novice in need of some advice from experienced fishers

[Josh_F]

ok i live in northern eagle river wi, and have very limited ability to travel for fishing and hope to find some 1 who may know enough to help me become a successful ice fisher

first the only lakes i can travel to eagle lake, scattering rice, otter, and the T docks (not sure on its real name, and i cant really do the run and gun method especially late in the season as i only have a hand auger and more then 5 or 6 holes is exhausting

i am planning on getting a cheap Showdown Ice Troller (the original not the 2.0, or 5.6") as my funding is very limited and even the $160.00 price tag is almost pushing past means.

i know basic principles (sand bars, weeds, stricter, drop-offs) but have never had any luck seance i began fishing solo.

so before the season truly starts im asking for advice, (color, jigs,(never really used these)-> artificial baits for jigging(ie. 1" fish fry, waxies, maggots, shiners)), minnows for the tip-ups (crappie, shiners, fatheads, exc)

i would describe myself as a wanting unlucky novice even after 3 years i get skunked 80% of the time, ill spend 8hrs a day 4 days a week on the ice and maybe catch 2 fish a day and there normally 4-6" wormy perch

[ice_medic]

Dont worry about it Josh. It takes some time and getting to know the lakes. I have been doing this for over 20 years now and I grew up on the lakes and i am still learning the ropes. It sounds like you have a good understanding of it so far though. Talk to the bait shops around. They want to sell bait so they ask questions to people coming in and pass that information on to you. There are also numerous people on here with good advise too. As for bait and jigs and everything else just start with what you can get and trial and error helps. if you have any questions feel free to ask or pm me and i can help out with what i can

[theminnow]

What kind of fish are you targetting? Crappies, Northern, Walleye, etc?

[Josh_F]

gills and crappies mostly, but maybe some walleyes as well

[scott b]

There are Books out there to learn everything you need to know. Indispensable for me are Hooked on Ice Fishing Volume 2 and 3. Shows you per fish what they do under the ice from first ice to ice out.

You HAVE to read these books! They're great tools for searching pan fish(2) and game fish (volume three) The author is Tom Gruenwald.

It's Published in 1999 but the fish don't know that.

[scott b]

Oh and Welcome to HSO!

[theminnow]

Sent you a message, let me know if I can be of any other help.

[Surface Tension]

2 fish a day when your after Gills or Crappies means your in the either in the wrong spot or doing something very wrong. Wrong spot is more then likely.

So how do you find the right spot? Getting to know your home waters helps and it can take time. When you get a chance to get out on early ice (3") without snow cover, you'll be able to see the weeds through the ice. Follow the weed bed out till it ends and the depth starts to drop. Up tight where the weed bed ends is a good place to start. If it has a decent drop thats a good place for crappies too. Or maybe your into a big flat big weed bed with some good sized open pockets, those are another good place to start.

What kind of hand auger do your own and is it cutting good?

Even the slowest of hand augers with a good blade aren't that much work but if the blades are dull they need to be sharpened or get a new set. So lets say the ice is 3-6" thick. No reason you couldn't drill a quick 10 holes spread out in a 100' circle. If your after Gills don't sit in one spot for more then 10 minutes without any action. Make a move to another hole. Keep moving and when you've exhausted all 10 holes there should be a voice in your head that saying "I'm moving to this other spot I saw on the way out". Get there and drill another 10 holes and go to work. Eventually your either going to be one heck of a hole driller or your going to be getting into fish.

Those spots among the weed beds you found and marked with a mound of ice chips in early ice will hold Gills all winter long.

You might have to make small moves to stay in vertical weeds but you won't have to go far. That is just one way to get on gills and crappies.

What to use?

There are plenty of threads on hot gill and crappies baits.

Start out tipping your jigs with maggies or waxies and as you gain confidence move to plastics.

When I started this reply I had in the back of my mind maybe your in the right spot but your not detecting the bite. Not having a flasher to show you targets is a handicap especially for someone starting out. Side Note: I started out without a flasher 4 decades ago and I used a spoon auger. So if I did it so can you. For your price range you could get into an entry level MarCum which are very good sounders.

Back to the bite. That bite could be as lite as a fly landing on the tip of your rod and it could go to zero resistance if your fishing under the school.

Detecting the lite biters. I think you should start with a neutral buoyancy bobber, the smallest you can get by with. 2-4 lb mono to reduce coil. Don't over due the action. Slow lifts and slow fell falls at most. A lot of time just making the bobber vibrate on the surface then let it set. Again using a flasher helps determine the mood.

On clear and shallow lakes I'll put away the flasher and brake out the camera. Not only can I see the mood of the fish but it helps finding those pockets inside the weed beds.

Really with that set up and a waxie, if the bobber even twitches, set the hook.

Spring bobbers are another way and a lot of guys went from bobber to the spring.

I use nothing. Well I do use feel and sight. The feel I can magnify with a slight lift and that lift to a gill or crappie is their dinner swimming up and away and triggers them to hit. I use sight on the drop. Jigs are lite and before they take the slack out on the drop there is a coil in the water. That coil is like a hair trigger and and the slightest nip will be detected.

Thats enough for now , some of it you might have already read and some might be something new. Use it and Good Luck.

[Bass Whacker]

I would start by concentrating on smaller structure or smaller lakes in general its alot easier to cover those areas with less holes. I was in the same boat as you as far as a hand auger and no electronics until last year but if you put in the time you can make it work. You should keep me posted on ice condition in your area, I'm down in Fond du Lac but if you get walkable ice before me i might take a trip up there. We could get out and punch a bunch of holes with the gas auger and try and find you some fish.

[Josh_F]

ok well ill streamline the exact questions i have, and streamline the info i have....

until recently (winter of 09) ive always gone with friends or family friends who knew the lakes and had good flashers or sonar, so while i know how they work and once im on fish i do ok, not good, but ok i never really learned to read the fish patterns on my own.

i have an extremely limited budget so minimizing my spending on jigs. bait and gear is kinda necessary

1. jigs (nothing specific, only generalized(i.e. Swedish pimple, Diamond eyes, exc...)

2. jig size/weight 12, 14, 16, 1/32, 1/16 exc...?

3. $160.00 ShowDown Ice Troller... is it worth it? id prefer a good selective zoom flasher, but i cant afford the thing (will be my first electronic ever)

4. artificial baits for pan fish? 1" gulp fish fry, gulp alive waxies/maggots, gulp crappie nibbles, gulp alive 1" minnows, exc...

5. would a homemade dough bait work at all, and would anyone be willing to share there recipe

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as for the info i have.....

i personaly have not scouted any of these lakes w/ electronics as i dont have any at all

my fishing in winter is basically drill a few holes where i think there may be weeds or a rock bar and try my luck

all the lakes i can access eagle 15'avrage max 30' holes, otter 10' -12', scattering rice 12' max spring-fed, and the t-docks (haven't fully scouted) are all on the eagle river chain. so there over fished for sport fish (walleye, northern, and muskies) so i try to stick with pan fish (but i do set up 2 tip-ups for walleyes and northers). all the chain is cloudy, 4'-6' visibility at its best. so sight fishing even on early ice is difficult

all the areas i know are my spring and summer spots (still not very productive takes all day to limit out if im lucky)no electronics at all(old POS 12' aluminum w/ a 9.5hp thats been sunk twice this year by weekend warriors. while i was in it fishing the shallows)

the auger/s i use are 6" and 8" strikemaster drill augers that both need new blades.

i have/use an older clam 2000 w/ a heavy custom base(quick set-up/break-down (1/2" plywood w/ old child skies as runners) and in old 94 Polaris that i picked up last year for $50 and rebuilt the engine... so i am trying to get some working gear.

as for combos i use a 24" microlite (hyper sensitive comparable to a spring bobber) w/ a shimano open-face ice real, line (i use a 3# fused ice line that is almost as thin as a human hair) and a 36" med action with a shimano ice real and 8# fused line equal to 2# with a spring bobbber.

[Surface Tension]

The Showdown Ice Troller wouldn't be my primary sounder.

Considering your budget I'd look for a used Marcum LX-1 or Vex FL8 SLT.

You should be able to pick one up for around $150. Be sure the ducer is good on the MarCum and that the FL8 is SLT(interference rejection). A step up would be the MarCum LX 3 and Vex FL8 SE.

[Josh_F]

thankfully, maybe not the smartest idea, i may be borrowing the extra $200 from my father and pay him back over the winter, so i could possibly afford a vex fl-8se, Marcum VX-1 Pro,or Humminbird ICE-35.

i like the bird for its multi target zoom, but which would be best for a novice to electronics?

[basssmasher*]

I have a Marcum vx-1 and love it. simple to use and easy to read.. that being said, I fished with a Bird -55 last yr and LOVED it so I can imagine a bird-35 would be just as good as a Vex or marcum, the bird will be a lot quieter

[Tom7227]

Go here and buy one of the kits. You will get a decent bargain and a lot of variety in the jigs.http://outdoorprostore.com/products-page/ice-fishing-tackle/ Buy a big tub of waxies as they will last at least a month. If you get out as often as you indicated you'll need a lot of them. If you can try and fish for a bit with someone with a camera. You will see how quickly a fish takes in the bait and spits it back out and you will also see what happens with your rig while that is happening. Most people can't believe it is as fast and subtle as it really is until they see if either in clear water or by camera.I learned from a friend who told me that if the small bobber even starts to move in the hole set the hook. He had four crappies on the ice before I even had my rig down the hole.

[JigginIsLife]

First thing, how do you think the majority did it before flashers hit the main market...??? Lake contour maps, I would start with looking at a contour map of a lake. If you are trying to find the gills, start shallow, and work your way out, if your looking for crappies, start deep and work shallow. When approaching a new lake i always go on the mn dnr HSOforum to download the lake map and mark places on the map that i would like to try. Mid lake humps, steep inclines and declines, flowing water (but dont confuse that for safe ice).

Dont waste your money on a crappy flasher, hsolist and other places have flashers for sale for pretty cheep, i have been seeing the fl-8's on hsolist going for between 125-200 with the majority going on the cheaper side.

Hand augers are exactly what you put into them, good blades and well taken care of will suit you through the whole winter, might have to change blades but its recognizing when/if you are pushing extreamly hard the blades are dull and you should change them or haveing them sharpend by someone who knows whats going on, an off pitch blade is as much fun as banging your head against a brick.

[Jim Uran]

Id go with a Hbird, solid units with a big bright display. Since you know what you have been doing and what hasnt worked for you, you can take tips from the forums and go from there. Scroll through and look

for helpful hints on locating fish. Also look on coming to some HSO get togethers. Alexandria first ice event looks great for someone who is just getting into fishing. ill be there and would love to help

[basssmasher*]

Jim when is the Alex get together?? I'm only 45 miles away and would LOVE to go and meet some of you people and get info from you all as well.. I do just fine open water fishing from shore (no boat) but I love ice fishing even more.. most of my success has been stumbled upon luck in the winter

[Jim Uran]

December 14th and 15th.

Look it up in the events forum!

Would love to meet you

[scott b]

Again..... Educate yourself BEFORE you get on the ice. Lots of tips and tricks in books to get you on the spot.

You could waste 8 hrs. on the ice with no clue of what to do... OR ...you could sit down and read a small portion of a book for an hour to give you an idea of what areas hold what.

People have been in your same situation. They put in allot of time and effort, and eventually thought they should write a book on their findings. Some of these people are now sought after guides.

[scott b]

And I agree with jigginislife. Get a good map, and study what you have learned from the books.

[dan z]

Jeez I'm not a novice at ice fishing and I learned something from readingthese replies.

[Josh_F]

im glad my local library had "bluegills DVD" ice fishing secrets, Ice Fishing: The Ultimate Guide, and BLUEGILLS! Winter Fishing Cutting Edge Ice Fishing

now all i gatta do is find an hbird ICE 35, Vexilar FL8, or Marcum VX1 for under $150, my father backed out of our deal when he had seen that the cheapest new unit (hbird) was still $300 w/s&h...

his exact quote was "why would anyone want to spend $300 on a fishfinder for ice fishing"

the really funny thing is just this summer he spent close to $10,000 on 2 new Lowrance HDS-8 GEN2 w/ Full north America (all USA except Hawaii plus Canada).. so maybe ill just rip one of them off his boat for the ice season.... i really dislike the grumpy old codger sometimes

[JigginIsLife]

Like i said, keep your eyes open on C-L, check every morning noon and night if you can. Personal preferance is the fl8 se, ultra pack. I am not a fan of the genz pack just becuase i dont like the blue box it comes in, i think it slides around too much. But keep your eyes open, there are deals to be had. Wish we would have connected about a month ago, im looking to sell and upgrade, but a buddy has it spoken for. But i hope it all works out in the end for ya.

[Josh_F]

dose any1 have an honest review of the "Lowrance X67C Ice Machine"? i never even looked at Lowrance for an ice flasher/finder, and while just cursing around amazon i came across it and noticed it had both an arc setting and a flasher setting, but cant find any real reviews on its quality and useability.

i would like to hear what real fishers would rate it next to a vex or Marcum or Humminbird

but as a person with 0 loyalty to any company as of yet i am open to any electronic as long as they fall in my ever shrinking price range and work well

[Zenit]

dose any1 have an honest review of the "Lowrance X67C Ice Machine"? i never even looked at Lowrance for an ice flasher/finder, and while just cursing around amazon i came across it and noticed it had both an arc setting and a flasher setting, but cant find any real reviews on its quality and useability.

i would like to hear what real fishers would rate it next to a vex or Marcum or Humminbird

but as a person with 0 loyalty to any company as of yet i am open to any electronic as long as they fall in my ever shrinking price range and work well

I had one, and I liked it enough to upgrade to the Elite-5 ice machine last year. I usually keep 2-3 around at one time, and right now the Elite-5 and Vexliars FL-20 and FL-22 are the current residents of my "stable."

I always thought that the x67c got kind of a bad rap around here, mostly centering around the visibility of the LCD in bright light and the nanosecond longer it supposedly takes than the Vexis, 'Birds, and Marcum products that some folks view as being not "real-time." Personally, it wasn't all that noticeable to me, and I don't recall ever missing any fish because of it. But others mileage might vary, I suppose. Battery life on it was terrific, and I never had the unit freeze up as some have said (fishing in -20 or below, some reported that the display would fade or quit; never happened to me, and I used it plenty of times in such weather.)

I've sen a few of these on the used market for around $100 - that's a super deal, IMHO. I'd much rather have an x67c than for example a Showdown, which I've tried a couple of times and never found it all that useful. Just my opinion, others seem to like it. Just didn't do much for me.