Expected worst Deer harvest in 20 years!

[mntatonka]

The difference is, the DNR did this on their own. In MN, area managers wanted to keep hammering them until hunters and the commish told them they needed to back off. That's the difference. MN DNR deer managers are already saying they're going more liberal next year.

How many deer managers? All I ever see is the complaints about one particular manager.

[SmellEsox]

[quote=mntatonka

How many deer managers? All I ever see is the complaints about one particular manager.

[mntatonka]

Yeah you busted me. I don't know about other deer managers in MN. Although from Lou and Leslie, Marrett, etc., the philosophy is to manage on the liberal side. All I know is that across central MN, antlerless deer have been hammered for years.

I'm certainly not trying to argue with you or anyone, I'm just curious. I don't know that I've ever heard anything about anyone except Beau. I talk to my local guys (Don and Don), and they both seem to know what they're doing from a management perspective, although the state doesn't always listen to them

[hockeybc69]

Our deer manager makes me wonder what is going on......

Agreed to stabilize our herd via Stakeholders process for permit area 240 in spring 2007. Chose to keep intensive harvest for 2 more years after that. Why?

After 2014 is complete, our harvest will be down nearly 50% since 2007. Far from a stabilized harvest/poulation......

And I dont want to hear its because of the harsh winters the past 2 years. Its not because of wolves.

Its been in a downward spiral since 2007.... Why? HOw?

[Jameson]

...and they both seem to know what they're doing from a management perspective, although the state doesn't always listen to them

I remember discussing Hunter Choice areas on here when they first came out. One poster wrote that the area manager was very against having their areas as HC, because they thought it should remain Lottery.

No point, just another example...

[picksbigwagon]

Iowa hunters were not happy, at least at the Bent Rim, with the management of the deer herd, they were livid with the lack of tags, etc. I am guessing that this year will be worse..........

[SmellEsox]

Iowa hunters were not happy, at least at the Bent Rim, with the management of the deer herd, they were livid with the lack of tags, etc. I am guessing that this year will be worse..........

So the hunters were mad because they thought there were plenty of deer and they wanted more tags? Man I wish we could get to that place here in MN.

[leechlake]

lack of tags? C'mon to Minnesota we have so many deer that everyone gets a tag, maybe just a buck tag but you get a tag. After you don't kill a buck during "gun" season then you can give it a whirl with your muzzy and then you can kill a doe or a buck. Let's throw in that we're north of Iowa and get worse Winters and it makes even less sense.

For some reason in So Dak where we hunt there is a drawing. Except this year you could buy doe tags but the buck tags are a drawing and this year they had a lot fewer tags available to manage the herd. See 4-15 bucks a day on most days. Also no "party" hunting aka cross tagging. When you are looking at a smallish buck on the first day you don't shoot it because then you're done, can't shoot it and then use your buddy's tag for Mr Big later in the day or season.

So here in Minnesota you get a "Participation" tag every year. You may not see a buck let alone a deer but you got to go out and enjoy hanging out at deer camp.

[smsmith]

You may not see a buck let alone a deer but you got to go out and enjoy hanging out at deer camp.

Ultimately, is that what it comes down to do in MN? Deer hunting has never been viewed with high expectations for the hunt itself, but the social aspect of hanging out with your buddies is a guaranteed good time?

[leechlake]

I agree that for me it's about the experience much more than killing a deer. I mentioned South Dakota, we also get to hang out and experience Deer Camp with the bonus of seeing deer. This year I didn't draw a tag and pondered going anyway but it's 400 miles so I hunted in Minnesota with my family.

Not all feel like I do and I wanted to see and kill a deer when I was younger and in a different stage in my hunting career. Gotta take those folks into account too. If a fisherman was going to Fish Camp would he be happy fishing a lake with very few walleyes but it had a ten fish limit and he caught zero or would he go to a lake that had a lot of walleyes and a 3 fish limit and catch 20 fish? Experience at camp is the same but the fishing part is just plain better in the second example.

[smsmith]

I agree that for me it's about the experience much more than killing a deer. I mentioned South Dakota, we also get to hang out and experience Deer Camp with the bonus of seeing deer. This year I didn't draw a tag and pondered going anyway but it's 400 miles so I hunted in Minnesota with my family.

Not all feel like I do and I wanted to see and kill a deer when I was younger and in a different stage in my hunting career. Gotta take those folks into account too. If a fisherman was going to Fish Camp would he be happy fishing a lake with very few walleyes but it had a ten fish limit and he caught zero or would he go to a lake that had a lot of walleyes and a 3 fish limit and catch 20 fish? Experience at camp is the same but the fishing part is just plain better in the second example.

Thanks for your insight. I'll agree that for me hunting is much more about the experience than it is about killing a deer. However, seeing deer and having the chance to kill one (whether taken or not) is indeed important. I've come to enjoy passing a slam dunk shot much more than pulling the trigger, but when opportunities to pass on deer are few and far between...the joy of being out there is much less...for me anyway.

[hockeybc69]

Quote:

So here in Minnesota you get a "Participation" tag every year. You may not see a buck let alone a deer but you got to go out and enjoy hanging out at deer camp.

Thats all fine and dandy for those that have a deer camp and have the annual get together with folks that you see once a year. We hunt as a family and stay at the same cabin that the same family stays at throughout the summer.

Its another weekend at the cabin for us. So the hunt IS the anticipation and expectation for our group.

[leechlake]

just to clarify my "Participation" tag comment isn't meant as a positive. Kind of like every kid needs to get a trophy at most sporting events. Issue less tags via a drawing.

I'm in the same boat hockey. We spend 15-20 weekends a year at cabin fishing, hunting, or just hanging out. All of those give us the social thing that we also get deer hunting. Wish there was more deer and I think one thing that would help is no Over the Counter tags. Look at Colorado elk vs New Mexico. CO is OTC NM is a draw. Which one has bigger elk on average?

[Getanet]

Leech, if I'm following correctly, you're stumping for a scenario in which MN residents would have to enter a lottery to hunt deer, any deer, in MN?

In other words, if you don't get drawn, you're S.O.L and don't get to hunt that year?

[leechlake]

Yes I would be for a drawing. Maybe some years everyone would get drawn in years higher deer number years when deer numbers are down some guys would be out of luck. I think before something like that is done though that cross tagging aka "party" hunting should not be allowed anymore. You fill your tag and you're done.

[SmellEsox]

Leech, I understand what you're saying, but I don't think that drastic of a plan is necessary for MN. We can have a better hunting experience by just having more deer on the landscape. We do that by being more conservative handing out antlerless tags.

[SmellEsox]

But we have to raise population goals for our DNR follow first. And then second make sure they have a better way of estimating how many deer are out there.

[smsmith]

But we have to raise population goals for our DNR follow first. And then second make sure they have a better way of estimating how many deer are out there.

Good luck with that

[InTheNorthwoods]

Leech, if I'm following correctly, you're stumping for a scenario in which MN residents would have to enter a lottery to hunt deer, any deer, in MN?

In other words, if you don't get drawn, you're S.O.L and don't get to hunt that year?

I like that idea too. Lots of states do it, including North Dakota, South Dakota, etc. It is the only way to control deer harvest numbers. As it stands now, anyone can buy a tag and shoot a deer anywhere they want. You can't control harvest if you have no controls on the number of tags/hunters afield. That is the biggest issue facing MN right now - getting deer numbers to acceptable levels.

If there are enough deer, there will be enough tags for people to draw.

I'd also get rid of party tagging. I.e., your deer, your tag. You shoot and tag one, you don't carry a gun any longer.

That is just the system I'd prefer. I know this has gone round'n'round here, and many people will argue against me. I'm fine with that, and I am fine with not being able to shoot a deer with my gun every year (I don't do that now).

[smsmith]

I like that idea too. Lots of states do it, including North Dakota, South Dakota, etc. It is the only way to control deer harvest numbers. As it stands now, anyone can buy a tag and shoot a deer anywhere they want. You can't control harvest if you have no controls on the number of tags/hunters afield. That is the biggest issue facing MN right now - getting deer numbers to acceptable levels.

If there are enough deer, there will be enough tags for people to draw.

I'd also get rid of party tagging. I.e., your deer, your tag. You shoot and tag one, you don't carry a gun any longer.

That is just the system I'd prefer. I know this has gone round'n'round here, and many people will argue against me. I'm fine with that, and I am fine with not being able to shoot a deer with my gun every year (I don't do that now).

I'm one guy that won't argue with you

I've now gone 3 years without shooting a deer in MN, so the prospect of not being able to take one for a year or two due to a lottery of some sort doesn't put me off at all. It all comes down to what people value. A good quality hunt or being able to go hunting every year with a less than desirable deer herd. I'll take the quality every time. Like you said though...plenty of others will opt for "choice B"

[InTheNorthwoods]

Our deer manager makes me wonder what is going on......

Agreed to stabilize our herd via Stakeholders process for permit area 240 in spring 2007. Chose to keep intensive harvest for 2 more years after that. Why?

After 2014 is complete, our harvest will be down nearly 50% since 2007. Far from a stabilized harvest/poulation......

And I dont want to hear its because of the harsh winters the past 2 years. Its not because of wolves.

Its been in a downward spiral since 2007.... Why? HOw?

Because people who shoot anything to fill tags, will always find a way to get more tags to fill. It doesn't matter if they could get 5 tags, 3 tags, or 1 tag - they will still shoot as many deer as they feel they need/want so long as they can find them (and its not tough to find three deer in a season if you work at it - whether there are 50 deer a square mile or 5 deer a square mile). Party hunters who whack and stack deer, just get mom/sister/grandma/neighbor/priest/Mark Dayton a tag and fill it for them. The change is that, now, when you kill 3 deer, there are 2 deer left on the block instead of 47. When they run out of deer on their "block", they drive 30 miles and push the woods to shoot as many as they can on the next "block" over.

I have seen this happen a lot. I am not complaining, it is what it is - a lot of these people are good people I know; friends, family, neighbors. It is simply a reality under our current regulations.

[snowfighter]

Go back to the old days. 9 day season every other year either sex.

[leechlake]

One hunter shooting multiple deer is a large problem in my opinion. Maybe ranking a close second to weather severity. This year one guy in our party had a doe permit (why they even gave any our in our area 259 perplexes me). Here are some real life examples of how deer are annually over harvested and the system makes it pretty difficult for people to get caught breaking the law.

1. One of the guys suggested my son come with us so "we" would have another doe tag.

2. One year I lost my archery license. I went to get a duplicate and now I had a replacement tag. Found my lost license a few weeks later. Dawned on me that I had two tags if I chose to roll the dice and break the law.

3. Many people don't register their deer. Now that it's not done at a Reg Station in most of the state you can load the deer up in your truck and legally don't have to register it even if you leave your zone or doe permit area. Get it home in garage and butcher it. What the heck go whack another one a few days later and use the same tag, even with the dates notched

out.

4. Party hunting. Bill leaves deer camp and his buddy's tell him to leave his tag. Harry shoots Bill's buck the next am.

5. Party hunting. People legally shoot others deer. "Did you hear Harry got two bucks and two does this year (one is a fawn)."

6. Have wife and grandma get a license/tag. Grandma is 83 and uses a walker. Wife never shot a gun in her life.

I'm sure that there are many other sketchy/illegal ways that people hurt our deer population. I'm positive the DNR has a factor built into their harvest data that "attempts" to take this into account. The system is so open to any unethical and "creative" ideas to make it easy to break the law that it's pathetic.

[NWKR]

1. One of the guys suggested my son come with us so "we" would have another doe tag.

4. Party hunting. Bill leaves deer camp and his buddy's tell him to leave his tag. Harry shoots Bill's buck the next am.

6. Have wife and grandma get a license/tag. Grandma is 83 and uses a walker. Wife never shot a gun in her life.

The sad thing is many people do not even realize that doing the above are illegal. They are no better than someone shooting a buck at night with a spotlight.

[Getanet]

Why did you leave #3 off the list?

Most hunters are ethical and follow the law. Folks that knowingly break the law will likely continue to do so, not matter what regulations are put in place.