hit heart or any other more solid object. Exit hole in those is not much larger.

Had one coyote get up and run on me last year - 289 yards (lasered) - never did find him. I could see the blood on his shoulder, and didn't put a second round into him (big mistake) after the first shot knocked him down, and he was flopping around. When he took off running, I just plain muffed my one chance before he disappeared. That first shot must have hit the shoulder blade funny.

Other than that, hit them in the boiler room and they just pitch over. Other than the one noted above, they pretty much died in their tracks.

The .17, even with the factory 25 gr. HP bullets, is screaming downrange right around 4000 fps. Flat as a pancake out to 300 yards. I think the wind factor has been blown out of proportion - I hunt the prairies and that little bullet seems to do quite well in even a stiff cross-wind at reasonable distances (less than 200 yards). I'm no ballistics expert, but perhaps the narrower profile and high speed of the bullet contribute to better wind performance than you might expect.

The .204 looks pretty nifty, but the one issue I have is the current factory loadings, which are plastic-tipped bullets. Had some real bad experiences with small plastic-tipped bullets at high velocity out of a buddies gun. He had loaded up some 'hot' .223 rounds, and they basically exploded on contact, not penetrating enough to kill a coyote, but making a heck of a noise on impact! Beware of plastic tips and high velocity. The .204 looks like it may take off, and hopefully some loadings more suited to the requirements of fur hunters will be developed. Until then, I will stick with my .17.

[hookset]

sorry fishermann22 i had .com instead of .net

please try again

joe

[The Grebe]

I tried to bump this one back up this morning, but it did'nt work for me? Worked for me the last time?

You know the old saying, "Out of sight, out of mind!" I for one would still like to hear how you active trappers are doing. Seasons are still in full swing and there are tales to be told once everything quiets down...probably after the first prolonged freeze, or lasting snow.

I will bet you anything that when it comes time to sell, one of the buyer lines will be, "We had such nice weather, the harvest was so big, the price of the raw furs went down."

It might be true, but if it was'nt that, it would be something else!

At any rate, are there any fox out there in numbers? Have you figured out how to trap around the skunks, Possums and Raccoon, to get to the fox?

[protrapper]

100 some coon, few rats, lots of mink, few red fox, lots of beaver. Can't wait to hit the cats, marten and fisher hard this Saturday. Sold some fur to pay some bills and thought the prices where ok. Fox are down this year, but aint many around. Coon you get more money for the bigger size. Bigger the better. Mink on the up swing. Rats worthless. Marten, fisher and cat prices will advance. Beaver are going ok also. Winter blankets of course will bring most money.

Good Luck...

[The Grebe]

You do any head bumping with Bob Gilsvik, I think that is how his name is spelled?

I see a fox from time to time down here, while I'am going to, or comming from fishing, but they all seem to have mange. The only good ones I have seen have been transition fox that have been killed by vehicles!

It is good to hear that something is worth something! I was a little surprised when you said rats were'nt worth much? Seems they were always worth trapping, if for nothing else, because I liked to trap them! Fun to trap, easy to skin, easy to put up! Oh, oh, truck is back, gotta go!

Although I'am not trapping anymore, I still subscribe to FFG, the only outdoor magazine I get, but I hav'nt checked the price section, it is pretty much always the same, in my opinion! Even when I was trapping, I did'nt pay alot of attention to it, as it really did'nt tell me a whole lot, once it got down to the nuts and bolts of the transactions.

[M.T. Bucket]

Grebe,

Just saw your old post back a ways and caught a question...

Yeah, I've seen possums here in the Grand Rapids area.

[The Grebe]

Our climate is definately changing, or the fauna is adapting to new habitat! Global warming or not, climate changes and shifting of species always occurs over milleniums.

Did you know that at one time Minnesota was tropical? I have proof, at least southern Minnesota was tropical at one time.

When I was a kid, from about 12 years old on, off and on into my 20's, I worked in the stone quarries of southern Minnesota, loading and hauling limestone, for retaining wall building. We hauled out of Cannon Falls, Owattona, and afew othe quarries in the area.

In the layers of limestone, there were fossils of palm trees, huge ferns and other warm climate fauna and flora.

Just think, first the Possum moves north, then the gators, then all the retirees in Florida and we will be able to enjoy trapping under the palms!

Hey, thanks for letting me know...I'm just curious about things in general.

[fishermann222]

You are right the climate is changing. I am live in Alaska out on the Tundra. We froze up in October and were able to get on snowmobiles but now the rivers are opening up and the temps are in the 30's almost every day. it is TERRIBLE

[DanS]

Its been a nice fall for trapping with the moderate temps and lack of ice to deal with. Its the second yr out for my kids (8,10 yr old) and both can skin and flesh muskrats now. We pretty much stuck to a water line and have had a nice mixed catch. We had one blind set that connected almost every night for 2 weeks. We caught muskrat, mink, raccoon and even 2 beaver in this set with no bait or lure used. You can bet I'll have a 1 1/2 coil gaurding that location for many trapping seasons to come. It looks like we might get enough ice to start setting up some beaver ponds by the weekend so were looking forward to that.

Possum in the Grand Rapids area! I knew they were heading north but had no idea they were up here already. I've had my first red bellied woodpecker in my feeder all fall and according to the range maps they should'nt be this far north. Might be another sign of climate change or could just be a lost bird.

[The Grebe]

Don't ya just love them blind sets! When you can figure out the exact spot where your target is going to place a foot, or stick it's head into, is way cool!

I had a spot on the river one season when my nephew and I were trapping spring Beaver....I set a #3 coil where they were comming out, nothing else, that set nailed me a beaver just about every time I checked it! The catch would slide down the wire and new commers would keep the haul out active.

I have caught just about everything in a blind set...I even caught a Red Fox in a blind coon set, in a couple inches of water...first and only time.

Hey, good luck with the trapping, keep us posted!

[Ely Lake Expert]

Could someone tell me if it is legal to shoot beavers? I have never done it before, but they are making a mess out on my hunting land and I want to get rid of a bunch.

Thanks for any info,

Ryan

[Stiff]

Fisherman222,

You had asked about how to keep fox away from your otter. My suggestion is that wherever you think this is a real risk, follow up in the location with a couple of fox sets.

My firt choice would be an unmarked, unscented set made on a smal rise somewhere between 5-30 feet of your otter set. Down here a larger gopher pile is just about right... up there you will just have to make due with whatever you have available. The fox will come to the site, but before making a move on the otter he will try to survey the situation and he'll do that by going to the highest point immediately available to overlook the situation. You may turn a potential loss into a bonus pelt.

If no high spot is available, I'd just make a flat set or some other non descript set within 30 feet. When he gets there he'll poke around a little before he moves in on the otter.

Good Luck! I'd be very curious to know if this approach works. I don't look in on this forum very much, but I'll make a point to tune back again just to see if you have any luck.

[email protected]

[protrapper]

You can shoot them but that would be a waste. Ask a warden for some local trappers in that area. They would be more than happy to help you out.

If you start shooting at them and miss, you will only educate them. And smart beavers can cause you real problems.

Wardens have a list of trappers who do damage work for all areas of the state.

[abens1078]

I have a trapping ethics question and wanted to tack it into this thread as there are many trappers looking into it.

Last Sunday I was home to visit the folks in northwest Iowa and I decided to go for a drive and see if there were any deer around. I drove through one of our grain fields by a wooded area and noticed what I thought to be a small dog. Long story short I had come across a coyote set with a live animal in a foothold. I found him at 3:00 in the afternoon and the set was torn up from the animal doing alot of digging at that point.

I returned at 9pm and the animal was still alive in the trap so I shot him and then got the name off the tag. The guy had permission from my uncle to trap the property so it was no big deal but he didn't remove the animal until late Wednesday. Based on how much digging had been done, It's my oppnion that the animal was in the trap well before I found it. Iowa has a 24hr. law for checking traps and this animal was in the trap dead for 3 days.

My question is how you guys handle these situations. I have no proof now that the animal is out of the trap and the set has been pulled. Your thoughts are appreciated.

I am not against trapping by any means but I am against laziness and disrespect that would cause an animal to die slowly. That's what mother nature is for, trappers and hunters are supposed to be more efficient.

[The Grebe]

The assumption that the critter had been in the trap over the alloted time is speculation, a hind foot catch can really create alot of digging in short order, as can front foot catch, with a very agressive animal.

Alot of times, the traps are set by long liners, just the fact that the trapper caught the Coyote at all, leads me to believe he knows what he is doing.

Sometimes the long liners, having traps to tend over a line that may extend over 100 miles, will check the sets with binoculars and if it looks okay, they move on to the next set, so as to save time and to not disturb the area anymore then neccessary.

There are alot of factors that could come into play here, maybe the trapper got sick, maybe a vehicle problem, or some other kind of personal problem that kept him away?

Maybe he was'nt kept away, he may have checked that set and it was empty, an hour before you got there, a fresh Coyote will do most of it's digging after it is first caught?

Maybe upon his return, he seen no telltale movement at the set and went on down the road? Lots of senarios.

The Coyote was'nt going to die a "Lingering death" the area below the jaws becomes numb and after a time time critter accepts that it cannot escape and settles down...they don't have unlimited energy whereby they continue to struggle until they die!

Think about this...not everyone has the know how to trap a Coyote, they are slick and are'nt taken accidently,

especially this late in the season when they have seen just about every kind of set and smelled every kind of smell, you have to know what you are doing.

You have put in the time to attained the know how, bought the lic., acquired the gear, were responsible enough and took the time to gain landowner permission, you have taken the time required to scout the area where you are going to make the set, went through the setting process, invested the money in the gas at $1.89 per gallon to get you there and back and then not reap the fruits of your labor? That does'nt make alot of sense?

Nah, there is more to this....for one thing, your thinking that it was a little dog, instead of a Coyote, leads me to believe that you are not knowledgable on trapping, therefore you would'nt be able to make a sound judgement on how long the critter had been there.

You said you shot him at 9:00 p.m. Are you allowed to shoot stuff in Iowa after dark, if you are'nt prdator hunting, even if it is on family land?

In one sentence you said the guy removed the Coyote Wed. night and a little further down you say you don't have proof that the Coyote is'nt still in the trap and the trap pulled?

You said he removed it, so how can it still be in there? And if your uncle gave him permission to trap and did'nt recind it someway, why should he pull the trap?

And on the laziness thing, you follow an average trapper around his line for one day, into the fur shed at night, back out before light in the morning and I can guarentee you that your a$$ will be making drag marks in the dirt! They do this regimen day after day, for however long their season lasts.

Trapping is not for the lazy person, that is for sure, not mentally, or physically! Having been there and done that, thats my take.

[Ely Lake Expert]

Quote:

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You can shoot them but that would be a waste. Ask a warden for some local trappers in that area. They would be more than happy to help you out.

If you start shooting at them and miss, you will only educate them. And smart beavers can cause you real problems.

Wardens have a list of trappers who do damage work for all areas of the state.

---

Protrapper,

I actually know a couple of trappers, but the only reason I don't call them to do it is the fact that I am out there all the time and I like to let my 3 dogs run free on my land. They like to swim in the river and I am scared of them getting in the traps.

I don't plan on wasting them either. I will give the pelts away to who ever wants them.

As far as missing and educating them is concerned, I don't plan on missing. I am gonna get small crew of people who shoot all the time.

I just can't think of any better way to get rid of them. Someone suggested dynamite, but I don't think I will go that far.

Ryan

[abens1078]

Greeb,

Just a few things before you get the wrong picture on me that I should have clarified through sentence structure.

1. I brought my dad out to the set and had him drive by and check it each day after I shot the animal. On wednsday the animal was there at noon but it was gone when I went out and looked at 8:30pm. I drove right to the area and saw the steak hole. I can't call a CO because I am unsure how to prove wrong doing without a stiff rotting critter as proof.

2. I respect your thoughts about the trappers ability but I mentioned the amount of digging that had been done to indicate that the site was disturbed and even the worst binoculars should have picked that up. the set was in an untilled bean field after the coyote was in there there was 4' circle of black dirt...it was distrubed man. I have friend who runs a long line each year and I have gotten to check it a few times and I've watched him use binoculars to do the checking.

3. as far as recognizing a coyote, I came over the hill a good 200yrds away and the 'dog' laid down to try and hide so I picked up my binoculars and discovered for certain what it was and why it was there. that's why I said long story short.

4. The 'trapper' in question has bragged about taking shots at running deer with a bow and has a beer belly so big he doesn't own chest waders. He is not like you or the trappers reading this thread who go all out and work hard. In a post above I mentioned I had my own muskrat line at 9 yrs. old I was not a successful trapper by today's standards but I knew where to put the corn cob so he would step in there. So you are right, I'm not going to act like an authority and I don't know that much but I sure enjoy talking about it and learning.

5. I know he would settle down. The trap had the thickened/lamminated jaws and I know his foot wasn't being crushed and shattered but I don't think anyone was going to bring it food and water. I've read some of your other posts Mr. Grebe and I know you like to have a sandwhich now and again and you even wash it down from time to time. When did you last go 3 days with nothing. My feeling is that PETA has done enough to help fur prices go down. Storries of unethical trappers will not help the sport of trapping where 99% of those who participate look to prove themselves better and more humane in any way possible.

In short, I think this trapper is below the caliber of individual who reads this site and is not going to give other trappers a good name if he continues like this. The coyote weighed 20lbs tops so I think he got lucky more than anything and caught a yearling. I don't care what time it is I'll shoot an animal in a trap before his throat gets numb. I don't have a soft spot for anything caught in a trap. I see it as a game of wits, smarts and strategy but even boxers shake hands after a battle to show their respect for the opponent. I didn't see any respect in this case and I wanted to know how you skilled and careful trappers react to someone who gives your sport a bad name when you have no proof.

Greeb, I meant no offense in any of these remarks and I was kind of hoping you would respond to my post with some helpful advice rather than question my knowledge of trapping. There was a dead animal in a trap for three days and that's illegal and it's not good for the fur(hard to sell when the crows pick at them). He went through all the work that you mentioned, caught one and then left it. When I got sick my Dad checked my 15 sets to make sure we didn't do something like this. If he couldn't make it out for 3 days shouldn't he have called someone? Maybe my dad or my uncle to tell them he had sets on our property that he couldn't check. He has the phone number, that's how he got permission. If I was home I would gladly check the set for him from as far way as he wanted me to stay and so would my Dad. We don't want those coyotes around our new calves next spring but we don't want people coming on our ground and leaving live animals in traps for all the rest of the world to stumble on.

[The Grebe]

Sounds like you are pretty committed, thats good, if you know who this guy is, maybe you should have given him a call and tell him to get his a$$ in gear!

If someone was doing something on my family land that I found distasteful, I would sure let them know about it!

I ran a trapline each and every fall for over 20 years and I never ran into into any lazy trappers...if you are lazy, you don't catch anything and a lazy person does'nt work long at that!

I did run into afew law breakers and afew whose ethics were questionable, but in the writing of this thing, some things don't make sense to me...if you checked the tag, the critter had to be dead? If the guy was using wide jawed traps, one would think he had concern for the trapped critter.

Lots of things, I'm not trying to get in your face about it, just responding to what I see writen, like I said that was my take on it! Have a goodun.

[abens1078]

I thought more about what you said Grebe and I think I will check with some other trappers in the area and see if they have seen him do this before. I will also stop and visit the place where most of the guys sell fur and buy supplies. His stakes are made in bulk by the guy that owns the local trading post. If he hears someone is checking on him he will probaly get in gear and the problem will be solved.

I had the noose tied and the tree picked out when I should have been looking for more information. If he is a habitual slob we or others will catch him in the act again. I know I've been given more than my fair share of 2nd chances in life. I was bent out out of shape on Friday as I wasn't able to chase phesants because I had to work. Sometimes I find the 'real world' completely unacceptable to my liking. Here's to cooler heads prevailing, thanks

Abens1078