APR's don't work 100%

[Jameson]

Identifying a doe in an APR area is no different than identifying a spike buck in a lotto area,..

Only that they are opposites.

In a lotto area hunting for bucks we make sure it has a rack. We assume each deer is a doe, until we see a rack. If someone in a lotto area has a doe tag, it means they also have a buck tag so their are no illegal deer. In APR areas people doe hunting are trying to make sure it doesn't have a small rack. They should assume each deer is an off-limits APR buck until they see that it is not. Now they have to hope to not miss seeing a 4" spike, where as the lotto hunters need to see a 4" spike. Same, just opposite. Than if the APR hunter screws up their is no tag to cover his behind.

[TruthWalleyes]

I have a really hard time shooting does...Every year i have at least two bonus tags, but most of the does i am unable to get a 100% clear look to see that there isn't a 4" spike hiding behind an ear...Moral of the story, DON'T SHOOT UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOUR SHOOTING AT... Sucks sometimes, but you don't leave any lay that way.

I think it is harder to identfy a legal doe than a legal buck in APR zones, So it can and does make things difficult.

[tengy]

i was down in the apr zone this weekend and did not like what i see. its good to see old and young harvest a deer of their choice, but getting back to camp (whitewater area) and seeing lots of does and doe fawns taken kind of hurt. i mean it was like 6 does to 1 legal buck taken. if anything i thinks its gonna hurt the population in the long run. just my 2 cents.

[wh1stler]

it's not altogether different than duck hunting. when i go, i want to shoot ducks and eat them. i could care less about mounting them. moreover, duck hunting is a tremendous amount of work.

that doesn't justify me shooting the only two ducks that came into my spread if they are both pintails. or shooting four hen mallards. or whatever.

now there might be a scientific/biological basis for not shooting that combination of birds that may or may not be present with APRs but that doesn't mean those rules are less 'valid'. they are the rules and should be followed as such. if you don't know...don't shoot.

[Getanet]

I’ve gone round and round with enough guys here on APR that my sanity won’t allow me to get involved in another extended thread. For what it’s worth, I feel Zone 3’s APR should run its course and then be assessed accordingly for that zone only. But personally I don’t like the idea of APRs and I hope the regulation doesn’t spread (note I said regulations. If you want to make your own choice to only shoot 8pt or bigger that’s fine with me). I’ll make a few points here and then move on:

1)Identifying your Target.

You don’t need to know exactly how many points a buck has in order to determine if you have a good, safe shot. Other regulations people sight for other animals such as ducks, pheasants, etc. are only made to identify between male and female in the short time a hunter has to make a decision to shoot or not. We already have that with the 3” rule to identify between a buck or doe. Yes, you should know if you’re shooting at a buck or doe, but it’s ridiculous to say you don’t know what you’re shooting at or aren’t making a good shot if you can’t say with certainty whether it was an 8-point, 10-point or perhaps even a 7-point.

2)Just shoot a doe.

Everyone needs to realize your hunting situation isn’t the same as the next guys. Everyone should be capable of making their own decision based on their own situation. For some, seeing 20+deer in a weekend is typical. For others, seeing just one deer a season is the norm. Some guys hunt bow, rifle and muzzy seasons while others are lucky if they can hunt a day or two. If you’re someone that gets to hunt as much as you want and can be picky, consider how fortunate you are, not how slighted you are.

3)The regulations are designed for meat hunters.

No they’re not. The rules themselves don’t favor anyone and provide as close to a neutral playing field as possible. They allow you to make your own decision on shooting as big or small of a buck as you’re lucky enough to see.

Also, as others have pointed out, for each action there is a reaction. More does/fawns shot, access to private land harder to come by, leases on private land going to the highest bidder, etc. are all potential issues with APRs. In closing, making regulations to satisfy one segment of hunters set a bad precedent in my opinion and I hope those that are for APRs will remember that if someday down the road if people want to make their idea of a harvestable buck no longer legal. Good luck the rest of the season!

[96trigger]

Haven't noticed a lot of difference this year. yes, I have to look closer at deer and yesterday I passed up a pretty nice 6 pointer, but big deal, I've also been passing up small 8's. I thought I'd be seeing more 2.5 year old deer this year, and maybe I am, but it doesn't seem like I'm seeing the deer I have in the past. However, 40 mph wind gusts and drought conditions probably aren't helping me where I am at.

I would love to see there be a fine for mistaken deer. I would have no problem paying an extra $50-$75 dollars to the DNR if I mistakenly shoot a small buck thinking its a doe. It would also make me feel like a lot less of a criminal if I knew there was just a fine involved. I know the DNR has been giving out warnings and taking the deer, but its still not a good situation.

I still like the APR regulations. It hasn't really changed the way anybody in our party hunts. There are a few old timers that grumbled about having to pass up some little bucks, but it was very minor.

You don't need an expensive pair of binoculars to identify deer. I have a $25 pair from fleet farm that do a good enough job of determining whether or not a deer has a spike or not. No, I can't count its eyelashes, but I can see if it is bald or not.

[Bear55]

If someone in a lotto area has a doe tag, it means they also have a buck tag so their are no illegal deer.

True but only if you win a doe permit in the lotto, the area I hunt gives out 100 doe tags for 6000 hunters, it's not that way everywhere but a great majority of the hunters in lotto areas need to know what they are shooting. The same should apply to the SE.

[chocolab]

hey eye,

all im saying is it should be up to the individual person. i have harvested some nice bucks before the APR was put into place and have let many young ones walk, and i hunt on public land.

if i let a young one walk and someone takes him out, its up to them if they want to use their tag for a spike or not, i wont hold it against them. what if one day four on one side is no longer good enough and is moved to 5 or 6 on one side. not saying it will happen, but slippery slope my friend. just food for thought.

[HandGunner]

I feel like since the APR last year it was said a survey conducted more ppl wanted more bigger deer. I say hahaha in this day and age no, PUBLIC land yes there are big boys out there a few get taken every year just a few its all dumb luck were we are its all for meat and food, too hard to chase and study trophys on public land I can say if you want trophys stop hunting PUBLIC land and go to a neighboring PRIVATE land and ask to hunt there thats were all the trophys hideout, only way to find and chase trophys and trophys only is on PRIVATE land sure you can on publick land but its twice the work and LUCK plays a big role. I feel that was the reason for the APR was that some werent satisfied with hunting PUBLIC land

[Neighbor_guy]

Just to be that guy.... Bring a hammer, problem solved.

IMO this is why they are trying APR in a shotgun zone. In theory, you should be taking closer shots with a shotgun and have a better chance at identifying your target. You chose to hunt in that area, there are others that are more liberal with what you can and cannot shoot. If that means passing on does because you can not identify them as such, then you pass. Its just part of the game.

What I do not agree with and never will is shoot first, oops, just leave it to rot. There are ways of dealing with mistakes, letting it go to waste is not one of them.

[LightningBG]

A couple years ago I was out hunting with some grizzled hunting veterans. We're talking 30+ years of hunting bear, deer, elk, moose. One of them shot a spike, in an antlerless only early hunt. First thing we did was call the DNR (WI). The CO met us a couple hours later, even came out by boat to an island we were hunting in Lake Michigan. He took the deer, said it happens all the time, thanks for calling, see ya later.

Even the best hunters in the world can make mistakes, whether its branches playing tricks on ya, weird angle of the deer, etc. It happens. Hopefully people will just call, so the meat can go to someone and not let it rot. If the penalties are too harsh for making an honest mistake, people will start to hide their mistake, leading to more waste.

[tunrevir]

The way I see it, is there is way to much debate on this thread. If you hunt an APR area, YOU, need to know that it is a legal deer for the area you are hunting BEFORE you shoot. In otherwords, identify your target and pull the trigger without doubt. If you don't like the rules, or are fearful of shooting something illegally, then hunt an area that has no APRs in place. Don't bellyache here about, woulda, coulda, shoulda's. You have choices and first and foremost is to hunt in an APR zone or not. People are going to make mistakes on occassion let's not beat this to death. If you are a deer biologist and have sound evidence to the pros or cons then speak up otherwise let the DNR do their job.

Tunrevir~

[Jimmy from Cottage Grove]

I have hunted zone 3 for the past 20 years on private property. I believe this is the best thing that ever happened down there. Zone 3 has probably the most densest population of deer in the state. There are plenty of antlerless deer. Seeing 30 deer a day is not uncommon. If you are just a meat hunter then zone 3 is like paradise. I even feel safer in the wood knowing guys aren't doing drives through the woods firing shots at flags anymore. Yeah it cost me a few small eight pointers last year that were tough to identify, but one of them could have been the nice one I shot with the bow on friday. I have noticed a huge difference this year during the bow season of shooter bucks. If I had it my way I would push the gun season back two weeks out of the rut. Minnesota is one of the few states that allows you to firearm hunt peak rut.

[MJ1657]

I was sitting in my stand last night thinking how nice it has been that there has not been any apr arguing on the board this year.

So much for that..............

[mrklean]

mj just wait till the anti spearing threads go up

I think it will be very interesting to see what comes of the study, i enjoy meat, but would also like to see better quality deer in MN, you look at the surrounding states like Wisconsin, Iowa even the Dakotas and see the deer they kick out and its impressive. But you also see what the trophy craze has done to those states, Iowa is what almost $600 now for a non-res tag and its every other year? Its almost impossible to just ask to hunt peoples land anymore with out having to pay them a good chunk of money, or having your private land taken away from you because someone wants to pay more.

[96trigger]

Last night I snuck up on a deer as I was walking out, got it in my scope but couldn't tell for sure if it was a little buck or a doe. I didn't shoot. Surprisingly, I don't feel bad about it. This morning, a small buck came in, it was the only deer I saw. Don't feel bad about that either, it was a great morning to be out. Normally I shoot 2 deer a year. This year, I have shot 0 so far. Funny I'm not dead yet because I haven't been able to shoot at every deer I see. I even have 2 management tags not getting used. I have only seen about a dozen deer so far this year, but I'm still hoping for that lone doe or that big bruiser. I guess I'll just have to wait, if it happens, it happens. I'm not going to throw a pitty party because I never got a deer in my freezer. Instead, I think I'll make goose sausage.

[Musky Buck]

I am still confused as to the out of the rut hunts these other states do, I think Iowa is about it. 95% of the deer hunting shows I see are rut hunts correct ? It wouldn't in my mind change much here, people would still find tags to fill buck 1, food sources would be jackpots especially the further off the road they are, some peoples hunting land would turn into firewood as once the snow hits the deer are gone, they'd already be going into a winter type pattern grouping up more and more especially in deeper snow/cold years, more propane tanks/heaters would be sold, we'd still have nearly 500,000 guns lumped into 9 or 16 day seasons, I think bow hunters with over 100 days possible in the field plus acorn hunts have it decent enough in easy temperature conditions for the first 2 months. It isn't just the rifle crowd ruining the bow hunters rut, the deer have always gradually become more nocturnal after Nov. 1st for many moons, the last 5 years or so we are not seeing anything on our cams or in person the week prior to rifle season in the daylight the way it is. No APR's don't work 100%, but if you can get enough area landowners not shooting the 1.5 year old bucks you'll see a difference. They don't evaporate. They just need to shed a rack or two.

[HandGunner]

were I am I feel if the land was like before were most of the private land was public land there would be more trophys but now since half the place is sold to ppl and were left in a smaller area to hunt public land all the bigger bucks for sure are hiding out in private land, not all of us can afford to go out and miss a chance at taking a deer for food and not all of us can afford to buy our own land and such. Thats the reason I feel like we have APR is because the public land hunters want the bigger trophys but they are too busy hiding out in private land, like i said we have trophys in the woods its all about being in the right place at the right time. DUMB LUCK. a spike shot does not mean a deer lost forever we seem to all forget that each year the deer population catches up because of breeding so that one deer gone can be one deer reborn or 2 or 3 or 4 how ever many, and also note that not everyones successful every year, some are in good spots some are in bad spots, our area is more meat based not trophy based area some do try and chase the trophys and sometimes those trophys get sidetracted and forget that today he wasnt supose to be on that path and was supose to hide out, I have not yet seen one but I do know that some trophys and some typical sized bucks are just too darn smart to even give you a chance they are just become too smart over the years living in public land

[eyedawg]

Well said musky buck. I think the dnr should try the rest of the state with the Apr and see what happens at least a 3 yr study.

[96trigger]

I have been calling aggressively for the last week while bow hunting and firearm. Every buck that has come in has come into calling and rattling, every one was immature. They are far and away the DUMBEST class of deer out there and the easiest prey for hunters. I am hunting all private land and have not seen the deer. I can also say that I had the deer on cameras all fall, corn got picked, and the deer moved out. Two bluffs away, my brother is hunting and he has seen double digit deer every time he has been out. We had a nice buck on camera all fall where I hunt, and that thing completely moved out and he ended up shooting it almost two miles from where it was spending its summer and early fall. Point being, public or private, the deer are in pockets right now, it seems like feast or famine, APR or not.

[HandGunner]

sounds like from reading post and other threads alot of ppl take pride in not shooting spikes and honoring it. seems like some really do believe this and stick to it but some need to realize others just want to go hunt and want the meat. seen a fair amount of spikes and bucks under 8 points taken and posted up and they are either kids teens or adults, so tells me not everyone believes that spikes and small bucks should not be shot, it gets repeated alot over and over about how strongly ppl disagree or dislike the fact that spikes or small bucks get taken.

[hockeybc69]

There isnt a topic on the planet that gets 100% support. So APR isnt going to be any different.

[shortfatguy]

I definitely support having an APR. For a few years now I have imposed on myself. and even more than that I choose not to shoot any basket racks. What I was getting at is it is possible to be responsible and use care and still not see that a deer has spikes on it when you shoot it. Anyone who doesnt agree isn't being very honest with themselves.

[hockeybc69]

Agreed 100%. Mistakes happen.

But you cant blame the mistake on the fact you dont own expensive optics.....

[shortfatguy]

I wasn't trying to blame it on the lack of expensive optics. It seemed to me that some on here said there was no excuse for shooting a spike thinking it was a doe. Just using the optics as an example of reasons someone might miss the spikes. What about people who hunt with open sights?