APR 2013?

[flipper]

Everyone does things for their own enjoyment some want big others want food.

Exactly, Have you seen anyone propose changes in the law that would prevent the trophy hunters from shooting a large racked deer?

[PurpleFloyd]

Scott we get it you don't like trophy hunting. I see you have king of cats a few years in a row. You must have different opinion on trophy fish? You let the little cats go to catch the trophy fish. I could care less about a big cat I want to eat them and prefer the small ones. Just a observation I could be completely wrong but a lot of people against apr are muskie or cat guys that want to catch the big ones. Everyone does things for their own enjoyment some want big others want food.

I was thinking that he let the big ones go and kept the smaller ones to eat. Isn't that they way it goes with slot limits?

[Mo Gator]

This conversation seems to now be going off the logic that APR results in hunters being able to only shoot big bucks (this 5 year old talk going on now). A big buck to be a mature 4 or 5 year old, right?

APR requires a buck to have 4 points on one side, that's it. The vast majority of 2.5 year old bucks in MN have this. Put APR in for ONE YEAR, the yearlings live through that year, and the next year there are the same amount of "shooter" bucks in the population. Am I missing something here?

This argument of hunters having to go without venison more often than not because of APR just doesn't make sense. Give APR a chance, within a couple years that forkhorn you usually shoot is now a decent 2.5 yr old 8 point with 20 more pounds of venison on him. That venison is just as good to eat as that last forkhorn you ate... Everyones a winner!!!!

[TruthWalleyes]

Darn right I chase big fish. Trying to beat a 46" flathead and a 61" sturgeon this year. I also get to release those fish when i catch them so i may allow others to enjoy them in the future. Can't catch (Shoot) and release a deer. I realize the fish i am chasing are many people's one and a lifetime fish. However, fishing can be a catch and release sport. Hunting is not. I believe the same opportunity is alive in deer hunting to shoot a buck of a lifetime. The opportunity becomes more abundant the more you travel and spend time chasing that deer. Just like fishing, i can't expect to go to every watering hole and catch a trophy. Every now and then each of those waters will hold a real trophy fish, just like the areas that don't have large amounts of mature deer will produce mature deer in low quantities. When your goal is to shoot a 160" deer on your 80 acres that hasn't seen a 160" deer in 20 years (Course nobody really knows) your best bet is to try hunting somewhere else or keep at it and one day you might be blessed...But we all know that casting in the golf course pond for 20 years is not likely to yield you a 30" walleye.

I don't find these smaller lakes that don't hold lots of trophy fish to be failures. They are just different. Do i get a better feeling in my stomache when i'm fishing a watering hole that is known to hold big fish...Heck yeah - i know the opportunity is there, it's just a matter of effort and luck.

You'll find pictures all over of people grinning ear to ear with small 6pt bucks, does, fawns, whatever...just as you will with people and their fish pictures. Doesn't need to be a near record fish to make the majority happy, though i understand the desire those that have made a goal to catch the near record fish/deer as i share that feeling with catfish/sturgeon as well as other species.

Fishing is pretty good the way it is; so is hunting. Sometimes though, i drive 2+ hours to go to a known trophy fishing destination which is generally created with the right habitat. Habitat that i can't find on my home 80 so to speak.

[Scott K]

Scott we get it you don't like trophy hunting. I see you have king of cats a few years in a row. You must have different opinion on trophy fish? You let the little cats go to catch the trophy fish. I could care less about a big cat I want to eat them and prefer the small ones. Just a observation I could be completely wrong but a lot of people against apr are muskie or cat guys that want to catch the big ones. Everyone does things for their own enjoyment some want big others want food.

I dont eat catfish, if I want table fair, that is what walleye, and panfish are for. I am 100% catch and release on catfish. To each their own, if you want to go catfishing I would prefer you ate the small fish, and released the big fish, but that is up to you. I am not bucking for a law that says you can only eat what I want you to eat.

[muskiemanAD]

I haven't fished for them in a few years. But is there a procted slot on cats? If so are they doing it to produce bigger fish?

[Scott K]

1 over 24inch. They protect the bigger ones, not the little ones.

[SmellEsox]

Scott, I'm sure you are a very rare type of hunter in MN. Taxidermists aren't kept in business by APR guys alone. Most guys display their antlers in some way shape or form whether they are an APR guy or a meat hunter.

You are right, I assume there are plenty of guys in the APR crowd that would use their mature buck harvest to boost their ego, but you cannot deny the same mentality of the many guys who take pride in getting their buck every year. Doesn't matter the size as long as its a buck.

[Scott K]

Racks are fun to look at, but beyond that, they really dont do much more then a small rack, or none at all.

I used to be a rack hunter, and size was something to brag about, now, I am just as happy shooting a 140 doe, as I would be a 8 point buck. In fact, I would rather have the doe. Maybe I am the strange breed, or the outcast, but I am not alone, and I dont like my right to hunt stepped on so some can hang some antlers on their wall, and think it makes them a better person then others.

[SmellEsox]

So, in other words, you are just like us APR guys. We both don't like regulations that limit our opportunities to hunt what we like. Right?

[Scott K]

What regulations have been put on to stop you from shooting a big rack?

[mntatonka]

What regulations have been put on to stop you from shooting a big rack?

the standard response would be "not having APR means guys like you can shoot the small bucks before they get big, which means I can't ever see a big one"

[Scott K]

I personally think if you want to see more big bucks in the woods, stop shooting the big bucks that are in the woods. Then the herd will be so healthy. Since it is so much better to have older deer, and it is healthier for the herd, why not have the point restriction be, that you cant shoot a buck that is bigger then 4 points per side? Then we will have a lot more bigger bucks in the woods, the herd will be so healthy, they will never die. Then when you are in stand, you will be smiling from ear to ear, that you can see so many big deer. Win Win for everyone!

[flipper]

I personally think if you want to see more big bucks in the woods, stop shooting the big bucks that are in the woods. Then the herd will be so healthy. Since it is so much better to have older deer, and it is healthier for the herd, why not have the point restriction be, that you cant shoot a buck that is bigger then 4 points per side? Then we will have a lot more bigger bucks in the woods, the herd will be so healthy, they will never die. Then when you are in stand, you will be smiling from ear to ear, that you can see so many big deer. Win Win for everyone!

Ding Ding Ding....We have another Winner!

[PurpleFloyd]

I personally think if you want to see more big bucks in the woods, stop shooting the big bucks that are in the woods. Then the herd will be so healthy. Since it is so much better to have older deer, and it is healthier for the herd, why not have the point restriction be, that you cant shoot a buck that is bigger then 4 points per side? Then we will have a lot more bigger bucks in the woods, the herd will be so healthy, they will never die. Then when you are in stand, you will be smiling from ear to ear, that you can see so many big deer. Win Win for everyone!

That is what I have been saying. Shoot the smaller "Eater" bucks and leave the big ones to do the breeding and balance the herd.

With trail cams and tech like it is today you can just take a picture of the big one and have a replica made for the wall. Shoot the small ones for sausage.

[Jameson]

Great, so now the the herd went from unbalanced one way, to unbalanced the other way.

[tfran123]

I personally think if you want to see more big bucks in the woods, stop shooting the big bucks that are in the woods. Then the herd will be so healthy. Since it is so much better to have older deer, and it is healthier for the herd, why not have the point restriction be, that you cant shoot a buck that is bigger then 4 points per side? Then we will have a lot more bigger bucks in the woods, the herd will be so healthy, they will never die. Then when you are in stand, you will be smiling from ear to ear, that you can see so many big deer. Win Win for everyone!

It's beyond you, I get it. Pretty darn easy to shoot young bucks and thus the reason to further protect what is the easiest animal in the woods to kill. Without protection you won't many age classes represented beyond 1.5.

Much of your other posts are so far fetched I'm not sure where to start so I'll let you continue on. Enjoy.

[TruthWalleyes]

You guys need to get in your trucks and drive to antlerland.

I travel no less than 2hrs in any direction to deer hunt.

I fish often more than 2hrs away to get to trophy fisheries.

Too much horn lov'n going on here. Time to go FIND your deer and quit looking in your back 40.

[SmellEsox]

Scott and Purple, that is exactly what we are doing now. Everyone shoots the young bucks and the big bucks are left. The only problem is nearly all the young bucks get shot so none make it to maturity. What would be different?

And it is the current regs that account for this age structure. So yes, that is why APR guys want it different.

And please quit with the extreme posts. No APR guy expects it to be like a highly managed game farm in Iowa. But it could be much better than our present population structure. Heck, just having more 2.5 year olds would make it much more interesting in the woods. And don't worry, with the exception of maybe the first year, you'll still get plenty of venison.

[SmellEsox]

TW, why should you have to drive 2 hours, or apply for a special hunt, or go to the SE, or go out of state to find a big deer? At least you are admitting that there is a lack of big deer in many areas.

[B. Amish]

Scott and Purple, that is exactly what we are doing now. Everyone shoots the young bucks and the big bucks are left....

...And please quit with the extreme posts.

[tfran123]

You guys need to get in your trucks and drive to antlerland.

I travel no less than 2hrs in any direction to deer hunt.

I fish often more than 2hrs away to get to trophy fisheries.

Too much horn lov'n going on here. Time to go FIND your deer and quit looking in your back 40.

Really? So you like trophy fish, why? Are they more fun to catch? More of a challenge perhaps?

Could it be possible that that deer hunting is similar in some respects? Yep, it's not catch and release but getting a trophy is more enjoyable to some. Hard to do when some groups of people go into an area and cull the majority of the young bucks. What's so hard for you to understand, you seem like you should grasp this stuff?

I travel two hours to hunt, what's the big deal. Put in my time as well, is it easy? Nope, wouldn't want it to be. And who says its all about the horns? Don't put words in our mouth, perhaps we just want to outsmart a mature buck. That animal might not have a big rack. My last deer was a 220 pound 8 pt and his rack was nothing pretty but sure was more enjoyable to me to chase this 6 year old for two years before I got him.

Try and see the bigger picture and don't paint everyone with the same broad brush.

[mntatonka]

Scott and Purple, that is exactly what we are doing now. Everyone shoots the young bucks and the big bucks are left. The only problem is nearly all the young bucks get shot so none make it to maturity. What would be different?

And it is the current regs that account for this age structure. So yes, that is why APR guys want it different.

And please quit with the extreme posts. No APR guy expects it to be like a highly managed game farm in Iowa. But it could be much better than our present population structure. Heck, just having more 2.5 year olds would make it much more interesting in the woods. And don't worry, with the exception of maybe the first year, you'll still get plenty of venison.

Show me the data that says "nearly all" of the 1.5 year old male deer are getting shot. Nearly all implies somewhere in the 90% range, and statistically that's simply not possible. And I'm not talking about data in other states, or anecdotes from wildlife groups.

Simply put, there's absolutely no data anywhere in Minnesota that can say what percentage of yearling bucks are shot in a year. In order to do that, we'd have to send a tooth sample of every buck harvested, much like we do with bears. With that data, you could make a reasonably accurate calculation of the age classes that are being harvested the most, and what percentage those are of the overall population. So stop saying we shoot nearly all of the 1.5's without APR's in place, it's simply not true.

[BRULEDRIFTER]

and around and around we go...... where will it stop? No one really knows.....

[mntatonka]

Really? So you like trophy fish, why? Are they more fun to catch? More of a challenge perhaps?

Could it be possible that that deer hunting is similar in some respects? Yep, it's not catch and release but getting a trophy is more enjoyable to some. Hard to do when some groups of people go into an area and cull the majority of the young bucks. What's so hard for you to understand, you seem like you should grasp this stuff?

I travel two hours to hunt, what's the big deal. Put in my time as well, is it easy? Nope, wouldn't want it to be. And who says its all about the horns? Don't put words in our mouth, perhaps we just want to outsmart a mature buck. That animal might not have a big rack. My last deer was a 220 pound 8 pt and his rack was nothing pretty but sure was more enjoyable to me to chase this 6 year old for two years before I got him.

Try and see the bigger picture and don't paint everyone with the same broad brush.

Did you get him aged? How do you know he was 6 years old?