Regulation ?

[mntatonka]

Here's how I understand it.

You have a 1 deer (either sex) bag limit in an HC area. In other words, your main license tag is your ONLY tag in that area. So if you register a doe in that area, you cannot shoot a buck that year. However, if you shoot a buck in an area that's not HC, you can not harvest anything in an HC area after that.

Here's my reasoning:

Your main license, if you're in an HC area, is a single either sex tag, much like the license of everyone that's not in a lottery area. So, if you register a buck (or doe on your main license tag) in an intensive harvest or managed area, you must use your main tag, therefore using your only tag for an HC area.

Also, in the situation between archery and firearms and muzzleloader seasons. If you harvest a deer at all during the archery season in an HC area (or any area using your main license tag), you are done hunting in all HC areas for the year, regardless of what you tagged. Obviously the same thing would extrapolate out to firearms season ending your muzzleloader season.

Basically, since in an HC area your only tag is your main license tag, if you harvest any deer and register it from an HC area, because it has to be on your main tag, you cannot harvest a buck in any other area in that same season. However, as an example, if you register a doe in archery season in an HC area, you can still harvest and register a buck in a managed or intensive area during firearms or muzzleloader.

It's a complicated and unnecessary rule change that's not likely to last after this year, since the regional wildlife managers in the state wanted nothing to do with this change.

[Jameson]

Welcome to the forums mntatonka.

...since the regional wildlife managers in the state wanted nothing to do with this change.

Can you explain why they would be against it? By doing away with the lottery in many areas I figured it simplified things.

[mntatonka]

Quote:

Can you explain why they would be against it? By doing away with the lottery in many areas I figured it simplified things.

Simplified? It's a complicated rule, as shown by the many questions about it. The lottery system was simple, and works very well in managing populations. Having an either sex tag in an underpopulated area makes it harder for the wildlife managers to manage a population

[Jameson]

Everything new is going to have questions asked about it. It doesn't mean it's complicated, just new.

I would think the more tools the wildlife managers have at their disposal the better they could do their work. Lottery is still around, the SW corner of the state is still lottery. We still have managed and intensive areas. Some areas can't withstand the pressure that a 'managed' designation allows, but can take a little more than the 'lottery' designation allows. So, add another tool to the toolbag of the wildlife managers to allow for better managing of the wildlife. If an area is so underpopulated they can still use lottery, or bring back youth only from last year. Sorry, I'm just having a hard time wrapping my head around why someone would be against this change, other than change sucks.

Sorry for arguing with new guy. It's just that I really like this change.

[mntatonka]

All I know is that most of the wildlife managers aren't in favor of this type of limit. It makes their jobs harder for whatever reason, and those are the guys I trust to manage the herds, not the big guys in the state that make these (and other) changes without actually listening to their area wildlife managers.

[Jameson]

Fair enough. It sounds like the wildlife manager you have talked to wanted tighter limits on the deer in their area. They would have liked to still have lottery, but had HC pushed down their throat. That doesn't mean they are against HC, just didn't want it in their area at this time. Very understandable.

Somewhere Lou Cornicella (sp?) our deer manager has displayed on the web the anticipated deer killed per 100 hunters for each designation. If I see that again I'll try to link to it, and we shall see at the end of the year how close the estimates were. The jump from lottery to HC isn't expected to be much, but we have all been wrong before.

edit:

Hunters in about 30 percent of the state's 127 deer permit areas will notice big changes, too. Those permit areas will be called "hunter's choice" areas and hunters will be able to shoot one deer of either sex.

"Folks need to think about it as a lottery area with no lottery," he said. "It's just one deer per year."

The designation fits in between lottery areas - where hunters shoot 10 to 15 antlerless deer per 100 hunters - and managed areas - where hunters shoot 20 to 23 antlerless deer per 100 hunters.

"We think it's going to fall right between lottery and managed in terms of antlerless deer harvest rates per 100 people," Cornicelli said.

The hunter's choice designation could eventually apply to more permit areas in the state, though there are some areas where it probably never will apply. Those include permit areas in the southwestern part of the state, and some areas with especially high deer densities.

[ANYFISH2]

mntatonka, I may be clearly off base but isn't it the area managers of the permit areas that suggest the designation of each permit zone?

I think most of the HC areas are areas that have had nearly enough doe permits the past few seasons that almost all of the applicant recieved a doe permit anyway.

Hunters choice regs are the same as lottery areas except everyone get a doe permit, that is why some of us feel it is simple and not confusing, basically same rules apply as before in lottery area's.

Welcome to HSO!

[mntatonka]

mntatonka, I may be clearly off base but isn't it the area managers of the permit areas that suggest the designation of each permit zone?

I think most of the HC areas are areas that have had nearly enough doe permits the past few seasons that almost all of the applicant recieved a doe permit anyway.

Hunters choice regs are the same as lottery areas except everyone get a doe permit, that is why some of us feel it is simple and not confusing, basically same rules apply as before in lottery area's.

Welcome to HSO!

The wildlife managers put recommendations in to the big game office, but that doesn't mean they actually get listened to.

[bowhunternw]

In the HC zone you can use your main license only. So if you used your main tag bow hunting you are done. However you could still shoot a doe in a managed or intensive area (with bonus tags). That is my take anyhow.

[deerminator]

"Some areas can't withstand the pressure that a 'managed' designation allows, but can take a little more than the 'lottery' designation allows."

I would theorize the difference in overall kill wouldn't be much between an area that was lottery going to HC or managed. Anecdotal evidence in my lottery permit area would suggest many guys buy permits for their wives, mothers and kids to get the number of deer they want anyway. Many consider it similar to party hunting even if the permit holder isn't with them and though they know it's poaching, view it similar to speeding when breaking the law. Again, this is a theory based on observation in my permit area. It would be interesting to see if the harvest actually does go up and how dramatically when an area switches from lottery to HC (can check after this year) or managed (will try to do some digging tonight or sometime this week).

[wannafish2]

I have the same issue and how I understand it is:

Archery - one either sex deer. If you hunt your archery deer in a CHOICE area, that area is done for the year. So you cannot gun hunt there at all.

But, you can gun hunt in another area MANAGED or INTENSIVE until you fill the total tags...but only 1 buck per year total per hunter regardless of the weapon used.

So, to answer your question about can you shoot your buck by gun in a INTENSIVE/MANAGED area and then go into a CHOICE area and take a doe by archery, the answer is YES you can. You can take 1 doe to fill your archery tag.

My situation is the reverse...I am archery hunting in an intensive area and will gun hunt in a choice area. Either way, I hope to get 1 buck and 1 doe, but I will take 2 does (1 in each area) if I have the chance. I don't think I could eat more than that.

Hope this helps.

SHOOT STRAIGHT AND EAT GREAT everybody! Good luck!

[bearslayer]

WannaFish or anyone who knows,

If you were to shoot a deer in a HC area with a bow, I realize you would be using your main archery tag and thus using your archery buck tag for the entire season. You would still have bonus tags, but only for anterless deer in managed or intensive areas.

Question I have, couldn't you still gun hunt in the HC area by party hunting? You would have to buy a valid gun license to be in the field, but you wouldn't be able to tag a deer with your license, as you have already tagged your 1 deer in the HC area from arhcery. You would have to use someone elses tag for your deer if you shoot 1.

Just want to clarify, because this is a situation I have the possiblity of facing this year.

Thanks

[mntatonka]

So, to answer your question about can you shoot your buck by gun in a INTENSIVE/MANAGED area and then go into a CHOICE area and take a doe by archery, the answer is YES you can. You can take 1 doe to fill your archery tag.

Incorrect. If you harvest a buck in ANY area with any weapon, you've used your main tag (license tag). In which case, you can NOT harvest another deer of any sex in a Hunter's Choice area, because the only tag you have in an HC area is your main tag. Use it on a buck in an Intensive harvest area, and you've use your only tag for the HC area.

No matter what season you're hunting, your main tag is the same. For example, if you only hunt in a Hunters Choice area, the system will let you buy an archery, firearms, and muzzleloader license, but you still only have one main tag (even though technically it gives you one with each license). If you use that main tag with any weapon anywhere in the state, that tag is used for all seasons.

I tell you what, I'll email Lou, since he doesn't seem to come on these forums anymore, and get an answer straight from the guy who wrote the regulations. He usually answers my emails.

edit: looks like Lou is out of the office for a week or so, so I'll see who else I can ask

[mntatonka]

WannaFish or anyone who knows,

If you were to shoot a deer in a HC area with a bow, I realize you would be using your main archery tag and thus using your archery buck tag for the entire season. You would still have bonus tags, but only for anterless deer in managed or intensive areas.

Question I have, couldn't you still gun hunt in the HC area by party hunting? You would have to buy a valid gun license to be in the field, but you wouldn't be able to tag a deer with your license, as you have already tagged your 1 deer in the HC area from arhcery. You would have to use someone elses tag for your deer if you shoot 1.

Just want to clarify, because this is a situation I have the possiblity of facing this year.

Thanks

You can party hunt for does only, but how many people are actually going to let you use their only buck tag for the year on a doe? I know I would, but I'm not your standard "oh my god look at the antlers on that thing" hunter.

[surewood]

HC- One either sex deer. Bonus tags are not valid. Shoot any sex deer there your main tag (Buck Tag) is gone for all areas.

Managed- Two deer. One bonus tag. So one buck/one doe or two does.

Intensive- Five deer. One buck/four does or five does.

So if you use your main tag in Intensive or Managed you can no longer hunt any HC area unless party hunting.

[Jameson]

So, to answer your question about can you shoot your buck by gun in a INTENSIVE/MANAGED area and then go into a CHOICE area and take a doe by archery, the answer is YES you can. You can take 1 doe to fill your archery tag.

mntatonka, since you're new here you may not realize that lc has commented on this several times in the past. When a person buys licenses for two season (gun, archery) they get two main tags. Both can be filled, but only one antlered buck per person per calendar year.

[bearslayer]

For gun season, if I had already used my archery main tag ( only tag for HC area) I believe I can still party hunt, and shoot either sex, as the other people in the partys tag is good for either, being a HC area. I would have to burn someone elses buck tag though, which I would only do for a trophy. I wouldn't waste their only tag on a doe, if they wanted to shoot a doe on their tag, that is their choice.

I am not out to shoot as many bucks as I can! We have an understanding in our camp that you are welcome to shoot whatever (bucks 8 or bigger) you want on your main tag, but if you are going to shoot another deer and burn someone elses tag, it better be going on the wall. Which would be fine under party hunting rules as I understand.

[mntatonka]

For gun season, if I had already used my archery main tag ( only tag for HC area) I believe I can still party hunt, and shoot either sex, as the other people in the partys tag is good for either, being a HC area. I would have to burn someone elses buck tag though, which I would only do for a trophy. I wouldn't waste their only tag on a doe, if they wanted to shoot a doe on their tag, that is their choice.

I am not out to shoot as many bucks as I can! We have an understanding in our camp that you are welcome to shoot whatever (bucks 8 or bigger) you want on your main tag, but if you are going to shoot another deer and burn someone elses tag, it better be going on the wall. Which would be fine under party hunting rules as I understand.

I'd have to double check, but didn't it go statewide starting last year that there is no longer party hunting for bucks? I know it did Zone 3 with the worthless APR's, but I was thinking that the cross tagging regulation went statewide.

edit: Just double checked, and cross tagging of bucks is legal everywhere EXCEPT Zone 3. That certainly makes a ton of sense, doesn't it? Pick on the Zone 3 hunters only

[mntatonka]

mntatonka, since you're new here you may not realize that lc has commented on this several times in the past. When a person buys licenses for two season (gun, archery) they get two main tags. Both can be filled, but only one antlered buck per person per calendar year.

actually, my post count may be low, but that doesn't mean I haven't followed this forum for the last couple years (or posted previously under different accounts that I've forgotten about).

The way the rules read is that you get one license tag (either sex, except in lottery areas), and any other deer must be tagged using Intensive harvest tags (bonus tags). If that law is different than the way it is read, it should be re-written to state that.

[Jameson]

What page of the regs say that? Or the actual law number thingy ma jiggy?

I think you'll find that the law you are talking about changed in about 2006.

I believe this thread from 2009 has lc telling us that we can now use more than one main tag per season. Not in lottery areas of course...

[mntatonka]

Ok, I've gotten a clarification from a couple of DNR workers in my area.

You can tag one deer in a Hunter's Choice area of either sex. If you tag a buck in any season, you cannot tag another buck anywhere else (obviously). If you tag a doe in any season with your license in an HC area, you can hunt in another area that is NOT Hunter's Choice or Lottery in another season and harvest a buck.

So I'll eat my words.

[snapcrackpop]

Here is my question:

If I shoot a doe in a lottery area with my archery license (have to tag it with my either sex tag), can I still shoot a buck in an intensive harvest area during the firearms season?

Could I still shoot a buck in an intensive harvest area with the bow?

[mrklean]

Yes you can still shoot a buck with a gun in intensive, you could not shoot any other deer with your archery license except does in bonus zones, 4 in intensive area or 1 in managed with bonus tags.

[Jameson]

I agree with mrkleen. If you are confused here is another way to word the answers.

Here is my question:

If I shoot a doe in a lottery area with my archery license (have to tag it with my either sex tag), can I still shoot a buck in an intensive harvest area during the firearms season?

[snapcrackpop]

Thanks guys. It is hard to answer that question using the book. Even a game warden didn't know...