"Muzzleloader with scopes" rule change

[lakevet]

I hadn't heard what the final outcome was for scoping muzzleloaders during muzzleloader season til today.

From MDHA legislative update:

"Items That Did Not Pass

Scopes on Muzzle Loaders – Attempts by MDHA to legalize scopes on muzzle loaders during the muzzle

loader deer hunting season failed again this year. The provision was passed by the Senate Environment

Committee and was contained in the Senate Omnibus Game and Fish Bill. Unfortunately, House

conference committee members would not agree to the Senate provision and thus it was not included in

the Omnibus Game and Fish Bill that was signed by the Governor."

While I am a member of MDHA, I strongly disagree with their stance on this issue, and voiced my opinion to my legislators. Thankfully the long standing counter tactic of introducing a more restrictive bill on what type of muzzleloaders would be allowed (that got many new comers to the muzzleloader season in an uproar), resulted in the dropping of both bills and the season not being morphed even further into a long range latest and greatest modern firearm season. The more restrictive counter bill only gets introduced after the scopers introduce their bill.

Why can't we just leave the season alone?

I am sure the scopers will try again next session, but for those who want the season unchanged, thank your legislator if they voted against, and chew on the ones who wanted scopes!

And if you know a scoper, tell them to get good peep sights and invite them to practice with you this summer!

lakevet

[Jameson]

...Why can't we just leave the season alone?...

That's what I've been saying since we only had deer season. Not archery-deer season, muzzy-deer season, etc... Why couldn't we just leave the season alone and only have deer season.

[Musky Buck]

Because other states allow it. We in MN are really crybabies at times about what other states allow, we used to barely know what other states do allow but now with a click of a mouse we start to question our specialists with fish and game and find the other side of the fence argument and run with it. We're getting to be more about getting and the ease of getting, not so much about the hunting experience. My vote is allow scopes, but you aint hunting the rifle season then. One or the other.

[Musky Buck]

Add on I don't think they should've messed with choosing to rifle or muzzleload, now it's mass pressure all the time especially in the farm land areas I hunt it's primarily allowing many individuals to wail away by rifle and save the tag so they can have a brand new season of muzzleloading, at least by choosing a guy could have a little peace and quiet by muzzleloading. The ease or whatever I got at meant most still do love the hunt, but the loud ones are the complainers. Thing is if deer hunting becomes stressful, so stressful like it's getting for me I already auctioned off some guns, my land is for sale etc. my days are numbered if status quo remains.

[candiru]

If you are going to allow scopes on muzzleloaders, we might as well just call this the second forearms season and open it up to all firearms. You just have to buy the second license.

I agree Musky, go back to picking one or the other.

[kc0myy]

I can agree with you guys. I think they should be able to pick your one season and stick with it. If your a bow hunter go bow hunting if your a shot gun hunter go shotgun hunting. If your a die hard muzzle loader like me just go muzzle loading. In Minnesota if you cant really get a shot over 50 yards. so why do you need a scope. I also think they should have a open cap law in Minnesota. which means you need to have an open cap for muzzle loading. Muzzle loading is so advanced its not even really a challenge. I want a challenge in hunting not point and shoot. There is my 2 cents

[kc0myy]

one more thing with picking one or the other. The DNR knows they can get more money by letting hunters hunt both seasons. That's the only reason they are letting hunters hunt both or all seasons.

[Spike76]

Musky Buck, who would the specialists in Minnesota be? When I was eighteen I was a specialist in many things. Now at 66 I realize how little I new then. Open sights at my age aren't as good as a scope, but I'll put a peep sight on my muzzle loader and not take shots over 40 yards. When people disagree with me, I dodn't think they are crybabies. Many people think that the, so called specialists, know what they are doing. Lobbiests control too many of the laws passed, with the special interest groups getting things for themselves, and not what's best for all in Minnesota. I've even seen surveys that say the president is doing good.

[cavalierowner]

They can do what they want with scopes during ML season, I'll never put a scope on my traditional sidelock. It would look ridiculous!! In fact I'm trying to move away from modern projectiles now and I'm working up a good load combination with a patched roundball.

Although maybe I should never say never, because I already had to take off the traditional sights and put on fiber optic sights. My eyes just aren't what they used to be and I'm only 63. And yes, the fiber optics do look silly on that rifle, just not as bad as a scope would IMHO.

[TruthWalleyes]

I would very much like a scoped muzzleloader. But i just want a deer or two in the freezer. Not interested in the tradition. Not interested in horn porn either. Just venison burgers, steaks, roasts and time in the great outdoors with a gun in hand.

Fishing...Not interested in the fillets, just the time on the water... of course i can and do fish year round and keep only what I eat that day.

[candiru]

one more thing with picking one or the other. The DNR knows they can get more money by letting hunters hunt both seasons. That's the only reason they are letting hunters hunt both or all seasons.

The situation was forced on the DNR by the legislature when the all-season license was ended.

[harvey lee]

I hunt about every deer season there is and would love a scope for my Ml. If the scope for the ML one day is allowed, those that would rarther not have one do not have to put one on thier gun.

I would rather see that we could all chose the type weapon that we want as long as it is within the regs. You can hunt with what u choose and I hope I can also. I believe my scoped slug gun can shot just as well as my ML if it had a scope for Minnesota. I use one in North Dakota as I can see better than with the iron sites on the gun now.

I do not fill all of my tags so the DNR makes good money off me.

I love just being out in the woods as many seasons as I can.

[john skarie]

I see no reason to make hunting "more of a challenge" for others based on your personal views.

Looking down on others way of hunting and preference for weapons is just arrogant and judgemental.

Live and let live, shoot what you want how you want and let others do the same.

JS

[harvey lee]

I agree John.

[lakevet]

I see no reason to make hunting "more of a challenge" for others based on your personal views.

Looking down on others way of hunting and preference for weapons is just arrogant and judgemental.

Live and let live, shoot what you want how you want and let others do the same.

JS

"I see no reason to make hunting "LESS of a challenge" for others based on your personal views.

Looking down on others way of hunting and preference for weapons is just arrogant and judgemental.

Live and let live, shoot what you want how you want and let others do the same.

lakevet"

To continue to push for CHANGING the season so it is nearly identical to regular firearms season is not live and let live. It is move in and say my way or the highway. You already have a season you can use your scoped muzzleloader in. The regular firearms season!

Again, muzzleloading season came into existence due to a group of hunters wanting a low hunter density challenging "traditional" muzzleloader hunt with self imposed restrictions to reduce harvest success. These restrictions included giving up regular firearms season (pick a season), hunting late season after the regular firearms season when weather is nastier and deer are spooky from being shot up and the rut is done so deer movement is way down and open sighted loose powder flinters or cap locks. Only after showing that muzzleloader season, with these restrictions, would not negatively impact the herd in any way was the DNR willing to have a statewide season. It went on for years with anyone who wanted having the CHOICE to do it. Harvest was minimal. However even Lou C. said this last time that while not against scopes on muzzleloaders, the DNR would monitor and if needed put more restrictions on what could be harvested if too many deer are shot. More regs. And the precedent already exists where muzzy loaders have been restricted more than shotgun hunters as to what they can harvest/availability of doe permits less.

Just be happy you can deer hunt with a firearm for up to 32 days.

Live and let live. That includes having to let that buck live because he is at 150 yds and you are only good to 100 with open sights.

lakevet

[TruthWalleyes]

What's challenging about muzzleloader season. I hunt shotgun zone...Shotgun will shoot deer 100yds or less...I'll pull the trigger on my muzzleloader at 200yds or less.

So put a scope on it.

Go into rifle zone...Rifles will shoot out to 300yds, no problem. Well, so will muzzleloaders given the correct gun and load.

I'm not seeing the increased difficulty, and do not understand this "low hunter density" bologna. Still seems pretty busy during muzzle season to me.

[cavalierowner]

I'm not seeing the increased difficulty, and do not understand this "low hunter density" bologna. Still seems pretty busy during muzzle season to me.

I think it depends on where you hunt. I hunt up by Isabella and there are a LOT of hunters during rifle season. But during ML season there is no one; I have never seen a hunter during ML season in the six(?) years I have hunted there! Sometimes I wish others would come to our area during ML season so there were more hunters to move the deer.

But regardless of what they do with scopes in the future, I will always use open sights on a sidelock. Just a personal preference for me.

[john skarie]

Challenge yourself by choosing to not use a scope.

I use a .308 lever action without a scope during rifle season. I like to still hunt, so for me the open sights work great.

I'm not going to look down on a guy who has a scope on his rifle, or make it illegal. You can make your hunt as challenging as you want to without forcing it on someone else.

JS

[harvey lee]

It's too bad that sportsman cannot agree on most things but I guess it has always been that way and always will to the end of time.

I do not care what anyone else used for a weapon to hunt deer as long as it is legal.

In turn, I do not want another to try and tell me that my way of hunting is not correct simply because another does not like or agree with it.

THis issue is no differnt than APR and we have to all agree that we do not agree totally. I guess that is why the Legislatiure has to decide for us.

I choose not to shoot forkhorns but if another wants to shoot one or a fawn buck, it is not my place to tell them it has to be a deer that I would shoot.

[Eric Wettschreck]

I'm trying to move away from modern projectiles now and I'm working up a good load combination with a patched roundball.

In my caplock I use 110 gr black powder, round ball and patch. Incredibly accurate to around 100 yards. Still real accurate out to 120 yards and that's all the farther I need to shoot. I'll take the patch and ball over the more modern projectiles all day and twice on Sunday.

Sorry for going off track.

Carry on.

[fowldreams]

I say let the choice come to the individual. At the end of the day we are all looking for the most ethical clean shot as possible. We owe that to the animals. As far as the seasons argument goes, if we care about too many deer being taken by other individuals. Why not move the firearm season out of the rut. And push it back couple weeks like our neighbors to the east.

[Archerysniper]

Why not move the firearm season out of the rut. And push it back couple weeks like our neighbors to the east.

That makes too much sense and would interfere with the Non resident Lic sales.

[Jameson]

...if we care about too many deer being taken by other individuals. Why not move the firearm season out of the rut. And push it back couple weeks like our neighbors to the east.

...because that's an terrible idea that likely won't solve the problem through-out the wide ranging state of MN. It would be much better to have a buck lottery like we have a doe lottery that is very effective IN THIS STATE. We wouldn't need it state wide, just in some areas, like the doe lottery.

[TruthWalleyes]

Or limit tags...