New Shooter

[nofishfisherman]

A buddy that I rifle hunt with has been wanting me to join him bow hunting for a couple years now.  He gave me an old PSE Thunderbolt to shoot that he got from his father in law.  I took it in to Bwana and got it set up to shoot as best they could.  The draw length is maxed out at 30.5 but its still maybe a half inch to 1 inch short for me.  

I taken the bow out to the local outdoor range a number of times to start practicing.  First couple trips went well.  I was shooting at 20 yards and my groupings weren't amazing but I was putting 80-90% of my arrows within a 6 inch circle, I considered that a good start.  Since those first couple of trips my groups are getting a little tighter each time but I've started to experience a problem with the groups moving around the target.  One day they were high right, then low left, and last trip they were straight low.  Each day out the group location would remain consistent for the duration of the shoot so I could get the arrows on target by adjusting my aim point.  I just can't seem to get my groups to consistently hit one spot on the target.

Without seeing me shoot my buddy thought it was probably an issue with my anchor point being inconsistent. With the short draw length I feel like I'm having a hard time getting enough points of contact to maintain consistent references for my anchor point.  I'm also not 100% sure my peep is placed correctly.

Any tips for maintaining that anchor point given a short draw length?  What about the peep?  Any other thoughts on what the issue could be.

I won't be bow hunting this year so I'm not in a huge rush to get things dialed in but I want to make sure I'm establishing good habits and getting the most out of my time at the range. Once I get into the sport with this hand me down bow I do plan on upgrading to something that fits a little better but a free bow is hard to pass up when just getting into the sport.

Thanks for any pointers.

[delcecchi]

Do folks still use "kissers" or whatever they are called?  It is a bead thing you put on the string and the anchor point is your lips.  Since your draw length is a little short that might work ok for you.  You draw until the string comes to your chin, lips, nose. 

It has been a good while since I did any archery, and just happened to see this post. 

[nofishfisherman]

I do have a kisser on the bow but with the draw being just a little short I'm having a hard time with a consistent feel on the kisser.  Maybe its as simple as moving it around to find a better spot, I don't really know. 

From what I have read having more than one point of contact/reference point is beneficial for consistency.  I am having a hard time with that.

[troutkingmaster]

Did you have a proshop confirm that the draw length is too short for you?

Most people tend to set their draw length longer than it actually should be and want to lock their left elbow. When I shoot, my left arm has quite a bit of bend when I am at full draw and anchored. 

[nofishfisherman]

Yes the guy at Bwana Archery who set the bow up for me is the one who told me that the draw length is still a little short.  He got it as long as he could but said its still roughly half inch short.  I'm 6'4" with relatively long arms and I believe he said the draw is at 30.5".

I'm trying to think about my shooting form and I do think my left arm (bow arm) is fairly close to straight but not sure if its locked or not.  I'll be at the range tomorrow evening and will try to pay attention to that to see if there is any bend.

[delcecchi]

Did you have a proshop confirm that the draw length is too short for you?

Most people tend to set their draw length longer than it actually should be and want to lock their left elbow. When I shoot, my left arm has quite a bit of bend when I am at full draw and anchored. 

How do you maintain a consistent draw length?  Something on the arrow?

[BoxMN]

I think D loop can give you extra .25", but maybe you have that alreeady. I know you can set the release just a tad longer too. Might ake up some of that half inch together, but does't matter if it doesn't fit your face right I guess. Good luck.

I think D loop can give you extra .25", but maybe you have that alreeady. I know you can set the release just a tad longer too. Might ake up some of that half inch together, but does't matter if it doesn't fit your face right I guess. Good luck.

[nofishfisherman]

Yeah i've got the D loop already on there as well.  I'll just keep working at it to see if i can figure out some consistency.

[eyeguy 54]

trade it for the right size bow and your groups at 20 yards will be a 50 cent piece.  

[nofishfisherman]

Of course that's the obvious answer.  However you can't get much in trade for a 20 year old bow and the bow is not mine so I'm guessing my buddy doesn't want me trading it away on him.

Right now a new bow is not in the budget and likely won't be for awhile. I was hoping to make this bow work for a year or two while I decide if I want to drop the cash needed to get a bow for myself. That would give me some time to save up while still having something to shoot. 

[eyeguy 54]

got it,  open your stance a little might help also. longer d loop maybe.  good luck. 

[DonBo]

A draw length that is too short is WAY better than one too long. You can deal with your arm slightly bent.  Your floating groups are probably either an inconsistent placement of your grip on the handle, or the anchor point already mentioned.  An easy way to fix that is to center the housing of your sight pins in the center of your peep sight. I do this and let my anchor point float some, as long as those two things are centered every time, you should be okay.

There's always things to learn in this sport, but consistency is the main thing.  Even if you are doing something wrong, as long as you do it the same every time, you'll shoot pretty good.

Good luck! 

[bigbucks]

Pay attention to your draw elbow too.  Make sure it's over the top as much as possible.  I find if I get lazy that tends to not be real consistent.

[nofishfisherman]

What do you mean by "over the top" with the draw elbow?

[DonBo]

What do you mean by "over the top" with the draw elbow?

I'm a little confused by that too.  The arm from wrist to elbow should be in a straight line with your arrow.

[eyeguy 54]

yepper, no bending for me. My arm is a post.   was taught that many years ago

 

[nofishfisherman]

I spent some time at the range again tonight.  Paid attention to my bow arm and its pretty much locked straight.  Bending the arm just seems to add in one more hard to control variable.

I did work on my grip a little and adjusted my peep just a touch.  Overall it was a much better night with my group placement much better.  Both me and my buddy shot my bow and we both found the 20 yard pin was just a touch low so I'll need to adjust that but otherwise was happy with my shooting given the tough wind.

 

[DonBo]

  Paid attention to my bow arm and its pretty much locked straight. 

 

 

Your bow arm should never be locked straight.  Never.  Relax it just a bit and you'll do much better.  Also, how can it be straight if your draw length is too short? Doesn't sound like that's a problem at all. 

[nofishfisherman]

I'll try relaxing the arm a bit next time out.

Seems to me the draw length could still be too short if my left arm is straight.  I'd just be coming up short on the optimal anchor point when drawing the bow back.  But then again I'm no expert.  I'm just going by what the expert at the pro shop told me.

[DonBo]

Getting your anchor point where it should be should be your first priority, bend your bow arm to accommodate. I shoot with several who bend their bow arms at seemingly extreme angles with great results.

[nofishfisherman]

I've done a little reading on the straight vs bent arm debate.  Seems its a popular topic of discussion.  General consensus from most coaches seems to be straight arm but not locked, just leave it relaxed but straight.  However, there is a healthy amount of "do what works for you" in the conversation as well.  Either way it likely boils down to practice and finding a way to be consistent in whatever you are doing.

[DonBo]

 it likely boils down to practice and finding a way to be consistent in whatever you are doing.

Exactly!

[Powerstroke]

Don is very correct that most people try to draw longer than an optimal draw length. It is far easier to be accurate with a shortened draw length than an over drawn bow. So, if you're coming up a half inch short, you are just fine. 

I also got into archery the same way you did. A borrowed bow that was too short for me. Don't worry about it and keep shooting. The bow I started with was more than 1" too short and had steel cables, it was that old. I still learned to shoot with proper fundementals and then bought a used bow that was sized for me and made in the current century. 

DOn't focus too much on the fine details right now. Just get comfortable drawing and shooting. Focus on your hand placement on the grip, your alignment of the peep sight and the pin guard (like Don mentioned) and having a consistant anchor point. I do the anchor point by placing my release hand in the same place on my chin every time and touching my nose to the string with the release or Dloop at the corner of my mouth, all with very light pressure. Repeat, repeat, repeat. 

[nofishfisherman]

I appreciate the tips.  I snuck out of work for a long lunch break and went to shoot for a little while.  

Over the past couple trips I've been able to get a more consistent grip and I've also gotten more comfortable with my anchor point.  I am currently resting my thumb on my jaw bone and I've been able to get a good feel with that.

I shot at 20 and 30 yards to start and was maintaining a relatively consistent 4 inch group at both distances and the group was right on target, no more groups moving around.  I shot at 40 yards a little as well and was ok vertically but with the gusty winds my arrows were spread out pretty good from left to right but all found the target. 

I'll just keep shooting and shooting and shooting.  I still have no plans to bow hunt this year so i have another year of shooting to get better.  I will be going up to Duluth in a couple weeks to scout a new 10 acre property that I've been given access to once I start bow hunting.  They have a lot of problems with deer so I'm anxious to get up there to see what next year may yield. 

[nofishfisherman]

This is what my shot placement is looking like at 20 yards.  At 30 yards its similar placement but the group is just a touch wider.  I'm happy with the results after less than 3 weeks of practice. 

Edited September 18, 2015 by nofishfisherman