Audit Push: Time To Act!

[Bureaucrat]

My tip: Go bonkers with the red osier dogwood while the gettin's good. That was our plan this year. So far it's working well. Hopefully in another couple years we'll have tons of winter cover, road screen, and reachable winter browse. It's not thermal cover, but at least it's cover from the mobile chevy stands.

[laker1]

Red Osier dogwood is good stuff. How are you replanting it?

Also Mountain maple is a excellent bush,tho it can get a little higher.

[Bureaucrat]

I got 300 plugs from Itasca Greenhouse. Planted all of them in one day. Fast, cheap, and easy. There are some considerations to keep in mind though. One, you're just punching a hole in the ground and kicking it shut. Rain helps a lot. B, you're not going to get 100% survival. But when they're 25 cents a piece and you can plant multiple per minute, you can beat it with quantity. And fourth, you may be planting into grass, weeds, or taller vegetation, so it could take an extra year or two for them to stretch out.

My hope is that because they are native and fast growing they can tolerate the sun and space competition for a couple years then stretch over and above the rest.

Beyond that, my hope is that the deer and birds do the reseeding and spreading for me.

[NWKR]

Red Osier dogwood is good stuff. How are you replanting it?

Also Mountain maple is a excellent bush,tho it can get a little higher.

I have looked for mountain maple bushes lately and have not found any places selling them when doing a internet search. Know of any places?

[Bureaucrat]

Nailed it!

I had to search the US"DA" to find the scientific name of it. I then went back and googled Acer spicatum nursery

http://www.outbacknursery.com/catalog/acerspicata.htm

http://www.outbacknursery.com/catalog/trees.htm

I've never used this nursery, so i can't offer any feedback. But they're out there.

[smsmith]

Bureaucrat...how did the ROD plugs do over the summer? Pretty good survival rates? I've got 1500 conifers on order with NCR, but may add some ROD.

[Bureaucrat]

From what I can tell they did great. It was an ideal year for plugs given all the rain we had. With all the rain, we also had a very lush forest floor that got up to 4 feet and some spots taller. The ROD plugs I received were about 3 feet tall to begin with, so that helped.

Of the ones I could find, all were growing and healthy looking. Many of them got nipped by the deer, but not pulled out, and not too much taken off. The fellar at IG said it wasn't a big deal if they get nipped. It could even help them tolerate a drought in the early stages of year 1 or 2.

They were hard to find among the greenery this year, but I did find many of them and they looked good. I'll wait through next year to do a better stand assessment. If I got holes, I will most likely go back in year 3 and put in another 100 or so.

For next year, it's looking like a lot of brush work is going to need to be done to keep sunlight in order. I'm gonna intermingle a few dozen chokeberry bushes between my bur oak tubes and do some grafting on the apples. Otherwise, the rest of the work is building out the food plots and getting the trail soils ready to plant rye.

[Farmsfulltime]

Is the audit push over or are the special interest groups waiting till after the main deer season to start the push on the DNR because of a lower harvest, maybe that's the only way to get traction ? The harvest will be lower because the groups asked for less tags and got that now they will want more of the DNR . Here is a thought let the system work as intended and the deer will be plenty.

[ANYFISH2]

. Here is a thought let the system work as intended and the deer will be plenty.

That's is what we are trying to ensure happens.

[Farmsfulltime]

I can see well whats being tried and there doesn't seem to be much support for the manipulations by a few as the main supporters of the audit have all signed on and then nothing not much REAL support in the hunting populations, So the one agenda is to sell the fear of a crashing deer herd when deer hunting is fresh in the hunters minds , because if you wait 1 or 2 months the average hunter wont care again very well hidden but still out in the open . Well thought out but wont work well .

[Jameson]

...The harvest will be lower because the groups asked for less tags and got that...

You have niave reasoning, like I used to. Last hunting season (2013) the DNR had more tags available then the previous season (2012) and WE HARVESTED FEWER DEER.

More tags does not necessarily equate to more deer shot. Less tags does not necessarily equate to less deer shot.

Considering all the standing corn we supposedly had last year, and all the fields that didn't even get planted this year, the harvest should be up from last year. The reports were that it was really windy last year, too. If we have little wind our harvest should go up.

Does that last paragraph read like a pile of doo doo, because it is the reasons given by the DNR for the lower harvest the past couple of years.

Unless we have drastically changed regulations the only reason harvest goes up or down is the deer population. Going from Lottery to Bucks Only is only going to save the number of does that were shot in that unit the previous year, and could increase the buck harvest. Whoop de do da. Not much change in harvest numbers for one year from that kind of regulation change.

[Bear55]

Why don't we all just get ready for a very low harvest. The DNR will say they are giving out less tags to help the population recover and site the past two winters for a lower population. The will be mostly right but people will freak out anyway.

[hockeybc69]

I am ready for a low harvest. But what irks me is that our wildlife manager INSISTS that our population of deer is the same today as it was in 2007.

Yet our harvest is down 34% from 2007 to last season....

I have asked over and over.... How can we be shooting so many fewer deer, year after year after year, and at some point there isnt an influx of deer that survive and the populations(or harvest) dont either stabilize or increase??

So yes I am ready for a low harvest, but I am not ready to sit back and watch the continued lack of improvements for the long term with the mentality of the people managing the deer herd.

[Farmsfulltime]

Ok ,, I will date myself a little I have deer hunted since 1971 have seen the highs and lows , and the population now is not low compared to the early 70s , of coarse tags and the DNR control population some . we had very few wolves in the northern one third of the state then with the population then you counted how many you seen in a season not how many daily . Not that I would ever want to see those numbers again I think you young guys cry to much . ITs HUNTING it is supposed to be hard or the accomplishment is worth less. These aren't cattle and can not be managed that way . Let the DNR do their job . Maybe a few past QMDA members got their feelings hurt alittle by one area manager that didn't cow tow to their requests Grow up call for change you got it let the process work . For some the herd and seasons will never be right and will constantly be calling for change . Theres more opportunity out there for the good hunters

[BRULEDRIFTER]

It's HUNTING it is supposed to be hard or the accomplishment is worth less.

Why? Says who? What's wrong with having a higher deer population so it doesn't require people to take multiple weeks off of work trying to pattern and hunt 1 deer, any deer? (oh, that's right, you're a farmer and deer are spawn of the devil).

Now, I'm not saying they should be behind every tree, but it's clear the DNR management is flawed and the deer population is a shell of what it once was.

[smsmith]

Hunting isn't supposed to be "hard"...its supposed to be fun, entertaining, and worthwhile.

Hunting a mature, trophy buck?...yes, that's oftentimes hard and challenging. Hunting a doe or young buck? That is NOT supposed to be hard. I don't want a deer "behind every tree" but I sure as heck want a population of deer that keeps new and young hunters interested in hunting.

Try telling a 13 year old that hunting for a season without seeing a deer is "good" because hunting is supposed to be "hard" and if it wasn't it wouldn't be "rewarding". You'll be hunting without that kid in a couple years because he/she would much rather participate in another activity.

[Farmsfulltime]

No deer are not spawn of the devil, but one thing is absolutely true if you farm you wont ever have a problem finding deer to hunt because they are all here where the food is that's why guys do all the habitat work because they know where the food is ,is where the deer are . As far as young hunters if they hunt they will hunt regardless of populations in fact some of us OLD guys started and stayed with deer hunting from low,low populations in fact didn't see easy hunting until the 80s , Know plenty of committed deer hunters my age that started the same time in life . The good deer hunters will always find plenty even with these populations .

[smsmith]

The good deer hunters will always find plenty even with these populations .

Yup...and the "good deer hunters" comprise what....15% of the hunting public? So the other 85% are stuck with dump hunting. Its easy to say "just be a better deer hunter" or "hunt where the deer are"....its not easy for a lot of folks to become "better" deer hunters, or to change where they hunt. It shouldn't require a marathoner's dedication to go out and shoot a doe or a young buck.

[hockeybc69]

Dang. All i need to find is a farm field??? How stupid of me.

Thanks for the tip FFT.

[nonteepical]

Ok ,, I will date myself a little

your senile.

[smsmith]

Ok ,, I will date myself a little I have deer hunted since 1971 have seen the highs and lows , and the population now is not low compared to the early 70s

You and I are in the same approximate age group...you probably have me by a handful of years.

So...if this year's total harvest comes in at around the level of what it was in say...1965 or 1966...you'll continue to have zero problems with the DNR and their deer management...correct?

[Bureaucrat]

I forgot one big outlying factor that could potentially drive down the harvest further than expected from the reduced doe tags.

Consider we've had two brutal winters in a row now. For two fawning seasons, we've had some pretty beat up does going into spring that may have aborted one or all of their fawns. From the second winter past, those fawns would be this year's basket rack herd destined for the meat pole. I would expect buck harvest to decline as well as doe.

Gonna be interesting in here come Thanksgiving.

[hockeybc69]

According to FarmsAlot..... Just find a farm field and you will find deer.

I guess if I put signs that say "FARM" on my corn, beans, clover and winter rye I have in our ground, then the deer would just show up..... I had no idea that farm fields had such an easy time drawing deer....

Maybe I should rent our land to a farmer and all my deer concerns will disappear.

[Bear55]

I am ready for a low harvest. But what irks me is that our wildlife manager INSISTS that our population of deer is the same today as it was in 2007.

I've always said since the population boom the DNR is learning on the job, still a long way to go but they should have a better idea what is happening now and they also know the general public won't settle for excuses and a steady 1 million deer population year after year. The time to ease back on the doe tags was maybe 2008-2012 but they didn't really take care of business back then. Last two winters should have speeded up their education a bit. The thing I wonder about is even if the held the tags back a lot of us might be in the same boat because of the winters. Hopefully in the future we see them a little more open to changes faster down the road. For a while we probably had too many deer, then they naturally over correct the problem and here we sit. A little honesty could go a long way too, nothing wrong with telling people one year there are 500K deer and during peak years it was 1.5 million or so. They don't have to be correct but something close would help.

[smsmith]

A little honesty could go a long way too, nothing wrong with telling people one year there are 500K deer and during peak years it was 1.5 million or so. They don't have to be correct but something close would help.

Exactly. Leslie was quoted awhile ago that the herd in central MN had not shrunk signficantly and that there was still "about a million deer" in the state. Now, she's being quoted as saying our kill may come in around 120K and that the reason for the low harvest is because the DNR is trying to rebuild the herd.

If the herd is in fine shape and there's about a million deer in the state, why do we need to rebuild the herd?

"About a million" in DNR speak must mean anywhere between 500K and 1.5 million