Permanent Deer Stands

[eyecrosser2000]

I know this topic has been discussed before, but given the possibiliy of legislation this year: What are the opinions of REAL deer hunters on whether or not to ban permanent deer stands on all state land?

[irvingdog]

I don't like the idea of erecting private structures on public land. Where is the line drawn? Portables are cheap, comfortable, safe and gone by the end of the season. Yeah, you can make the handicap or elderly argument with me, but then, do we build ramps through every duck marsh so that wheelchair bound folks can hunt waterfowl?

I'm a "real" deer hunter. Bow, Muzzleloader, rifle, camera........

[PerchJerker]

I say "ban 'em". In my experience most of the permanents that get built on public land are big and junky-looking and only get used for a year or two before they get abandoned. Also, it seems like they usually get built 30 yards away from private land. Just my $.02.

[Mark Christianson]

Ban 'em
Public land is for the "public".
Not for one person to build a big eyesore in the woods.

[uffdapete]

I don't like the idea of building permanent stands on public land. If I was a landowner I wouldn't allow it on my own land. With that said, I can't say I've ever felt comfortable or safe in any portable, but haven't tried a ladder stand yet. I don't like heights and that probably is a big factor, but I have been in some permanents others have built that I was okay with. What a dilemma!! My solution - I play the wind and stay on the ground. That admittedly has it's limits. I did hunt from a stand built of logs one time that was pretty cool. Somebody put a lot of work in that and it didn't seem nearly as out of place as boards and/or plywood.

[Ruttin' Buck]

I have to say, I've built a ton of perms in my day. To most hunters ours go unnoticed as we generally use pines for their climability and cover. We will continue to build them as long as we are allowed. Many people just don't hunt the areas we do. Many people like to look out a half mile, not us, our shots are usually under 40 yards. Many people don't go into these areas, therefore I think we go unnoticed as do our stands.

I personally use a huge comfortable portable I welded up as I don't care to have every Tom, Dick and Harry that strolls through the woods see it, climb into it, smoke a few cigs, relieve himself, and leave his armpit stench out of there when I'm not in it. I carry it out a half mile 2 weeks before the opener (public land but not state land). Only 2 people have walked by me in 6 years in this spot. I usually hunt the area for 70-80 hours per rifle season and the 2 guys...never noticed me despite my blaze orange. As far as theft...even if most guys saw it, they wouldn't climb up to my 20' level, more less carry that piece of miserable iron and lumber out of the woods!
I take it down the last day of the rifle season...with a teardrop in my eye of course.

[protrapper]

This issue has been beaten to death. There is so many in the woods up here, there is no way the law could ever be enforced. We have had some in our family for over 30 years. Other people use stands up here locals and out of town folks and theres never a prob. Plenty of land and stands for everyone. In fact I feel safer in my permanets than the portables I own.

Just because you hunt from a permanent dosent mean your not a real hunter. Seems to me most folks think you have to own all the fancy gadgets to be a real hunter. Permanent stands are tradition up here and will be forever.

[shadyzr]

I came across this one spot I've been hunting for 19 years now. It's on county land that can never be sold, because of a small river running through it. I hunted the same spot for 8 years in a portable, then when I got sick of freezing to death and half drowned from rain, I built a perm. It's 16ft. from ground to the floor. It has vinyl siding inlight gray, and shingles on a 4-12 pitch roof. Windows are from an older mobil home, the front has a 3 pain crank-out, and the 2 sides have 2 pain crank-outs. Keep them oiled good so they're quiet. carpet and a swivel boat seat. It's not a castle either. 5 1/2ft. tall, 4ft. X 4ft. Small LP heater that you can cook on, and hunt in a shirt. It's not an EYESORE. There is an one-who-thinks-I-am-silly that put a portable-perm. homemade stand,(box type) about 50 yds. from me 3 years ago. Come's out at sun up, Leave's at 10:00am come's out at 2:00pm stays till just before sundown and leaves. All because he's cold, he ruin's alot of hunting day's for me. As for you guy's that are against perm's, I have designed a system for the continuing legal platform. 4 walls aluminum and roof, and windows. It can be assembled on the platform with 8 wingnuts. And taken down in 10 minutes so it's classified as port. Just in case a law passes. So ha ha. Ta DA!!! PERMS FOREVER!!

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"THE LANDING STRIP"

[RiverKarhu]

I dunno what makes you a real deer hunter, but I think banning permanent stands is like trying to kill an ant with a sledge hammer. The problem just isn't that bad, at least here in the north-of-hwy-2 country.
I've been hunting in permanents for many years in MN. I moved out of state to Michigan for a few years and had to hunt on the ground there. Not much fun, not good.
Permanents don't have to be eyesores - the present law I believe bans having a roof and sides. That should be enough. For those of us that like to sit all day, a portable is not comfortable, not warm, and just too darn small.
Permanents are better in all those respects, and I believe they actually reduce the number of hunter conflicts. If you are out scouting and find fresh stands, you know someone is hunting there. I think most courteous hunters would move on. If everyone has portables, then it becomes a race to see who can get to there first. Would you set a time limit - say 5am - to when you can set up your stand?
Besides the above, my father is getting a bit older (I noticed the other day). Asking him to tote a portable out and set it up in the dark, then clamber into it seems a bit much. He can't sit long without a heater, and he likes to hunt with his grandkids. Tough to do in a portable.
If you have a problem with permanents, then hunt private land or the WMAs. Also, enforcement of this law would be very impractical if not impossible in many areas.

later

River

[eyecrosser2000]

Since I started this topic (at least on this post) I don't want to offend anyone--what I mean by "real" deer hunters are those who are hunting (by whichever means they choose and love) in the woods--not those down in St Paul who will be voting to dictate how we hunt.

[BLACKJACK]

I say ban permanents for three reasons:

1) the minute you put up permanent stands you 'claim' that piece of PUBLIC land as your spot. Thats not right. Its public land that all should be allowed to hunt on first come first serve basis. I had the experience several years back where I scouted out a funnel, showed up early with my chair, then some yo-yo came along and climbed up in a permanent stand that he had built three days before less than 50 yards away. When I confronted him, saying I was their first, he said he was staying in his permanent stand 'because he couldn't move it'.

2) they're eyesores. Maybe not the first several years, but after they've been there a while, pieces get replaced, and the old pieces just tossed, or when they're eventually abandoned, how many are hauled out of the woods? zip - they get left to be an eyesore.

3) they promote indiscriminate 4-wheeler use by people hauling in materials and/or going to their stands. Pretty soon other 4-wheelers see those trails, start following them, then start blazing more trails when they hit the end.

The argument that portable stands are uncomfortable is bull. Nowadays there are ladder stands that you can put tents around - with your heater in it if necessary. And the idea that its 'tradition' is also bull. Taking home every fish you caught to eat used to be traditional too until catch and release came along. Ban permanent stands!

[shadyzr]

Number 1: I bet you live in the cities black!!! Some people come across a great looking hunting spot. That just happen's to have a perm. stand, in other word's it means that someone else already found this great spot, and you would like an equal chance at this spot. It's kind of like being jelous of someone already getting a good spot. As for eye sore's, pass a law that all who build perm's have to put a sign on them. Like on fish house's. Drivers license#'s etc. So if they leave trash in the woods they get fined, Problem solved!! As for The 4 wheeler tracks, That's already happening. The law states: Only pre- exhisting trail riding, no breaking new trail's. This dose'nt always happen around deer stand.Let the DNR do there job's and arrest the law breakers. Do your part, tell the one's you see about braking the law. Take a plate number down, turn them in.. I'm doing my part, I HAVE TO TAKE A BOAT DOWN A SMALL RIVER 2 miles to get to my perm. stand. No 4 wheeler track's.If you want to hunt from a port. stand go ahead.Just don't push your agenda off on us!! Sounds like jelousy to me.

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"THE LANDING STRIP"

[BLACKJACK]

From Websters dictionary, the first two defintitions of PUBLIC 1)affecting the community as a whole 2) for the use of all, as in public telephone.

What don't people understand about 'for the use of all'? When you put up a permament stand, you're claiming that spot of PUBLIC hunting ground as your very own. For how long, til you die? Or til you pass it onto your kid? Maybe the DNR should start selling hunting rights to 1/4 sections of PUBLIC hunting land? Not!

shadyzr, no I don't live in the Cities. I hunt on both private and public land. A lot of the public land is WPA's that outlaw permanent deer stands. If you want a prime spot, you get there early. Lots of deer are shot off of WPA's. Just because you happened to find a 'great spot' years ago, what gives you the right to hold down that spot forever? What if I happen to do some scouting and look at aerial photos and find that 'great spot'? Since its on public land, I have just as much right to hunt that land. But the squatters that build permanent stands think that they own that piece of public land - and would raise a ruckus on opening morning if they found someone else hunting on 'their' spot. Most hunters know that and will move on to another spot to avoid ruining their opening morning - and thats what the squatters count on.

What its going to take is the DNR ripping down every permanent stand they find on PUBLIC land and then ticketing any one that they find in one.

[Fisher Dave]

(2) For the use of ALL.

If we are abiding by the laws building and using permanent stands on public lands ... we have that right .. as you have the right not to like the look of a stand in the woods in a spot you hope to jump on 1st. I dont mind at all if you dont like what my stand looks like as long as it keeps me in the air. I dont care if anyone likes the sound of my 4 wheeler during legal riding hours in the rifle season... I have these rights, and I will exercise them if I desire... If your polite, and I pass you on a trail coming out, I may drag your deer out for you.

Permanent stands on public land are not owned by any individual .. even the person who constructed it. If there is a stand in an area you wish to hunt, and nobody is in it.. you have every right to hunt out of that stand. Obviously, we all have to act within reason and be courtious, and safety kept in mind .. but if it hasnt been being used .. use it. Overcrowding is more of a problem than permanent tree stands.. if you dont like so many hunters to compete with, do some research and find land that is not heavily hunted... theres a lot more than you think.

Land is going for an average of $1000/acre.. if you dont want anyone besides yourself to have rights .. buy up some land, tear any existing stand down, hang signs all over to keep everyone else out .. and have fun at 5am hanging your portable.. with any luck you didnt scare away every deer in 2 miles.

I believe any portable stand left up a tree on public land is considered a permanent stand.. or in other words ... could be used by anyone, or worse yet removed.

We would have half as many hunters harvested every year as deer when people go out to their stand and find someone sitting in, or carrying out there $250 tree-lounge... of course, then you would have to blame it on us ATV'ers because we are the most mobile... cant blame it on yourself.

Leave our rights alone. If it makes you feel more like a true hunter .. stand on a tree branch with a spear and wait for a deer to pass under and jump on it ... thats your perogative(sp?). Because our way of hunting within the laws doesnt suit your desires, it doesnt mean its wrong, it just means you dont agree.. but that in itself, does not give you the right to try to take other's rights away.

(2) For use of ALL ... states clearly, we have as much right to be there as you do.

This post is not a direct attack toward any individual. Please dont take it as that.

[protrapper]

There is not enough DNR staff to rip stands down. Budget cuts sound familiar. And then the co's have to enforce such a rediculous rule. Thats good put more burden on them as if they dont have enough complaints and laws to enforce. Not to mention there under staffed as is. Even the MN Deer Hunters Assoc. favors not banning permanent stands.

I dont know where the fact that you are claiming the spot is yours is coming from??!! I have sat in other peoples stands and vice a versa and never has been a issue. Like I said before it will never happen there is no way to enforce the rule.

[fivebucks]

I hunt from both permanent and portables and I like both. If I want to be mobile and adjust to the season as it goes along I have my climber that I can move around with. That being said, I enjoy having perm. up around the woods. The area we hunt has pretty much the same groups of people hunting areas. We know where they hunt and let them hunt there and they know which areas we are hunting. Does putting up a permanent claim an area? In a way it does and I happy with that. I put alot of time in scouting year round and when I find that sweet spot or two and I know no one else calls it there regular spot I'll put a permanent up if it works there. Climbing up a permanent is alot quieter than hanging a portable anyhow. Yea it's state land and there for everyone to use but there are thousand of acres out there that you can put your time in and find your own little area. If you have good ethical hunters around they will not set up too close to you. I don't know how many times I came across a nice area and after a bit of scouting located someones stand. All I can say then is Darn! or something like that and scout another area. I would be P.O.ed if I came out on opener to find someone else in the area I planned on opening up and have for years. It comes down to being decent to your fellow hunter. Sorry I rambled but I hope they do not ban all permanents.

[eyecrosser2000]

It is great to see people who are passionate about deer hunting. One thing I think is important is that while we (us deer hunters)may differ in our methods and opinions--we still are deer hunters. We have more in common than shoppers at the mall or drivers on the road. We need to be careful that our differences don't destroy us. I worry that we can "legislate" ourselves out of the thing we love the most: being out in the woods hunting deer with our buddies and families. If we outlaw permanent stands we eliminate a number of hunters from a population that isn't growing in the first place. Less hunters may sound like a good deal--especially on opening morning, but it also means fewer license fees and political votes. I remember a huge debate waged in the Deer & Deer Hunting magazine a few years back over the use of crossbows. We see it now over baiting. I'm not saying we shouldn't carefully analyze our sport. I'm just saying that if we legislate hunting down to only the way I care to hunt--I may be the only one left to carry on the tradition. I don't know if I'm ready to carry that load right now.

[Mark Christianson]

We can twist this a lot of ways. No question.
If we don't think about legislation, we also risk the fact that the population grows, and people also start using the state forest areas more, and in turn start seeing the remnants of permanent tree stands from years gone past. Non-hunters are not going to appreciate the "litter" left behind by "slobs". Thats what some think, like it or not.

I am the last person in this state that wants to lose any priviledges(or rights) that we have left as hunters/fisherman.

But, we do need to police ourselves and be congnizant of what we do, and what we leave behind after we go out to enjoy what we love to do. By no means is permanent stands going to be the "end all" of hunting.

I am sure there are far worse things out there, no doubt, but be aware, we need to watch our a$$es, in order for us to continue do some of the things we love to do.
I personally won't lose any sleep over the permanent stands, and if they are lost or kept.

[Lunker]

I say ban them on state land.I hunt from permanents myself, although they aren't on state lands, but I hunt a lot of state land too although not much for deer. I know that many people build them responisbly, but there are a lot of guys who end up leaving a lot of garbage up in the trees(carpeting, shingles,garbage,barrels, etc.). Although I also don't believe that there is enough enforcement to do this, I think ethical hunters will, and I have no problem tearing down stands I find out on state lands if they are illegal. Where I hunt there are a ton of perms near our land, and there is always stupid competition between guys using other peoples stands, or finding that theirs is gone and proceeding to stumble around the woods or attempting to hunt out of ours or other peoples. It is much easier to have them be prepared to hunt out of a portable so they don't create the trouble. For state public lands, it should be public, building a stand is private building and not really no good for anything.

[Fisher Dave]

To me, litter, and Permanent tree stands do not fall in the same category. There are slobs all over the place .. on the lakes, in the woods, in our neighborhoods .. everywhere. I dont see the connection to permanent tree stand hunters.

Whats next? Do I need to put a fresh paint job on my house because its getting shot to eliminate the possibility of anyone seeing an *eye-sore* in their standards on the way to the woods?

Next?

How about outlawing permanent fish houses?.. especially on lake Minnetonka, they ruin the view of the home owners.
Or maybe rusty vehicles? Victorian houses? Trailer homes. Lets fine the railroad company for having railway cars with grafitti on them... its not *pleasent* to look at... come to think of it, the tracks are unsightly too. Snowmobiles have to go.. too loud.

I feel like throwing a 50" muskie fillet on the BBQ and building a 1/2 dozen permanents to fill out the weekend.

[BLACKJACK]

EYECROSSER, good post. Hunters are getting fewer and fewer and pretty soon the yuppies will be able to out vote hunters and fishermen at the polls. Theres an article in the Strib about some girl protesting the use of mice in lab to dissect and learn anatomy. How do you suppose she'll vote in the future?

[Mark Christianson]

Fisher Dave
Quite extreme, but you have your opinion.

Hunters are the minority. CYA. Make sure you make an attempt at leaving as positive of an image as you can, where you can, when you can.

One thing is certain. There are extremists in the anti-hunting arena. And there are extremists in the hunting arena. I don't think either one does hunting one bit of good.

[Fisher Dave]

Hunters are a minority in the state of Minnesota vs. the anti's simply because hunters in general will not publicly speak out... lets face it, most of us do not have the time, or desire to fight a bunch of nonsense. The anti's are against virtually everything pertaining to hunting.. hunters just try to enjoy their rights, although many of us have different views... So on one end of the spectrum, we have an organized group trying to peck away at our rights, on the other end(us), we have a group that will only agree to disagree on what we can and cant do.

So in the end, the true anti's will always do their things, and take whatever they can. I just hope that hunters can quit taking rights from themselve's.

My son just turned 3, where does this leave him? I really hope in the future he does not have to burden with a bunch of rediculas laws.. and when he does finally hunt or fish on his own, he has more of a choice than sitting on a tree branch to wait for a buck with no less than 5 points on one side... or enjoy a good walleye bite and be able to keep a walleye that doesnt fall in a 14 3/4" and 15 1/4" slot limit.. or that he doesnt run out of bait before he gets a few slot fish because he is only allowed to have a maximum of 30 minnows in his possession.

The biggest threat that sportsman have is each other.. not the anti's. They dont need to jump in and try to take our rights, we slowly do it to ourselves. Banning permanent tree stands because they are an eye-sore to a few select individuals... well, I'll bet the 250,000 in Minnesota that climb into a permanent opening morning dont think they are so ugly. How about enfocement to fine people? Is it right for people to be fined in a stand that the hunter didnt construct?

[Ybone]

Permanent stands are already banned on national forest land and 2 counties [Cass and Crow Wing] are in the process of banning them on county land. There are other reasons for the ban than the eyesore thing. Putting nails in a tree pretty much destroys the marketability of the tree. There are plenty of options for comfortable stands that aren't nailed to trees. In Crow Wing County you can place stands in August before bear season and leave them until January after bow season closes. They just can't be nailed to trees nor can trees be cut for firing lanes. I believe this begins in 2005. As far as the ban being a victory for the antis, I disagree. It improves the image of hunters to the nonhunting public.

[Mark Christianson]

F D said "The biggest threat that sportsman have is each other.. not the anti's"

Bingo! We agree Fisher!
Exactly why we should cover our butts and do the right thing to keep as positive of an image as we can, so your 3 year old can enjoy the outdoors some day.
I stated several posts back, that I don't think permanent stands is the beginning of the "end all" for hunting. But, if there are negative impacts, then it should be dealt with in some manner.

Enjoy your grilled Muskie FisherDave. I like to catch bass.