MN Supreme Court calls "illegal game baiting" laws ambiguous

[jay83196]

Tonka well said! I agree with you and as far as ethical in this day and age we have so many gadgets and use scent and calls whats the difference, calling them and tricking them with scent (hey deer come here please so I can trick you thinking a does around and shoot you dead or here's some food so I can shoot you dead) ? If its a matter of legality only I have food plots and also fed deer this summer and they far preferred plots and ignored corn so what's difference. I just don't understand why this is such an issue besides the legal aspect...

[deerminator]

Baiting bear doesn't gaurantee anything, nor is it easy, but it does increase your chances at success. The same applies to baiting deer if you ask those in states where it is legal. Bait does not gaurentee you a big buck but you will in most cases see more deer. It's kind of funny calling those who bait lazy slobs. There are a whole lot of hunters in numerous states that allow it that would totally disagree with that statement. The only state where hunters aren't lazy I guess is Alambama where you can kill a deer with a spear. But that's only if they're on the ground, not in a commercially made blind, nor hunting over an agricultural fields of any kind. In fact, you should be stalking them. Maybe then you're not lazy.

[Big Dave2]

The only state where hunters aren't lazy I guess is Alambama where you can kill a deer with a spear. But that's only if they're on the ground, not in a commercially made blind, nor hunting over an agricultural fields of any kind. In fact, you should be stalking them. Maybe then you're not lazy.

NOW we're talking fair chase!

[Big Dave2]

I guess I am curious as to why some people think that baiting would be a "lazy" way to hunt? I've never baited deer before but if I were to, wouldn't I have to go out and buy corn and take some to my stand site every day for at least a couple of weeks, right? How is that any lazier than the guy that gets up the morning of opener and strolls down to the same box stand that he has been hunting for 10 years and sits and waits for the deer to show up?

I know that some work hard at scouting and moving stands but I believe that the majority just go back to the same locations they have been seeing deer at all their lives. Why is that considered hard work, while baiting is seen as the "lazy" way?

[00rowe]

Big Dave,

Just curious as to how QDM is more harmful to "sport hunting" than baiting is? That was your quote on the "change to opener" thread?

So do you honestly think it is more "sporting" to hunt from a portable deer stand or blind over a pile of corn or apples than it is to hunt from box stand overlooking a natural travel corridor or food source?

Mike

[shortfatguy]

I think the people who think baiting is a slob or lazy way of hunting assume that because you have some feed placed in front of you that you would just stroll out and take your pick of the hundreds of deer gathered to feast on your cheap, easily placed, bounty. I have never baited but I don't think that's quite how it would be. I would think a field or food plot of nice fresh clover would attract more deer than a little pile of dry [PoorWordUsage] corn. But if you own land and farm or put in food plots you are considered a hard working sportsman when you shoot a deer on your feed pile that's still attached to the roots.

[Big Dave2]

Big Dave,

Just curious as to how QDM is more harmful to "sport hunting" than baiting is? That was your quote on the "change to opener" thread?

Please find my quote and paste it here because I don't exactly recall saying those words, although I would agree with that statement.

So do you honestly think it is more "sporting" to hunt from a portable deer stand or blind over a pile of corn or apples than it is to hunt from box stand overlooking a natural travel corridor or food source?

I don't think that one is more "sporting" than the other. How can it be called a sport when one side doesn't even know they are playing the game? It is not a game, it is killing an animal for food and population control. If we keep losing respect for the animals we kill, that will be all the ammunition that anti-hunting groups will need to take down hunting for good.

Let me ask you a question. Do you find it more "sporting" to kill a deer lured in by doe scent, artificial horn rattling or decoys than to kill a deer lured in by food?

Mike

[00rowe]

Sighhhh.

Too bad the sport of hunting is ruined forever.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“Congratulations, you have a sense of humor. And to those who didn't: Go stick your head in the mud.” - Jesse Ventura

The above is your quote from page 2 of the thread "opener date"

I do not consider hunting a "sport", sports to me are competition, I enjoy the challenge of hunting, I enjoy eating venison, I also like to test my skills and patience by "trophy" hunting, all done at the same time by shooting does and only targeting mature bucks.

I do not use scents, pretty much a gimmick to me. But calling a deer in by tricking them is much different than placing food, more than likely something that isn't readily available or found naturally there. Deer eat every day, deer do not respond to calls all the time or ever and much differently at different times of the year. So to me they are much different.

Baiting and food plots are also different because of how deer are to feed at them. Deer naturally do not eat shoulder to shoulder, even under a natural food source like apples or acorns, so the risk of disease transfer is much greater when they are eating off a pile of corn or apples.

When deer populations are too high I would have zero problems with opening up restrictions, such as baiting, scopes on muzzleloaders etc. That is a DNR problem with not being flexible, but that also reflects on the hunters, not wanting anything to change. There is no reason that dates and laws cannot change periodically, as we need to change the amount of deer taken or which deer need to be taken(more does and less bucks.)

By the way, lots of families enjoying more time in the field in Wisconsin with hunting season over Thankgiving, 2 weekends and 2 days during the week in which kids in school can get out and enjoy the outdoors vs our early november gun season in which most kids can only get out on the weekends.

I believe strongly in doing whatever it takes to ensure the future of hunting for the following generations. Keeping an open mind, being flexible, and adapting to the changing world is our only chance.

Time to get out and try and top off the freezer, does best look out. Good luck to all the late season hunters.

Mike

[Big Dave2]

How does this:

Quote:

Sighhhh.

Too bad the sport of hunting is ruined forever.

Equal this:

Quote:

Just curious as to how QDM is more harmful to "sport hunting" than baiting is? That was your quote on the "change to opener" thread?

?

[Big Dave2]

I do not use scents, pretty much a gimmick to me.

But, should using scent be outlawed? I don't bait either.

But calling a deer in by tricking them is much different than placing food, How so?

more than likely something that isn't readily available or found naturally there. Corn is pretty readily available in my area. Most food plots in the northern region probably represent items that would not naturally be available to the deer too, should they be outlawed?

Deer eat every day, deer do not respond to calls all the time or ever and much differently at different times of the year. So to me they are much different. Not to me.

Baiting and food plots are also different because of how deer are to feed at them. Deer naturally do not eat shoulder to shoulder, even under a natural food source like apples or acorns, so the risk of disease transfer is much greater when they are eating off a pile of corn or apples.

I have stated before that to me the argument of disease control is completely irrelevant until ALL recreational feeding is also outlawed. It just doesn't make sense to allow one and not the other if the real concern is disease control.

When deer populations are too high I would have zero problems with opening up restrictions, such as baiting, scopes on muzzleloaders etc. That is a DNR problem with not being flexible, but that also reflects on the hunters, not wanting anything to change. There is no reason that dates and laws cannot change periodically, as we need to change the amount of deer taken or which deer need to be taken(more does and less bucks.)

Evidently Deer populations in some regions of the state ARE too high. Why else is it that in some areas one person can get up to 5 tags? Why not just allow baiting if you think it would be so effective in taking deer?

By the way, lots of families enjoying more time in the field in Wisconsin with hunting season over Thankgiving, 2 weekends and 2 days during the week in which kids in school can get out and enjoy the outdoors vs our early november gun season in which most kids can only get out on the weekends.

That's a different argument, in a different thread.

I believe strongly in doing whatever it takes to ensure the future of hunting for the following generations. Keeping an open mind, being flexible, and adapting to the changing world is our only chance.

Time to get out and try and top off the freezer, does best look out. Good luck to all the late season hunters.

Mike

[john skarie]

Bottom line is many people don't care how challenging it is to hunt.

They want to shoot a deer to make jerky, sticks and steaks.

Judging others because they don't care to hunt like you do is not doing the future of hunting any good.

JS

[00rowe]

The argument for moving the season opener was QDM, letting more bucks get through the peak breeding season when they are most vulnerable, then your response was that was going to ruin sport hunting forever. I thought you were pro baiting becuase of the way you said it took more work to bait than to walk to the same box stand.

If you think you can get more deer to respond to calls or scents than baiting, you're either a champion deer caller or have no idea of what deer like to eat. Thats the reason I think they are so different.

If you have the flu, I won't catch it from you across the field, however if we are sitting at the same table I would be much more likely to get it, a couple acre food plot is much different than a single pile of corn or apples. Also food plots offer a source of nutrition for a longer period of time than someone who puts out a few pails of corn the week before gun season. Some of us also do not even hunt over our food plots, they are strictly to supplement a deers diet, and to keep more deer on or near properties that we hunt. Baiting is usually for hunting.

Different thread, different argument, all boils down to what we feel is best for hunting's present and future. I believe all your arguments are becuase you don't want change, it's "good enough" the way it is. While I feel it is good, but can be improved, let's not wait until things worsen and be proactive. I'd like to think we can look at our past generations mistakes and learn from them.

I'll bow out of this argument, but never doubt my support of hunting.

Mike

[LightningBG]

I'm still wondering if people think that all the baiters in WI are lazy slobs, or if a baiter is only lazy if he were to cross the border?

[Jameson]

I'm still wondering if people think that all the baiters in WI are lazy slobs...?

Yes.

As someone who has baited deer in WI, planted food plots in MN, and now mostly hunts public land in MN, Yes I do think baiting is the lazy way. Is sitting in the same box stand lazy? No, it's smart, because that person did their work to identify where a good deer spot is. Baiters just bring the deer to where they want them, not go looking for where the deer want to be. As for the food plotters vs baiters that is another conversation that I don't feel like wasting my time on....

Fire away!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[john skarie]

I suppose people could say buying food at the grocery store or meat market is lazy too. Grow and kill your own or else you are a lazy slob.

Having different reasons for hunting doesn't make one hunter superior to another. Do what you like to do and live and let live.

I suppose we could say any fishermen who use live bait are lazy as well.

Lots of judging going on here, seems a little petty.

JS

[Big Dave2]

As someone who has baited deer in WI, planted food plots in MN, and now mostly hunts public land in MN, Yes I do think baiting is the lazy way. Is sitting in the same box stand lazy? No, it's smart, because that person did their work to identify where a good deer spot is. Baiters just bring the deer to where they want them, not go looking for where the deer want to be. As for the food plotters vs baiters that is another conversation that I don't feel like wasting my time on....

Fire away!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So I don't have to identify a good deer spot if I were to just bait them? If I dump a pile of corn in my back yard in the middle of town the deer will come to me? All this time I could have just been hunting out my kitchen window!

[jay83196]

Speaking of smart..... some would say bringing baiting a deer to bring it closer would be smart, if someone is out for just shooting a deer doesn't have a lot of time to hunt ( perhaps they work a lot at job and don't get much time) what you call lazy another could call smart, making less work isn't necessarily lazy. It's been brought up a lot about ethical hunting some of you guys talking about ethics, I seriously don't see how all the equipment we use contributes to ethical, or improved sportsmanship. We get longer more difficult shots possible and more comfort for us but I don't see that shooting a deer 300 yds away is very sporting, build a bow go stalk a deer then talk ethics. I have every gadget in the book, and at times hunt from a heated palace of a stand but I won't be a hypocrite and preach ethics or judge others because I don't agree or like a specific practice they agree with or do. Regarding the legal side, we shouldn't break the law, but all laws don't always make sense or make it wrong just makes it illegal...

[Big Dave2]

The argument for moving the season opener was QDM, letting more bucks get through the peak breeding season when they are most vulnerable, then your response was that was going to ruin sport hunting forever. I thought you were pro baiting becuase of the way you said it took more work to bait than to walk to the same box stand.

All of these measures you are discussing are for one thing and one thing only, growing deer antlers. Sorry, but I am just not as into antler size as you are. QDM has nothing to do with "quality" deer, it has all to do with "quality" antlers.

If you think you can get more deer to respond to calls or scents than baiting, you're either a champion deer caller or have no idea of what deer like to eat. Thats the reason I think they are so different.

I don't care which one works better than the other, the point is that they both will work at times and they are similar tactics in my book.

If you have the flu, I won't catch it from you across the field, however if we are sitting at the same table I would be much more likely to get it, a couple acre food plot is much different than a single pile of corn or apples.

I have stated my opinion regarding this argument. HOGWASH unless you outlaw ALL recreational deer feeding.

Also food plots offer a source of nutrition for a longer period of time than someone who puts out a few pails of corn the week before gun season. Some of us also do not even hunt over our food plots, they are strictly to supplement a deers diet, and to keep more deer on or near properties that we hunt. Baiting is usually for hunting.

Not necessarily. What's to keep a farmer from leaving in a dozen rows of corn on the edge of his field until his hunt is over and then getting out the corn picker and harvesting it? By the same token, there could also be people with corn feeders who keep them stocked year round. I know people who feed deer all year long but have to stop feeding them during the hunting season so they can hunt thier own land.

Different thread, different argument, all boils down to what we feel is best for hunting's present and future. I believe all your arguments are becuase you don't want change, it's "good enough" the way it is. While I feel it is good, but can be improved, let's not wait until things worsen and be proactive. I'd like to think we can look at our past generations mistakes and learn from them.

Why would the state of deer hunting worsen? It has been improving since I was a kid, there have never been so many deer in this state as there are now. What more do you want? Why can't anyone ever just be satisfied?

I'll bow out of this argument, but never doubt my support of hunting.

Mike

I don't doubt your love and support for hunting the way you want it to be but I do question your support for the heritage of hunting, the way it was meant to be.

[LightningBG]

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[TRZ II]

For those of you who don't know why baiting is not good for deer hunting and the health of the heard. Read this......[Note from admin: Your post has been edited. Please read forum policy before posting again. Thank you.]

http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/volunteer/sepoct08/bait.html

[jay83196]

Well after having two people read it to me, nothing new here I don't think most disagrees with much of it EXCEPT... Like somebody else pointed out if recreational feeding isn't banned the argument for not spreading disease it just plain ignorant! As well as I find it curious that in the article it reads WI didn't show an increase in deer harvested from baiting (so if it doesn't significantly help what's the issue)...I understand the legal aspect and that some people feel its not ethical to bait, and I agree but so is a lot of other things many hunters do (scents, grunts, shooting 400 yards etc etc not much sporting about that stuff either). Baiting is illegal and I won't as long as it is but if it was legal I don't know if I would or not I don't think much difference in food plots, corn fields etc. But where legal I would say if you don't approve then shut up and just don't do it. Why people need to impose their beliefs on other people Ill never understand...

[Big Dave2]

For those of you who don't know why baiting is not good for deer hunting and the health of the heard. Read this, or have someone read it to you.......

http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/volunteer/sepoct08/bait.html

I've read that article. Just the same old tired reasons that I have already commented on above.

Disease prevention=HOGWASH

Fair Chase=HOGWASH

Any new reasons?

[john skarie]

Considering the fact that baiting doesn't take place all winter long like people who feed deer in their back yards, maybe the concern for the spread of disease is a little mis-placed here?

The idea that getting deer to concentrate on feeding in food plots doesn't spread disease is rather ridiculous as well.

JS

[jay83196]

Perhaps we should ban mineral licks and food plots, these deer look close enough to swap spit here and thats all there is here.

[DaveT]

I think all methods of killing deer should be legal. If it's legal to leave standing beans in your field, it should be legal for me to spotlight them from the warm cab of my pickup at 2 in the morning. Who are you to tell me that your way is better than mine? You self righteous guys make me sick. It takes a lot of work to drive them roads all night long, not to mention the added expense of gas at 3.50 a gallon, coffee, snacks, etc. I wish all you people would stop ruining the great deer hunting heritage we have here and let me hunt the way I want to.