Expected worst Deer harvest in 20 years!

[PropsterII]

I'd love to be able to follow your reasoning a bit better OTC - think you could slip in a period here or there? It's like a race reading your posts, and I'm out of breath at the end

[sticknstring]

O.T.C. - Outrageous Treatment of Commas

[O.T.C.]

Sorry, will shorten up lol. What I'm saying some is wolves hammered 240 in places right along with extra tags and bad springs. Many friends and relatives had way more wolf pics then deer in recent years. Deer were thinning down the way it was, add a 24/7 predator(s) in these wintering grounds and we found a lot of skulls and vertebra, alot of kills. 240 will rebound though, it would rebound better if wolves weren't around now. The big ? might be how'd they get here kinda, where do they cross HWY 10 at ? Sorry this old dairy farmer didn't care much about English or grammar, but will clean it up.

[SmellEsox]

They are pretty much everywhere north and east of Hwy 10 past Little Falls. They could come from anywhere.

[sticknstring]

Just ribbin' ya Musky Buhh... O.T.C.!

It's nice to see you posting relevant info from your neck of the woods again.

[Bureaucrat]

The interesting thing is, up until about four weeks ago, there were a half dozen livestock and pet depredation reports in the outdoor news on a weekly basis. I haven't looked at last week's issue yet, but there were multiple reports of pets being hauled away in the jaws of a wolf in the city of Duluth.

If the woods are empty of prey, the wolves are gonna move into yards and burbs to vacuum up whatever critters they can get their hands on.

[smsmith]

The interesting thing is, up until about four weeks ago, there were a half dozen livestock and pet depredation reports in the outdoor news on a weekly basis. I haven't looked at last week's issue yet, but there were multiple reports of pets being hauled away in the jaws of a wolf in the city of Duluth.

If the woods are empty of prey, the wolves are gonna move into yards and burbs to vacuum up whatever critters they can get their hands on.

I hope they move to the Metro and help solve the deer overpopulation "problem" there...then move on to FiFi, Fido and Mr. Whiskers.

[Bureaucrat]

(Is my new avatar available now?)

[SmellEsox]

(Is my new avatar available now?)

I don't see it.

[DaveT]

I hope they move to the Metro and help solve the deer overpopulation "problem" there...then move on to FiFi, Fido and Mr. Whiskers.

They may already be here. FB buddy posted this yesterday. He was in Bloomington near the river and 35W. Swears it was a wolf but I can't confirm off the pic. Definitely not colored like a coyote...

[leechlake]

I'm no dog expert but the tail looks wolfie to me. At first I thought you were posting a photo of a pile of dirt...hard to see it well.

[sticknstring]

How is the coloring not 'yote related?

[picksbigwagon]

Too fuzzy to tell, but the ears do look rounded

[smsmith]

No expert here either, but if I had to guess...that's either a wolf or a dog, doesn't look like a yote to me.

[sticknstring]

Yeah, I'm certainly no expert, hence the question. I get a lot of daylight 'yotes on cam every year and they come in a variety of colors. Just curious was all. Wouldn't suprise me a bit to see a wolf in the MN river valley.

[smsmith]

I would expect that it would be necessary to reproduce more does than bucks simply due to the mortality rates. It would be different if they routinely dropped litters of younguns or larger quantities like fish but they don't and since a single buck can breed multiple does but does can only get pregnant once per cycle, it would be self-destructive to the species to have a 1:1 ratio.

Why would mortality rates be higher for does than bucks?

[leechlake]

I'd say due to pregnancy issues. Biggest one may be they get whacked on the road way more than bucks except "maybe" during the rut or chase phase. Almost every dead deer on the road has no rack the majority of the year.

[smsmith]

I'd say due to pregnancy issues. Biggest one may be they get whacked on the road way more than bucks except "maybe" during the rut or chase phase. Almost every dead deer on the road has no rack the majority of the year.

I used to notice that as well, then started noticing that many of those deer without antlers used to have them before somebody cut them off Lots of money to be made with deer antlers, big or small.

My understanding is that there are more doe fawns dropped than buck fawns, but not significantly more.

If anything, the mortality rate of bucks in MN is higher than it is for does.

[leechlake]

Respectfully disagree. Even at 60 mph I can see the big blood spot from a rack being removed. Sure it happens a bit but 90% plus of road kills are antler less.

[NWKR]

From 2009 to 2013 about 55%-57% of the fawns shot were buck fawns. If there are slightly more doe fawns than buck fawns why would the buck fawn harvest be 5-7% higher? Do they start to get a little worked up during the rut and run around a bit more than the doe fawns? Are they a little bigger so hunters are more likely to shoot them when two fawns are standing next to each other?

[smsmith]

Respectfully disagree. Even at 60 mph I can see the big blood spot from a rack being removed. Sure it happens a bit but 90% plus of road kills are antler less.

Let's assume you're correct...do you think the few thousand does killed each year via car kills evens out the greater number of bucks harvested each year via hunting?

When I mentioned antlers being removed, I didn't mean the skull plate and antlers...I meant just the antlers. They're sawed off at the base of the skull.

[DaveT]

How is the coloring not 'yote related?

I've never seen one with that mix of light and dark, and the dark parts are darker than any yote I've seen. I don't know but it just doesn't look like a coyote to me.

[smsmith]

From 2009 to 2013 about 55%-57% of the fawns shot were buck fawns. If there are slightly more doe fawns than buck fawns why would the buck fawn harvest be 5-7% higher? Do they start to get a little worked up during the rut and run around a bit more than the doe fawns? Are they a little bigger so hunters are more likely to shoot them when two fawns are standing next to each other?

Buck fawns are the dumbest deer in the woods

They also do tend to be a bit larger than doe fawns and that likely leads to more hunters mistaking them for a young doe.

[SmellEsox]

I think I see a pretty even mix of bucks and does smashed on the road personally. In fall, I think more are bucks. The rest of the year is probably more does. I highly doubt it is 90% does, at least where I live and drive the most.

[O.T.C.]

With this topic I wonder if next year we'll be saying worst deer harvest in 21 years ? Now the wolves, automobiles, and weather will determine how many see once Spring breaks.