Why? Depthfinders?So Expesive?

[UKCM]

I tend to agree that depthfinders and GPS are more expensive than they need to be. Just look at how quick the prices on the Lowrance HDS are coming down now that the Gen 2 units are out. Apparently the cost to make the first generation HDS units suddenly got a lot cheaper. It is not hard to figure out why. Price is not based on cost, it is based on what people are willing to pay. There are a class of fisherman that will always pay a premium to have the latest and greatest. The manufacturers know this.

But please stop with the PC and laptop analogies or tell me where I can buy a laptop or tablet that will work after fishing for hours in the rain.

[UKCM]

I tend to agree that depthfinders and GPS are more expensive than they need to be. Just look at how quick the prices on the Lowrance HDS are coming down now that the Gen 2 models are out. Apparently the cost to make the first generation HDS units suddenly got a lot cheaper. It is not hard to figure out why. Price is not based on cost, it is based on what people are willing to pay. There are a class of fisherman that will always pay a premium to have the latest and greatest. The manufacturers know this.

But please stop with the PC and laptop analogies or tell me where I can buy a laptop or tablet that will work after fishing for hours in the rain.

[jholland]

Or you could just get a decent finder and run a tablet with the Navionics app as two units. You could be running that combo right now.

Something else is screen visibility in bright sun could be a problem.

This is what I do.

I just got a new Humminbird 385ci and didn't want to fork out another 100$+ for the map chip, so I instead purchased the Navionics app for my phone (10$), and use the Humminbird solely as a sonar. And with the money saved, I picked up an extra phone battery that I keep in the portable at all times, just in case anything happens (I also have a charger in there).

After a day out on Mille Lacs and getting some good use out of it (And plenty of hours on Tonka this year with it), I've got absolutely no complaints.

[h8go4s]

I tend to agree that depthfinders and GPS are more expensive than they need to be.

But please stop with the PC and laptop analogies or tell me where I can buy a laptop or tablet that will work after fishing for hours in the rain.

The price "needs" to be high enough to cover all the costs of design, manufacturing, testing, marketing, spare parts stocking, product support, sales, advertising, distributing, warranting, repair and whatever business costs I've omitted, plus provide a profit for the shareholders. And it "needs" to be low enough to compete in the market. How do any of us outside the business know what the price "needs" to be? And the introduction of new products always results in reduced prices on old products, whether they be sonars, broomsticks or cars. That's factored into business calculations. Ultimately, price is whatever the market will bear, and from working in a manufacturing plant for 38 years, I can tell you that cost reduction is a constant process, as is product improvement. It's dog-eat-dog, and if you think the manufacturers are making more profit than they should, then the best thing you could do is buy their stock and share in the windfall.

I agree with your last statement. Laptops and tablets are just not a viable option, and I'm tired of that song and dance.

[jholland]

But please stop with the PC and laptop analogies or tell me where I can buy a laptop or tablet that will work after fishing for hours in the rain.

Okay, here: OverBoard Waterproof iPad Case

Sorry, but saying it's not a viable option just because someone hasn't made a laptop that is designed for fisherman isn't exactly fair.

I've already been actively using the Navionics app on my DroidX as well as on my iPad for ice fishing this year and haven't a single complaint. Actually, I tried using my Uncle's Garmin on Mille Lacs today and found myself switching back to my phone as soon as I walked outside because of the glare on the screen of the Garmin. I'd rather use my phone. It can be done, the only things missing are a transducer, and some code to go with it.

edit: Heck, that case + an otterbox for an iPad and you've got yourself a pretty durable unit.

[Shawn Kellett]

Well, being that I'm probably the only supplier of a few of the fishing electronics manufacturers here on the site I think I have a little insight. The screens are a huge part of the cost of these things. True they make more on us on the big ones, but their production runs of those items are infinitesimal compared to their smaller units and not even in the same realm as consumer electronics. You also have to figure into it all the set-ups, toolings, R&D etc for each unit. The smaller the run the fewer units to amortize these cost out on. So if a housing tool costs $45,000 they have to incorporate that cost into the units. If they only make 5000 units that's $45 of cost into the unit just for the tool to make the plastic part, not even the part itself.

Then there is the transducers. They're expensive to make with consistency and durability. I think many of us remember the X15 era transducers that lasted 18 months and needed to be replaced.

Then there's the fact that they need to spend a lot of money and labor to make these things basically work on the moon. If they don't they get killed with returns and go under. In response they over build them.

I giggle at you guys that want to take your laptop, phone, or tablet and use it as your depth finder. I've gone through 4 laptops, 8 phones, and 3 tablets in the same amount of time that I've been using my oldest depth finder. This is with my unit being left out in the elements, being pounded on big water and cooked in the sun. You're basically trying to make the argument that your F150 is just as capable of a combat vehicle as a Bradly tank. Laughable to say the least.

[yaggie]

I also have the navionics app. and it is not near as functional as my gps unit in my boat. not even close. You will not see your map shooting across a lake on your little phone in the daytime. If these units are that overpriced and simple to make you have a great opportunity to start up your own company.

If you can produce the same quality for less price sales would be easy.

[thatoneguy]

Well, being that I'm probably the only supplier of a few of the fishing electronics manufacturers here on the site I think I have a little insight. The screens are a huge part of the cost of these things. True they make more on us on the big ones, but their production runs of those items are infinitesimal compared to their smaller units and not even in the same realm as consumer electronics. You also have to figure into it all the set-ups, toolings, R&D etc for each unit. The smaller the run the fewer units to amortize these cost out on. So if a housing tool costs $45,000 they have to incorporate that cost into the units. If they only make 5000 units that's $45 of cost into the unit just for the tool to make the plastic part, not even the part itself.

Then there is the transducers. They're expensive to make with consistency and durability. I think many of us remember the X15 era transducers that lasted 18 months and needed to be replaced.

Then there's the fact that they need to spend a lot of money and labor to make these things basically work on the moon. If they don't they get killed with returns and go under. In response they over build them.

I giggle at you guys that want to take your laptop, phone, or tablet and use it as your depth finder. I've gone through 4 laptops, 8 phones, and 3 tablets in the same amount of time that I've been using my oldest depth finder. This is with my unit being left out in the elements, being pounded on big water and cooked in the sun. You're basically trying to make the argument that your F150 is just as capable of a combat vehicle as a Bradly tank. Laughable to say the least.

Great post.

[thatoneguy]

@jholland - that's all well and good that you found a way to make it work for ice fishing, but what does that have to do with the concerns being raised aout the vibration and moisture encountered in open water fishing? besides absolutely nothing, i mean.

[jholland]

@jholland - that's all well and good that you found a way to make it work for ice fishing, but what does that have to do with the concerns being raised aout the vibration and moisture encountered in open water fishing? besides absolutely nothing, i mean.

Check out the case I mentioned, and do some research on what an OtterBox is. I addressed both of those issues. Even still, like I said, just because someone hasn't made a case/tablet that is specifically designed for fishing, doesn't mean it's not a possibility.

The best argument I've seen is that "I've had my fish finder for X years and in that time I've had X amount of phones go bad." But you're kidding yourself if you think that's not partially your own fault.

Also, I actually have had the iPad out on the boat quite a few times this past fall, although not necessarily for fishing reasons, and it has stood up just fine.

Lastly, sonar's aren't complicated units. You can make your own sonar using a DIY Arduino kit pretty easily.

[delcecchi]

I wonder what the side scan down imaging really does. A basic depthfinder would be easy. Drive a pulse at 200 or 800 khz that lasts for say 20 microseconds (one inch in water). Then listen and digitize the return for a period of time, either fixed or dependent on depth scale. Write the data to the tablet over USB or some other data connector available. Actually could use wifi and get auto networking out of the deal.

Software on the tablet massages the data and displays. Starting to sound almost easy. Do the whole deal with a micro controller with build in A/D converter. What do you guys think such a unit would be worth? I would think maybe 200. A little more if it has three drivers and three a/d converters for side scan.

[Wish-I-Were-Fishn]

At also comes down to how often you really fish vs how much you want tied up into your fishing only rig. If you can use your tablet for navigation you can spend less on a sounder. You grab the tablet when you go out and use the snot out of it at home when you're not fishing. Easier cost justification for many. Nice big screen too.

Can you fish from a canoe? That depends on where you plan to fish. Same goes with using something like a tablet for fishing. Depends on how you plan to use it and if you can live with compromises.

[Valv]

I giggle at you guys that want to take your laptop, phone, or tablet and use it as your depth finder. I've gone through 4 laptops, 8 phones, and 3 tablets in the same amount of time that I've been using my oldest depth finder. This is with my unit being left out in the elements, being pounded on big water and cooked in the sun. You're basically trying to make the argument that your F150 is just as capable of a combat vehicle as a Bradly tank. Laughable to say the least.

I am glad you've got a laugh about it, I'm doing the same for the above.

The laptop comparison was an analogy and an example that technology is out there and it's much better that what they are "feeding" us with these units, but they charge us with enormous prices.

A sonar is made of 3 basic components, the transducer, the processing unit and the display, all the perfectly operating and interchanging with each others, some technologies are carried over by many, many years of production.

5000 units, huh, I believe Lowrance will not even exist if they only sold 5000 unit of a model, let's say $ 500,000 unit since the housing is carried over for many years of production, and many unit model, thus if any modification was made it would definitely not cost the $$ mentioned, I'm pretty sure anybody can make the calculations, right ?

Waterproof and shock resistant ? With newer technologies where there's no solid state parts (eg hard drive) on don't see where is the difference with a PC, also these units are water RESISTANT not waterproof, if immersed in water they'll die, if splashed with water they have rubber seals to keep it dry, and that's a huge difference.

My point is, we have the technology available on many electronics, I don't see the difference with these units. That's why I compared it to the gasoline prices situation, there are many excuses why prices keep increasing, you make you own judgement.

[Eastwind]

Valv,

You summed it up pretty well. I think this is simply common business practice. They (the manufacturers) charge us what they do because we pay it. They present us with technology that is a knotch or two above what we are using today. They know what their last models sold for. They know what the competition is selling comparable models for. We fishermen love to have the "Next best thing" to give us an edge when we are fishing. Most everyone seems to be very happy. Can you believe what they get for those new tablets?

[Valv]

Valv,

Can you believe what they get for those new tablets?

can you believe what they charge for a PHONE nowadays..

Ok, we are opening another can of worms here, let's leave it the way it is, all good, we'll keep buying the latest and the greatest because....we are guys and we like electronics

[Eastwind]

Nothin' wrong with that.

[BartmanMN]

Battery power is an issue on the tablets. I know you would need to run them on a power plug. That itself wouldn't work for an iPad because the ducer would go in the same connector as the charger does.

I don't think this is the case because I can accept credit cards on my iphone and that plugs into the headphone jack on top. squareup.com

[jholland]

I don't think this is the case because I can accept credit cards on my iphone and that plugs into the headphone jack on top. squareup.com

They also have adapters that have two ports on them. The HDMI adapters has an HDMI slot, and a power slot, to my knowledge. Having to keep the unit plugged in all the time would admittedly be a hassle, but that's no different from the GPS/Sonar that's currently sitting on your boat's dashboard (or not, since it's winter).

Honestly, at this point it's a matter of software. Converting a transducer to be able to be powered via a USB hub likely wouldn't be very difficult at all, configuring the device to interact with the transducer, well, you'll have to know what you're doing to get that working, but again, it is by no means impossible.