What's a fair price?

[otterman91105]

I'm to the point of doing the rough in for electric in my basement just wondering if anyone has a idea of what is a fair price? I had two quotes of $300 and one for $400. It that about where it should be?

[JohnMickish]

It is really hard to ask for a price without any particulars like number of openings, how many circuits, light fixtures or what-not, but if you ask me, and I do this for a living, that's about half of what it should be. If they are licensed and insured I would jump on either price. Even as an under the table side job, it's pretty cheap, especially if that is parts and labor, from rough in to finish.

[Archerysniper]

It is really hard to ask for a price without any particulars like number of openings, how many circuits, light fixtures or what-not, but if you ask me, and I do this for a living, that's about half of what it should be. If they are licensed and insured I would jump on either price. Even as an under the table side job, it's pretty cheap, especially if that is parts and labor, from rough in to finish.

+1 that's cheap

[otterman91105]

Yea $300 was for just the labor. I will be paying for the material. Also will be paying cash and helping with what i can. Both bids were by licened electrians. ( Side Job) It's a bedroom, walk in closet, bathroom, and a living room with small bar.

[cavalierowner]

My gosh that's cheap! The last time I had an electrician to my house, he was here for an hour (and installed maybe $20 worth of materials) and it cost me $110. Granted I'm in the Mpls burbs, but even so...

[BobT]

Quote:

Yea $300 was for just the labor. I will be paying for the material. Also will be paying cash and helping with what i can. Both bids were by licened electrians.

What license(s) are they carrying?

[JohnMickish]

What license(s) are they carrying?

My guess is journeymans only, not a master or contractors, also asuming no permit.

If your asking about the price, it's cheap, but without starting another hate thread what you are doing is illegal.

You cannot hire an electrician to do a side job in your house. If you pull the permit you have to do 100% of the electrical work and not hire any portion of it out.

[cavalierowner]

Quote:

My guess is journeymans only, not a master or contractors, also asuming no permit.

If your asking about the price, it's cheap, but without starting another hate thread what you are doing is illegal.

You cannot hire an electrician to do a side job in your house. If you pull the permit you have to do 100% of the electrical work and not hire any portion of it out.

Why would it be illegal? If I pull a permit because I'm doing my own work and pay the someone to help me, it shouldn't matter what the person does for a living should it? Or does the state not allow homeowners to hire someone to help them? That would make no sense, but then there are a few rules in the construction industry that didn't make sense to me. And yes, a permit absolutely should be pulled for the work that is being described.

[JohnMickish]

The state does not allow a homowner to pull a permit and hire electrical help. The problem with it lies in the legal matters.

Say the guy you hire is a non licensed guy, he makes a mistake and your house burns down and someone gets hurt. Who are you going to file the lawsuit against?

Now if the hired help holds a journeymans or masters license and the same scenario happends, his license is at risk along with the rules that comes along with that license.

It happens alot, it's just not legal, that's all.

I am guessing that when the law was put on the books they must have figured that if you where going to burn down your house the weight of the mistake should lie on you, and for that reason you cannot do electrical on any other property that you may own other than the primary residence that you live in. No rental property, no comercial or industrial property, and not your moms house, just your residence.

I am not saying I agree or disagree with the law and I didn't write the law, I'm just putting it out there so people know the law.

FWIW, if the inspector catches wind that some of it was hired out some will red tag the whole thing. They are not stupid and they can look at the job and see if it was professionally done or not. This little job it probably won't matter but on a more technically involved job the inspector will be able to spot a homeowner job vs a pro job pretty easy.

[delcecchi]

The law was put in place to protect livelihoods. That said, permit or no permit, legal or not, you would sue the same guy, the one that did the work.

Saying it is ok for joe blow to do his own work but dangerous for him to hire an electrician to do it for him without some middleman is absurd.

But the law is the law and if you are doing the permit/inspection thing you need to follow it.

[otterman91105]

It seem's like most people when finishing there basement don't end up pulling a permit. Is it the right thing to do, no probally not.

[CAMAN]

The law was put in place to protect livelihoods.

Haha! Yeah...right...

If that were the case they would have said "NO ELECTRICAL WORK **PERIOD** UNLESS YOU ARE LICENSED AND INSURED"

The law was put in place to prevent "Slumlord Del" from either doing the work himself or hiring the cheapest "Handyman" off the street who knows nothing about electrical. It takes the liability off the government if "Slumlord Del" or the "Handyman" screwed something up and killed someone or burned something down, and puts it on "Slumlord Del" and his insurance, and hopefully he has A LOT of it!

[cavalierowner]

I know a lot of people do work without a permit, but I think they are asking for a lot of trouble should they do something wrong without realizing it. MOST code requirements are in place for a very good reason, many times addressing an issue in the past where lives have been lost. I never understood why people are afraid of having an inspector look at something that meets code. The cost of a permit is peanuts compared to the overall job cost. So if I can't hire an electrician, or any other professional, to help me with my DIY project, then I'll chalk that up to another code provision that makes no sense to me.

The only thing that really irritated me when I pulled a permit for a 3 season porch addition to my house is that part of the permit cost was a plan review and the plan reviewer never even looked at my plans. When I got the plans back approved, it was literally covered with red rubber stamp comments! I got so mad that it wasn't reviewed that I wrote an almost 2 page typewritten letter responding to each of the red stamps and what detail number it was shown on the drawings; or in a couple cases why the red stamp comment didn't even apply to my project. Then I followed it up with a call to the plan checker to be sure he read and agreed with all the responses in my letter.

[MN_Jay]

Remember permit or no permit, all electrical work done on a residence by a licensed electrician in the state of MN has to be inspected and approved, no exceptions - I would call your guys and ask if the price changes to include this and each of their reactions will help dictate who to pick.

[Farmboy1]

I am a general contractor. I would expect to pay around $50 for an electrician. At that rate this gives the guy 6 hours to complete the work. Minimum of 2 trips, rough in and trim/install at 3 hours per trip. That is a steal.

[hanson]

Just so I'm clear on this... if I want to have electrical work done in my basement, lets say replacing my panel, the electrician pulls his permit and does his work?? This would be separate from my building permit??

[ncesi]

I happen to be an Electrical Contractor. What everyone is saying is true. If you are going to do electrical work for hire you must be licesened by the state of minnesota, carry a contractors license, insurance, bonding, etc... This adds up to alot of money each year, not to mention the cost of trucks, tools, etc... Then add in the labor costs of employees, and $50.00 per hour does not even come close even in the outlying areas of the state. And you mentioned that this was a side job, if the person helping you is an electrician employed by some Electrical Contractor and does side work even with out his employers knowlege that Contractor can still be held liable by the law for the employees work. This is a very slippery slope you are on. One cannot blame a person (your buddy doing the side job) for being ambitious enough to work extra time to make extra cash but it is still illegal. I hear all of the time wow you guys are expensive! I can tell you after growing up in a family run buisness and running my own for 30+ years you are never going to get rich, but It is a good way to earn a honest living, and something one can be proud of.

[cavalierowner]

Interesting ncesi. Before I retired, the multiplier we used to determine the billing rate to clients for a person was 2.5 to 3.0 times the persons hourly rate. In other words, if my salary is $35 per hour, our clients were billed between $88 and $105 per hour. That's what it took to "keep the doors open".

And if I did a side job, we called it moonlighting, I could be fired. The only exception to this was for family. But as far as I know it was not against the law for me to sign drawings for something I designed and produced or was produced under my direct supervision.

[amateurfishing]

i could be wrong/out of line here, but i am have the understanding said homeowner can do whatever they want in said owned home per permit application. it does not matter who does the work, what DOES matter is whoever pulls/applies for permit is the one responsible for all said work (via insurance issues). a homeowner can apply for electrical permit themselves, then hire job out and have job completed, inspected, & all done but if any issue arises later, said homeowner is his own worst enemy at that point. homeowner cannot backtrack liability wise from any hired help cause permit was in homeowners name, HOWEVER, if bonded/licensed/insured electrician pulls permit and provides services, then they would be liable insurance wise....correct? .....or not?

Someone stated above hiring out on side is illegal, if that is the case, then no homeowner should be allowed to do their own renovations (unless already in business or have previous experience) right?

[ncesi]

That is not wat I ment. If one is a licensed professional in the electrical trade, he is held to a higher standard than one not licensed. A home oner can do any wiring he wants on his own residence, period. If said homeowner rents any portion of said residence then at that point legally it would be illegal to do any electrical work on the rented potion of his own thus requiring a licensed pro to do the work. And unless one is a licensed, bonded, insured pro you can do no electrical work for hire, period, according to MN state laws. I do not impose the laws, but I must follow them as a licesened professional. Sorry but that is how it works. As far as whom is responisble think form an insurance companies perspective. They want to know whom is responisible and whom should pay thi bill, if they can find a fault they will find a way to get someone else to pay the bill if possible.

[amateurfishing]

so any experienced handyman that is not licensed/bonded/ensured that advertises in the paper for hire is breaking the law?

....or is this meant for any building with the purpose of renting/leasing? a single family home could be renting at anytime from homeowner.

so hypothetically if i have a neighbor going to school for this and he says he knows everything, i pull permits, pay him to help for school & do work for me for experience, he says ok, that scenario is illegal on his part cause he is not licensed yet?

[amateurfishing]

otterman, with all due respect unless u are doing a major addition (fuse panels, new board, etc) elecrical is pretty simple. i knew nothing 8 years ago and taught myself, working on my basement myself, just adding circuits to empty fuse slots on circuit board. if that is your situation, you could do it on your own, if more extensive, your choice. for just adding outlets & lighting, it is basic & simple and there are tools available to tell you if you have it correct or not like outlet testers that are color coded and will tell you if wiring is correct or not.

[Farmboy1]

so any experienced handyman that is not licensed/bonded/ensured that advertises in the paper for hire is breaking the law?

Yes. In MN.

All residential building contractors and residential remodelers who contract with an owner to construct or improve dwellings for habitation by one to four families (including detached garages) and perform two or more special skills must be licensed.

$100,000 in general liability insurance is required.

Workmen's compensation insurance is also required if you have any employees

The bond is what covers the owner if something happens to the project. While not required, I would not hire a contractor without one.

[amateurfishing]

thx, i had no idea

[K_Josh87]

Short answer. YES. Unless they a specializing in ONE and ONLY one item work, (EX. painting) AND have filed for an exception...

ALL roofers are required to be licensed.

Not saying these guys have a tendency to do PPP, however, if they do, on your project, You as the one who hired them are the one who is pretty much SOL.