Learning Crankbaits

[JohnMickish]

OK, I think I found the root of all the problems going on for you that night. Casting lightweight cranks with a baitcaster in the dark is a recipe for disaster. They are lightweight and can easily cause a birdsnest on your reel, and that will lead to the line snapping.

Cranking down the adjustments to keep the birdsnests from happening will cause lots of drag, thus preventing the lure from being cast a decent distance.

The lure only being cast a short ways keeps the lure from diving.

Having things like leaders on your lures can easily foul up the hooks on the cast, thus preventing the lure from diving.

I don't know if it was windy that night or not, but if wind is there it can really make casting light lures a royal pain.

[amateurfishing]

Tony roach was talking about tickling docks with that particular crank bait because

You can throw it next to a dock in shallow water and it will just go 1 to 2 feet down.

That's all that particular crank is designed to do.

if you want to go deeper, choose a diff6-11fterent style of crank bait.

Simple as that.

***************************************

then why does packaging say 4-8 ft or 6-11 ft?

gee, im more confused now

[amateurfishing]

Heres the problem. To get a 5-7 shadrap to dive to its max you have to cast it out about 200 feet and reel really fast. Reality is you can only cast it out a short distance and by the time it dives a few feet it is back to the boat even with your rod tip down. You will need to use deeper divers if you want to get deeper.

somehow i never saw this post b4, at only casting 20-30 feet and it stayed on surface. im sure we did not cast far enuff and reel fast enuff. should have switched to bobber/leach or rattlin raps as stated above (i have caught real nice bass on rattlin raps).

oh well, im not mad, was just real frustrated thought everyone was using those cranks but obviously not the case at all, just some of the trollers were, anyhoo my wife was right (the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a difft result) and i should have just switched to rattlin raps/bobber/jig.

hopefully next time i will be farther ahead in the learning curve or have enough sense to just change. when u troll with big motor @ 2 mph do you hold on to rod or rod holder? how do u know its hittin bottom if in holder?

[amateurfishing]

OK, I think I found the root of all the problems going on for you that night. Casting lightweight cranks with a baitcaster in the dark is a recipe for disaster. They are lightweight and can easily cause a birdsnest on your reel, and that will lead to the line snapping.

Cranking down the adjustments to keep the birdsnests from happening will cause lots of drag, thus preventing the lure from being cast a decent distan

The lure only being cast a short ways keeps the lure from diving.

Having things like leaders on your lures can easily foul up the hooks on the cast, thus preventing the lure from diving.

I don't know if it was windy that night or not, but if wind is there it can really make casting light lures a royal pain.

yes, 4 birds nests that nite and never had one b4 all year, went thru entire spool of line and by end of nite did not have anything left for decent cast....and yes treble hooks everyone including 1 stuck in my shoe that i just had to give up on getting out till next day. i spent half the nite cleaning birds nests, re tying snap swivels, and undoing caught treble hooks between me and my wife, then u add boats flyin by and us in ours rockin away in the dark each time one goes by i had one H_ll of a time tryin to accomplish anything that nite!

[Borch]

As far as trolling either holding the rod or in the holder will work. You'll see the rod tip bump, bump, bump if you're hitting bottom. Then just reel in some line until it runs free.

[MattL]

Sounds like you are getting on the right track. As far as casting goes, I like to use a 6'-6" med action spinning rod with 6-8 lb braid to increase casting distance. A small crosslock snap helps to quickly change out lures.

Personally, fishing crank baits is my favorite way to catch walleyes, especially on shallow water. But be careful once you start having success and the bug hits because you will accumulate hundreds of cranks before you even realize it.

[delcecchi]

I can't imagine trying to cast a shad rap with a baitcaster. I don't think I could do it, they just aren't heavy enough. And I don't think baitcasting at night would be much fun either (and I have used baitcasters for over 55 years.)

Get a spinning rod for baits like that. And I find the glass shad raps which are plastic instead of balsa cast a little better.

[Walleyehooker]

Experince and feel will tell you where your lure is running. Remember ML is clear and fish will come up to get it. You can put your rod in a holder but I prefer to hold mine for a couple of reasons. One is to feel how the crank is running and feel if you pick up weeds etc. Second os so I can pump and pause the rod occasionally as that can trigger stikes. You want to run a light enough action rod to be able to feel the crankbiat.

[Kyhl]

do not use a steel leader.

tie direct or use a fluorocarbon leader.

That may help you to get the lure to start diving correctly.

Lose the snap swivel too.

The lure should have a snap ring on the nose. By snap ring I mean something like the ring that holds your car keys together, only smaller, about a 1/8-3/16 inch in diameter. Sometimes you have to add them. Tie the line to the snap ring. Tieing the line to the snap ring instead of the lure allows the lure to act more freely.

Pick up a pair of snap ring pliers. The pliers will make it easier to add rings to lures that are missing the rings.

This goes for ice fishing too. Add the rings to all ice fishing lures.

[Kyhl]

yes i was and this is what i was using #5 (4-8ft) & 7 (5-11ft) & we only fished 5-8 ft water the whole night

In your pictures, this should run in order from deepr to shallow. The longer the bill, the deeper it will run. The bead in the front of the bill on the first lure will help it get down faster because it weighs the nose of the lure down, pinting the lure down.

I use the exact same lure as your first pic to troll on Vermilion. 100 feet back and that lure will run 20 feet deep. Trolling, not casting. Casting would be lucky to get 6 feet deep because there isn't enough line out there for it to run down.

The last lure will probably only run a couple feet down when casted and retrieved.

If any of these lures are running on the surface it usually means that something ins fouled. I don't like casting them because of how often they foul. Most common for me is for the rear treble to cross over the line while it flies through the air causing the lure to run backwards or perpendicular.

When I troll them at night I set them next to the boat and let them float away from me to keep them from fouling in the air. I don't cast them at night.

[Kyhl]

Tony roach was talking about tickling docks with that particular crank bait because

You can throw it next to a dock in shallow water and it will just go 1 to 2 feet down.

That's all that particular crank is designed to do.

if you want to go deeper, choose a diff6-11fterent style of crank bait.

Simple as that.

***************************************

then why does packaging say 4-8 ft or 6-11 ft?

gee, im more confused now

I read those numbers has how deep the lure will run when trolled 100 feet behind the boat.

casting will probably be half that or less.

[Kyhl]

when u troll with big motor @ 2 mph do you hold on to rod or rod holder? how do u know its hittin bottom if in holder?

You can use a rod holder during the day. Just keep an eye on it.

I do not recommend a rod holder at night. Hold on to the rod because you can't see it bend when a fish is hooked. I use 20# braid and a 20" walleye is not big enough to pull drag at that speed so you won't hear anything. Without sight or sound you have to rely on touch.

Holding the rod does give the advantage of adjusting your depth to follow the contour of the bottom by either raising/lowering the rod tip or reeling/backreeling to change the amount of line out.

[CaptainMusky]

Keys to night fishing cranks for walleyes:

1) leave the baitcaster at home unless trolling

2) troll in less than 10 feet of water (depending on weed growth)

3) cast the lure out as far as you can, then let out more line.

4) if bait hits the bottom, reel up some line

5) troll about 2mph or faster

6) cover ground, dont go back and forth over same area unless you start catching fish in a confined area

Several things caused your issues. The baitcaster is a nightmare at night and caused all your backlash issues. Those lures should never be cast with a baitcaster especially at night. Retrieve speed. Undoubtedly the baitcaster had a slow retrieve speed and combined with short cast length the lures never reached proper depth.

Bummer you didnt have a successful weekend. Throw that lure behind your boat 100 feet and troll troll troll. 10 feet is far too close especially for walleyes and the lures will never dive down.

[h8go4s]

Lots of good advice from Kyhl, but one correction. It's not a snap ring, it's a split ring you tie to, and you need a split ring pliers.

Snap Ring

Split ring

Being an arthritic geezer with failing eyesight, I favor using a good snap (not a snap swivel, just a snap) on cranks so I don't have to tie knots in the boat under adverse condition. Use a good crosslock snap, not the brass snap shown in your photo earlier in this thread. Those are not reliable, especially if you get a pike going crazy at boatside. Bye-bye pike and crankbait.

Cross lock snap

Good luck.

Coastlock snaps are even better, but hard to find. My source for those is Marine General in Duluth.

[mojogunter]

If you want to catch more fish with cranks you need to know exactly where your bait is at all times. That is done with counter reels, and a precision trolling book. You can do it by feel, by letting out line until you feel it hit bottom, and reel some line in until you don't feel bottom anymore. If you are fishing rocks there is a chance you get snagged and lose your lure and at $5-12 a pop I like knowing where it is before it hits bottom. Look at this chart and see how much line you need to let out to get a 7 shad rap to dive to the depth you need. If you had out 10' of line it should dive to 4.5'. The shallow shad rap with 10' out would dive just a little deeper than 2'. Last year at his time we were pulling #5 shad raps and we were letting out 120' of line fishing in 14' of water. If we were running a #7 then we would run 110' of line.

[Kyhl]

It's not a snap ring, it's a split ring you tie to, and you need a split ring pliers.

Snap Ring

Split ring

Thanks. I thought I might have messed that up.

[Chumba]

The Raps that I buy always have the split ring right out of the box. i know other brands may not, but int hose pics about the second and third bait look like rappals to me. Is it common to buy these without the split ring?

Also I agree about the snap. It is sooooo easy to just use a quality snap for changing out the lures quickl instead of retying every time.

[Jaron_K]

I generally use rapala brand divers. I never do look at the box to see what series they are but the typical "wally diver types." On the box it says 10-15 ft and when I troll I have no problems getting it down to that 15 depth. The key i believe is you need smaller diameter line. Maybe trying some fireline or braided line that will sink. Most mono will actually float. I usually run 6-8 lb fireline when i want to hit those depths of what they are intended. I will also use my baitcaster with 20lb power pro which has a very thin diameter that helps. When casting with the baitcaster it will only go down about 7-8 ft with the rod tip just off the water but trolling i usually hit the 10-12 ft range.

One other thing to try out this time of year(walleyes) is three way rigging with rapalas to hit the 20-30ft depth. Big and slow is the way to go:)

[CaptainMusky]

The Raps that I buy always have the split ring right out of the box. i know other brands may not, but int hose pics about the second and third bait look like rappals to me. Is it common to buy these without the split ring?

Also I agree about the snap. It is sooooo easy to just use a quality snap for changing out the lures quickl instead of retying every time.

The shallow shad raps, countdowns and "original" floating rapalas typically do not have split rings on them. Husky jerks, shad raps, xraps, minnow raps, etc typically do have split rings.

[JohnMickish]

Believe it or not guys, but if a lure does not come with a snap ring on it, adding one will change the action it has, just like taking one off does. Sometimes this helps, but most of the time it kills the action the factory has built into the lure.

If you tie diectly to the lure, if you tie it tight with say a palomar knot, that too will change the action vs. tieing it on with a loop knot.

You may think it's splitting hairs, but sometimes it's the smallest thing that makes the difference between the front of the boat catching all the fish with the same lure and you catching nothing.

Use a small crosslock snap to attach your crank to the line, it's fast and easy, and the crosslock dosent add enough weight to alter the lures behavior. If you are worried about twist, tie a small barrel swivel 10' up the line, this will also add an audible click to your reeling so you know you are getting close, this can be very important at night if the fish is staying down.

[amateurfishing]

LOL im laughing so hard now i dont think i could have fouled this up any more if i tried intentionally....looks like i have some work & practice time to get in. anyway the wife had a great time & thats whats most important to me & for looking at the bright side i dont think things can get any worse fishing tactically speaking and my success rate can only get better thx again for all the info, keep it coming & hope to see you on the water

[CaptainMusky]

Believe it or not guys, but if a lure does not come with a snap ring on it, adding one will change the action it has, just like taking one off does. Sometimes this helps, but most of the time it kills the action the factory has built into the lure.

100% true. If I get a lure that comes with a split ring on it, I leave it. If I get one that comes without, I leave it without.

Lures without split rings I used to tie on. I noticed that you had to pay close attention to the position of the knot because if it was pointed to one side or the other, action get fouled up. That happens easy. Jerk on a weed, miss a strike, the knot likely moved.

Sooo, I began using snap swivels. I like them better than ball bearing swivels because they add more weight and that can affect action as well.

I use the same snaps if the lure has a split ring on it or not. At night I want things simple. Tying knots sucks in the dark.

[hanson]

There really is a variety of solid, solid information in this thread.

Crankbait fishing doesn't have to be a mystery but there are plenty of do's and don'ts that seam like common knowledge to me but probably aren't to a beginner. That isn't a big deal, we all had to learn at some point.

And I'll admit, there is a bit of a learning curve to get you from "never have done this" to "I can catch fish consistantly on a lake". And then there is the next step in the learning curve that takes years of trolling, staring at a depthfinder, and playing with lures fishing on different lakes, different structures, depths, etc, etc.

Guys like Borch for example, who have fished this way for longer than I know... can tell you what crankbaits to run when, at what depth, with how much line out, at what speed, time of year, etc, etc. You name it... these trollers have an answer for you.

This truly is an artform that takes many years of experience with your equipment to perfect. This can only be learned by doing some research, and then implementing and experimenting, and then hopefully having a buddy or two or a forum like this that can give you feedback on what you are doing. You then go out and repeat, repeat, and repeat. And then when that lake you know drops 1-2' in a summer and your weedlines move, you learn it all over again. Ha ha! Like right now I'm relearning this.

But beyond just knowing how to run your equipment, you have to learn or understand where the fish are. I have a perfect example from last weekend where I was running the outside weed edge with cranks that were cruising over the tops of weeds and occasionally connecting with them. Seamed great... thats not where the majority of the fish were though. Connected with a friend that let me know the fish were on the inside weededge and shallower on this lake. Doh! I thought... I was talking about that move but didn't do it. So in regards to weeds... you have the outside edge, the inside edge, or over the top if the weeds have laid down. Lots of places to check!!

Seriously... if I'm trying to learn crankbait trolling... I'd find a lake with a good nightime walleye bite over a sand or gravel bottom. Something where you can troll cleanly without having to worry about weeds or rocks. I like trolling rocks as well but you are looking for some digging and banging occassionally which will result in hung up cranks which you have to go and free or break off.

I would not recommend trying to learn crank trolling on planer boards over submerged treetops, not going to happen.

While everyone has an opinion, I would get yourself a linecounter reel of some sort (I like the Daiwa Sealines or Accudepths) and spool it with 20lb braid line (I'm liking Sufix 832 but have used Spiderwire Stealth). This is where it gets tricky as you should fill the spool which requires some mono backing to accomplish with a standard spool of line.

Once spooled up, tie directly to the braid line a Crosslock snap which others have talked about. Or I personally prefer a Duolock snap (similar but a bit different). You don't need a leader or don't need a snap swivel. Snap swivels kill the action of a crankbait IMO.

I take all the split rings off my stickbaits (Rapala Floater, Husky Jerk, Smithwick Rogue, Storm Thunderstick, etc), I leave them all on my shad rap type baits with plastic bills where the eyelet is in the bill of the bait. You really need the split ring there to even connect a snap to.

Something nobody has talked about is tuning your crankbait. A crankbait that is out of tune will pull to one side or another, and if its bad enough... blow out of the water even. All you have to do is slightly bend the eyelet in the opposite direction the crank is going to get it back into tune. May take a few tries but you want it trackins straight and diving down, not pulling off to one side or another.

The thing is you really need to develop confidence in a number of your cranks and then expand from there. A lake like Mille Lacs for example... I really like a Smithwick Super Rogue in Lazer Craw on those dark nights. If the moon isn't up and I'm trolling in less than 10', I'm tying that on. On a number of other lakes, I'm really liking Rapala's Yellow Perch and Purpledescent color patterns. I'd honestly love Rapala to make the Husky Jerk in Purpledescent... still waiting.

Once you got the basics down... you then have trolling over the weed tops, trolling weed edges, s-turning, pauses, trolling w/ suspended baits, etc, etc...

The bottom line... trolling IS an art that takes a lot of time and experience to master.

It shouldn't be a mystery though... understand a few basic concepts and you are in business and can then grow from there as a fisherman.

[Kyhl]

Great information.

I would like to add that tieing to the split ring, tieing to a snap, or using a loose type of knot all accomplish the same thing, relieving the knot pressure from the lure to allow it to move freely. They are three different ways of accomplishing the same thing.

As to the comment about only using snap rings when they are provided, what do you do with lures that come with snap rings but not attached, a la sweedish pimples?

I was leaving lure tuning to crankbait 201. Just before sunset on Saturday I watched and talked to a guy a mile off shore that was tuning all the baits that he planned to use that night. Prepairing his baits for after dark. He spent about a half hour running baits along the side of his boat making sure they were aligned.

Actually, my first thought since he was from IA, was that he was chumming with artificials. Silly Iowans.

This is part of the reason I like dropping the lure next to the boat and letting it float back, rather than casting. My first step is to drop the lure over the edge and check how it's running. If it is running true then I open the bail and let it drift back behind the boat. If it is not running straight I pick it up, tweak it, and repeat.

[Comit 2]

Trolling 101.

If you are using Shad rap type lures. Get a 7' Med or 7foot Medlight spinning rod. Lets say a 30-35 size spinning reel, some backing and fill it with some 10lb Sufix Metered Performance Braid. Maybe add some 12-14lb Fluorocarbon as a leader.

When trolling (not for suspended fish) you want to fish as close to the bottom as you can. Hitting the bottom or as I like to say tickling the bottom with the lure is a very good thing. So lets say, your in 15fow and your trolling along at 2.5mph with 90 feet (3 colors of metered line) out. Your trolling along but your not sure your doing it right. Well, your not. Slowly move the boat into shallower water. Around 12fow your lure starts to tick bottom. Good, you now have a starting point. We know that this lure runs at 12' at 2.5 mph with 90' of line out. Holding at 12' can be hard to do so if you find yourself shallower and dragging on the bottom hold your rod tip up high and move out deeper. If you want to fish shallower reel in some line and do the same thing. More line out to go deeper. To a point where you need to swap lure and start over.

Now let's say your fishing a bar with a deeper section (2-3 foot deeper) half way out. Your trolling along at 12' but at the saddle (deeper section) your lure looses contact with the bottom even though your lure is running at 12' and the water at the top of the bar at the saddle is 10'. Then the bar comes back up to 8'deep and you are plowing the bottom all the way back to 12 foot of water. What just happened? You hit a wind blown current going over the bar. That is why there is a saddle in the bar, It's how they are made and they all have them. Now work the areas where fast the current is necked down. Then move on.