An AIS movement I can get behind!

[RumRiverRat]

I can name dozens of lakes that do not have milfoil.

I can name several that I wish had milfoil.

Milfoil is good for fish.

[20lbSloughShark]

I think your thinking of northern mil foil Rum. Northern is native to Minnesota, while Eurasian is invasive and is bad for fish.

[swampman]

I applaud Tom Zeneko for writing a article that needs to be heard even if alot of people don't want to hear it. I remember a lengthy thread about the invasives on here about a year ago with many on this forum actually buying into the hoopla that this was a winnable fight.

I had this very conversation with a co the other day after being pulled over for missing a dried weed on my trailer ( which was'nt milfoil) got ticketed for not having my drain plug out of my bone dry jon boat, I was in violation and got a ticket for which I take responsibility and will pay my fine but what was really accomplished in this,nothing except some revenue for the state. Its like being ticketed for owning a gun because you might rob a bank with it, I did'nt introduce anything from one lake to another any more than I robbed a bank with my gun.

I told him the whole thing was pointless to which he did'nt agree, I realize he has a job to do and is enforcing what he is told to do. This is'nt sour grapes on my part as I have been saying this whole thing was pointless from day one. Maybe something can be changed on current policy but I won't be holding my breath.

[fishnowworknever]

swampman

I wonder if you could fight that ticket as you didn't actually transport any vegetation from one body of water to another...

Who's to say that piece of dried up "weed" on your trailer didn't kick up from the road from the person infront of you who was also trailering a boat.

Do we need to start pulling over every 10 miles to check to make sure something wasn't thrown onto our boat/trailer from the road as well?

There's always an angle.

[mallardnwalleye]

I think your thinking of northern mil foil Rum. Northern is native to Minnesota, while Eurasian is invasive and is bad for fish.

Not true.

The edge and tops of milfoil Eurasian or northern are fish holders. even inside the milfoil are quite a few fish.

They nuke the milfoil out on White Bear and turn a whole lot of productive spots with milfoil into fish wastelands without.

Please quit repeating what someone told you and go out to a lake and fish the Eurasian milfoil or hybrids. You will be pleasantly surprised.

[20lbSloughShark]

The problem is Eurasian mil foil is taking over areas, native plants used to be. Sure, fish hide in it, but fish will hide anywhere they can to survive.

[mallardnwalleye]

Yeah I sure wish it stayed native but Eurasian milfoil is a plant and is used by fish (again try it).

Over treating it or overstepping in the prevention of its spread is not good for fishing and fishermen in my personal experience and observation. If you nuke the milfoil you have no weeds for a year. even then it grows back. Again I have seen 100 + acres of solid fishing spots wiped out for 1 year.

If an area gets too thick and matts up, sure treat it but I see whole submerged weed beds that hold a lot of fish get nuked.

[fishnowworknever]

Milfoil isn't a huge problem on lakes that have low amounts of nitrogen run off.

There are many lakes that are infested with Eurasian milfoil, but also live along with the native aquatic plants.

The problem lies when those lakes are filled with nitrogen run off, low water levels and high water temps... eu milfoil thrives in those lakes and chokes out everything else.

[Scott M]

Zenanko makes some good points. It's probably one of the better articles I've read about the political issues that exist within DNR. So much of what that organization does is driven by political mandate and/or public sentiment. The harshest critics like to say that the DNR makes the rules - and while they do have special rulemaking powers, they are very limited compared to the powers of the legislative branch and rightfully so. Those same critics point out that the DNR testifies for or against these bills. But I have yet to hear testimony where Steve Hirsch, Jay Rendall, or Steve Enger testified for stickers or roadside checks. There's just no perfect solution, so no matter the strategy taken, it's an untenable position for MN DNR.

The little guy is always the one who pays. Sportsmen are taking it in the shorts with AIS. Remember that many of these invasives have come in through commerce - many terrestrial invasives came in as ornamentals, many aquatic invasives as ballast carryover. Most of these invasives can be sourced and they didn't come from sportsmen. Little was and is being done to prevent those infestations from beginning; instead we are focusing on taking down the little guy with his own money.

Zenanko talks out of both sides of his mouth on the point of control. What I mean is, he rightfully points out that control is our only hope. But prevention is a type of control. And research is our only hope for control. He blasts the U of M for taking money for research, then later points out that we should have an open competition for academia and private interest to research AIS. Huh?

He lists loosestrife and sea lamprey as species that haven't been eliminated. True enough. But they have been very well controlled. Why? Because research found ways to do so. If we cut off funding for research, citing the impossible task of elimination as cause, we're cutting off our nose to spite our face if we ever hope to control AIS. And if you want to talk money, the money invested in research pales in comparison to the billions of dollars our resources are worth as uninfested waters or in more reasonable terms, as places where AIS is in control.

Where Zenanko loses me is with his talk of putting tax dollars towards commercial fishing of Asian carp or his and others theory that waterfowl are moving invasives around. Don't you think the major waterfowl feeding and resting areas would be covered in milfoil, curlyleaf, loosestrife, zeebs, etc.? Think about it, it's the same logic application.

There's plenty to nitpick. Turkeys are not an introduced species in Minnesota. He also compares milfoil and loosestrife infestations. He gets an "A" for effort, but an "F" for invasion biology. Those plants are spread in two wholly different ways. They are apples and oranges for comparisons. Yes, he correctly points out that nature finds a way. But you can look at historical rates of spread...he's not really naive enough to think that humans aren't driving the huge changes in exotic invasions?

I like Zenanko's enthusiasm to rally sportsmen - these are the people that have found a lot of solutions for fishing and hunting threats. I also agree with him about rethinking how we are spending this money and how effective some of the AIS laws in place are. My $0.02 on T.Z.'s manifesto - some good points, some enthusiasm, and a jumpoff point on the discussion of Minnesota AIS reform - and its sorely needed.

[Mike Walerak]

Well said Scott M.

I myself studied biology, natural resources and agriculture in college and have a carrer working with all three on a daily basis. While I don't work directly with invasives I do have to deal with them on occation and understand the impact they have on natural and disturbed systems.

Things will never be back to being prestine and undisturbed. But I will say it is better to slow down the spread now deal with a complete infestation in the near future. How would you feel if I took my boat straight out of the Mississippi River (wich I fish 3 times a week) and take all my bait and bilge water along with a weed or two up to Detroit Lakes or that tiny little quiet lake in Brainerd that harldy anyone knows about and set up shop and fish for the weekend? I don't think anyone would appreciate that. That is exactly what these rules are in place to do. I fish on aveage 3 times a week and know the rules and follow them. It isn't that hard and I look at like I'm helping someone else out by setting an example. Was it a pain at first? YES. How many times do you think I put my boat in without the plug in? I can think of 3 off the top of my head.

Change is never easy but I think overtime it will pay of dividends and buy us time while researchers find a way to at least slow the spread down. It might not be easiest thing for us to deal with but it is the only option out there right now.

mw

[Stick in Mud]

Like most, I find the AIS laws supremely annoying most of the time and downright stupid at other times. I think Zenanko's article is a good first step (er, like, 24th) step towards a more reasonable discussion about AIS and what--if anything--to do about them. I hope it starts something good.

I must say, though, that the "poor sportsmen" victimhood complex (it's not sportsmen, it's geese! No, it's the media!) does get old, too. Only in the good ol' U.S. of A. is EVERYONE a victim.

I'm curious: Is there any actual evidence that geese and waterfowl actually carry AIS? It seems logical that they might, but I've never actually come across any.

[delcecchi]

They point the finger at sportsmen to avoid having to take steps that would cost money, like closing lock and dam #1 in downtown minneapolis to stop the asian carp, or dealing with the issue of keeping the carp out of the great lakes by permanent barriers in Illinois and Indiana.

[James_R]

I must say, though, that the "poor sportsmen" victimhood complex (it's not sportsmen, it's geese! No, it's the media!) does get old, too. Only in the good ol' U.S. of A. is EVERYONE a victim.

I'm curious: Is there any actual evidence that geese and waterfowl actually carry AIS? It seems logical that they might, but I've never actually come across any.

Waterfowl can't be issued revenue generating

fines by the state. Sportsmen can. I don't think wanting to avoid unnecesarry harrassment by government busy-bodies is the same as claiming you're a victim.

[DTro]

I could care less about the plug rule, that's easy, however the AIS bait regs are not. 95 percent of catfishermen will never be in full compliance.

[TruthWalleyes]

If a cast net, or anchor rope, or boat bunks, carpet, etc can "Carry" AIS than why couldn't duck feathers. Besides, we are talking about vilagers 0.005".

[LMITOUT]

Those same critics point out that the DNR testifies for or against these bills. But I have yet to hear testimony where Steve Hirsch, Jay Rendall, or Steve Enger testified for stickers or roadside checks.

The DNR trots out their legislative wish list every year and while you may not have heard testimony, the documents are there that prove these ideas came straight from the DNR including stickers and roadside checks.

[Alagnak]

Is there any evidence that jumping through all these hoops stops anything either? NO- it just makes libs FEEL GOOD. If so many carriers of it are at the microscopic level- we know darn well that there are a million little places for things to hide not just in the corner of a tank but in water systems both boat and motor, and as mentioned anchor lines, etc. The trained dogs, buying and staffing the wash down stations, reduced hours at lakes, road side checks, keeping people from netting/catching and using bait in the SAME WATER, dumping out my tap water at the landing (I went so far as to remove my livewell) from my bait cooler to fill up with the same tap water, stickers, blah, blah blah is seriously whizzing into a stiff breeze with money and more annoying- common sense. Everyone knows it but yet it still happnens. To make 'concerned (the world is gonna end) citizens FEEL GOOD. It will stop nothing. Honestly the money or little tiny steps i need to take to comply doesn't bother me as much as the total lack of reasoning behind what we're doing besides 'it's buying time until we can figure out what to do'. No, it's generating money at the expense of the people that care about the water the most.

[Stick in Mud]

If a cast net, or anchor rope, or boat bunks, carpet, etc can "Carry" AIS than why couldn't duck feathers. Besides, we are talking about vilagers 0.005".

Of course. I'm not saying it doesn't seem logical, but lots of things seem logical but just ain't so. If it IS true that waterfowl can carry AIS, then the DNR would be in a world of hurt--it's already impossible to justify the onerous anti-AIS misery they're causing...imagine if it were proven that they could be spread "naturally."

On a quick read through the infested waters list, there are a number of "unnamed wetlands" that have zeebs. Conceivably, if waterfowl were transporting them, they'd be found in bodies of water that were inaccessible to boats and not connected by river/stream to other contaminated bodies of water. Wouldn't be THAT hard to "prove."

[Mike Walerak]

Quote:

The DNR trots out their legislative wish list every year and while you may not have heard testimony, the documents are there that prove these ideas came straight from the DNR including stickers and roadside checks.

Please direct me to them. I am curious as to what the DNR has actually requested. I cannot even find clear decontamination protocals from anyone. Believe me I have tried the only things I am able to find are some inhouse program protocals.

[mallardnwalleye]

Where do I sign up to fight the AIS Hysteria?

[TruthWalleyes]

Where do I sign up to fight the AIS Hysteria?

I believe stickers go into effect starting in January

[LMITOUT]

Please direct me to them.

They are published on the legislature HSOforum early in the legislative year, typically before session starts. Usually find them mixed in with the bill's reference material when a bill number is assigned but the bill number it's tied to can change later in the session depending on if they take the House version or the Senate version. It's a PITA unless you catch them early or want to spend the time backtracking through the maze after it's over.

The language that was proposed by the DNR really isn't very far off from what was passed. It was pretty much rammed right through.

[Mike Walerak]

So if would you rather have a representavie from the DNR (somebody that understands MN's ecology on a scientific level) give guidance on the AIS issues or have the politicians make it up on there own. Bottom line, I find it funny that people want to just roll over and let the invasives spread very rapidly rather than taking a few SIMPLE steps to slow the spread. It really isn't that hard to be compliant. I have all sorts of things I have to do while moving from one river to the next with my job. I found a way to make it work and I'm happy to do it so I am not infesting someone elses area with an introduced species. I also would not appreciate if soemone else brought Spiny water fleas to my area becase they were too lazy to spread there rope out and let it dry before using it in southern mn.

[TruthWalleyes]

So if would you rather have a representavie from the DNR (somebody that understands MN's ecology on a scientific level) give guidance on the AIS issues or have the politicians make it up on there own. Bottom line, I find it funny that people want to just roll over and let the invasives spread very rapidly rather than taking a few SIMPLE steps to slow the spread. It really isn't that hard to be compliant. I have all sorts of things I have to do while moving from one river to the next with my job. I found a way to make it work and I'm happy to do it so I am not infesting someone elses area with an introduced species. I also would not appreciate if soemone else brought Spiny water fleas to my area becase they were too lazy to spread there rope out and let it dry before using it in southern mn.

We as sportsman do want to slow the spread and even stop it, and/or control it....But i think you're fooling yourself if you think the steps we are taking today are actually slowing anything down. I keep looking at new RED arrows in the DNR fishing handbook of new waters constantly becoming infested. I'm not offering solutions here, but can clearly see how futile our current effort is against the spread.

[fishnowworknever]

I could care less about the plug rule, that's easy, however the AIS bait regs are not. 95 percent of catfishermen will never be in full compliance.

I hear ya there DTro, you're not going to be dumping out bullheads or bringing jugs of water to swap out...

I'll admit right here right now, my red tail chubs won't be dumped out or have their water changed at the landing. The minnow bucket never hits the lake water, it's in a cooler with a bubbler so why the hell should I have to dump out the water and replace it? I'll do that at home once I can slowly acclimate them to some fresh filtered water.

The last time I had a AIS inspector tell me I had to dump them out I told him that the bucket never left the cooler. I just laughed and went on my way.