Dog Growling

[onthefly]

Guys - hoping to leverage your experience here as I believe hunting dogs are a bit of a unique dog versus regular domestic house pets.

My black lab (15 months old) has started getting grumpy, especially when he's tired. If he's tired, he'll growl at my wife if she goes over and pets him. Last night, he growled and snipped at her when she tried to take away a bed he was chewing. I witnessed and went over, and he growled at me. I promptly and swiftly grabbed his scruff and flipped him on his back, holding him down until he submitted. After that - no issue for the rest of the night.

I advised my wife to do the same. She doesn't want to "hurt him" but I explained that she doesn't have to - just apply enough of a stiff reaction, forcing him to submit so he realizes who the boss is.

My theory is he's getting to that age where he wants to dominate and that's why he's acting out.

Any tips or advice would be greatly appreciated. Obviously I don't want this to become a bigger issue.

[luckydog25]

I am no expert so take it for what its worth, but I had to do the same thing around the same age and I have had no issues at all since. I probably had to do it 3 times between the ages of 1-2. Just like you said, flip them on their back and make them submit. No pain for the dog involved, just letting them know they are not the rulers of the house. I read it in a book a while back, so I tried it. My dog is now 10 years old and is by far the best lab I have owned.

[DrJill]

On behalf of your wife allow me to pick up this frying pan over here and ....

"hunting dogs are a bit of a unique dog versus regular domestic house pets." WRONG, and the start of the problem. You've lowered the standard.

"If he's tired, he'll growl at my wife if she goes over and pets him."

Your a lucky man, this dog would be gone in my home. And if you told me I needed to physically dominate it, in order to pet it, I'd tell you to go live in the garage with your dog. She is afraid of it. And it is living in her home. Who wanted the dog ?

Get hands on physical with it ? That was your advice for your wife ?

I'm sure you'll get alot of excellent advice here in re the dog. You can fix this. I'll help you with your wife.

BUY FLOWERS ...... TONIGHT !!!

Walk in the door and tell her your sorry and the dog WILL learn its place in the pack. That place is behind you, and your place is behind HER. And if that dog dares to curl a lip at her, you'll handle the physical side. If it doesn't stop, the dog is gone. No ifs. No ands. No buts. You won't keep a dog that threatens your wife. Period.

With that established you can move forwad togather to fix things.

[onthefly]

Holy cats! Let me be clear... This post is attempting to get info on how to resolve the problem I described.

My wife knows where she stands and isn't fearful of the dog.

[mwal]

Your pup was testing its place and you showed it you are its leader. Your wife has to do it also the sooner the better. Most dogs are fine once they know their place in your pack if they don't they will establish it themselves. You do not want the dog to do that. Remind her she is not being mean it is what the mama dog would do with an unruly pup. If the pup does not respond to the wife being dominate over it you should get rid of the dog immediately as it may have temperament issue. I have had several labs 2 britts and one lab/golden mix before my current Draht. The lab/golden was put down at 11 mos after advice from a professional trainer and my vet as it did not respond to being dominated by myself or my wife or the trainer. I could not in good conscious let a dog with that temperament go to a unsuspecting family. HE would not only growl but would bite. He was my 2nd dog and I have done the dominance to every pup with every member of my family ever since and it makes a huge difference.

Mwal

[nofishfisherman]

Well I'd say that was a bit of an overreaction from Dr.Jill. Back to reality for a minute.

I've also used the dominance technique with my dog when he was younger. He growled one time when I went to take away a rawhide he was chewing on. I immediately put him on his back and held his muzzle closed and gave him a firm growly NO. He has never growled since at me or my wife.

Now when he knows he's in trouble or doesn't want to give something up he'll make a sort of weird throaty sound but is not a growl. Its more of a large sigh knowing he's busted as he starts sulking at the same time.

While flipping him on his back is effective there are other ways to help him learn his place in the pack. With most of us guys we tend to take a lead on training the dogs so they learn to look at us as the master. If you can get your wife involved in training it should help the dog to see her as another master. She should learn to be firm with the dog but it doesn't have to be physical. You can be firm with a dog and put it in its place with tone of voice and body language as well.

When my dog was going through basic obedience and various other training when he was young my wife and I were both involved heavily. We both attended training classes and sessions and we both handled the dog equally. Oddly enough in all the classes we've done we've never run into another couple who trained the dog together. By doing it together the dog learned right away that my wife and I are a team and both of us are ahead of him on the pecking order. One of the things we both made sure to do on a regular basis was to take away the dogs food bowl during a meal, and take away toys or bones he was chewing on in order for him to not become possessive of things. He learned all good things come from either my wife or myself and they can be given or taken away at any time.

[Todd Caswell]

I have no idae what your plans are for the dog or what type of training program you are following but a structured OB and field training goes along ways in teaching the dog who is in charge from the begining, and by the time they get through there yard work there should be no question in there mind who's running the show. Never had to do the " roll them on there back"

[Eric Wettschreck]

Different dogs I've had go through this stage right around 13 weeks and again at right around the 14-15 month old time frame. Establishing dominance right away is the key. It's their version of the terrible 2's.

The flip on the back thing works very well. Sometimes all it takes is grabbing them by the scruff, giving them a stern "NO", and keep holding onto the scruff and do a staredown with them. Make sure you have your stern "Dad look" and stare him right in the eyes until he submits. He will submit. If not, you have a problem on your hands but from the sounds of things this is normal behavior that you're doing the right thing in correcting.

[onthefly]

Very helpful, guys - thanks. Sounds like doing some more obedience drills in the garage with my wife involved would help, along with continuing to 0 tolerance rule on growling. He does mind her on obedience, which I guess is why we never thought her drilling him on OB was critical.

From a training standpoint, he went to a pro for a 10 week intermediate program. Sent him mainly because he had a severely hard mouth. He's been through formal OB. This is my first lab, but I like what I see so far. He's going to be awfully fun to hunt with.

Thanks again.

[TylerS]

Thanks...uh...Dr. Jill, for that rousing reaction. Really puckered my butthole...

Growling, and aggressiveness in general, are zero tolerance in my household. I grew up with a growly, sadistic, oaf of a corgi (don't laugh...you'd know those are appropriate adjectives had you known her) and I was bound and determine to not propagate the same negative characteristics when I got my wirehairs.

I knew that wirehairs had a tendency for surliness. This was a big fear going into it. But I was determined I could have a friendly, unaggressive dog regardless.

The first order of business was just as Todd Coswell suggested: a strict OB regimen transferring into hunting training. Keeping Remy busy was good for him and for me. It helped give his life purpose and it bonded him to my wife and I (we train together often, even to this day). We used to swap spots on occasion just so that Remy got used to taking commands from both of us.

The second order of business was socialization. I took Remy absolutely everywhere, and let everyone touch, pet, poke and prod him. This was equally important. Having a dog that sits at home all day and only sees you can set up bad situations, especially when strangers show up.

So training and socializing are two things that, if you haven't already done so, you should begin immediately.

The third is punishment. For every action, there is an opposite and disproportionately harsh reaction from you. Take this to heart. While Fido may seem awful sorry for piddling on the rug or chewing your favorite pair of flip-flops after you wag your finger and say "Bad dog," aggressiveness and growling deserve something that will stick. My wife is a sweet, gentle, kind and loving soul, but if she sees a dog posturing, she turns into the Queen of Hades. Fire and Brimstone flow from her mouth, and the dogs quake at the very sight. If they could gouge out their eyes just so they didn't see her, they would. Some even try to invert themselves by shoving their heads as far up their bungs as possible.

This is as it should be. Dogs will always test you, and you must be ready to correct. But with something as serious and important as aggressiveness, you must do your darndest to make sure that's a lesson that won't need repeating. Lord knows, all it takes is one nip at a kid for you to be in a courtroom and your retriever to be sent to the great duck slough in the sky.

When he was a young pup, he growled at my wife as she was going into the fridge to get supper read. I immediately (and almost instinctively) grabbed him by the scruff of his neck, held him at eye level with me, shook him hard and growled "NO GROWLING!" He went limp, and set him down. No problems after.

To this day, if I catch him with aggressive body language around strangers or other dogs, one look from me and he knows he's in trouble. I'm on him swiftly and don't hold back dolling punishment. There is NO gray area. If he growls or postures, my reaction is immediate. This happens whenever, where ever it needs to.

Thankfully, that is very, very, very infrequently. In fact, I can't remember the last time I've had to do that.

[setterguy]

Dogs are pretty tough to hurt...stronger than dam horses I swear. Dog has to understand that any sign of aggression is unacceptable. However you decide to make him understand is up to you.

I would put it to my wife this way ...Either you have to show the dog that growling and "nipping" is never OK, or he will attempt it on someone else eventually and maybe be put down.

OB pronto. Have her do it. Its amazing how fast the dog will start to respond to her. My wife started running our dog every morning and now he will lay by her if given the chance, where as three months ago he followed me everywhere.

[luckydog25]

Any update on your pups behavior onthefly?

[gspman]

Quote:

And if that dog dares to curl a lip at her, you'll handle the physical side.

IMHO, the missus will need to do the disciplining, not the hubby. The dog is challenging her and she needs to assert her dominance. If the hubby makes a correction it might help - or it might not. The dog already knows and respects the hubby's place in the pack. It's her place that he's challenging.

And obedience means obedience. I have been to some OB classes where some dogs needed a very strong come to Jesus "discussion" but their owners were too sissy to do it. I actually felt bad for the dog & owners. The dog was on a path to be a poor pet because the owner had humanized the dog and couldn't bring themselves to make the desperately needed correction. Don't be afraid to send a stern message.

[onthefly]

Guys - an update. Haven't been back in a while.

After the scenario I explained above, we haven't seen any other signs of aggression. My wife has started taking him to the park and running him. Also, she'll flip him on his back and make him submit - even if just playfully.

Honestly, I think my swift reaction when he got snippy did it.

I really appreciate the info, guys. Thanks for the help