Some bucks just don't have it?!?!

[slimngrizzly]

As an avid shed hunter and and obsessed deer "watcher" its always fascinated me how some of the deer you predict will grow a bunch the next year often dont! Also some of the bucks whom seem to have limited potential often blossum into something unexpected!

I had pics of this buck last year on my farm. Just , i assume, a 2 year old 4x4 with some nice beading on the bases and dagger browtines (Hes just about 105" here). I figured hed grow into a nice looking buck with above average brows....

Well now I got these pics the other day which HAVE to be him. He didn't do anything!!! What a dissapointment! Hes maybe got 2 inches on last year!

Why do you think it is that some deer show such signifigant growth from year to year and others stall? I guess to me its obvious that its genetic but I suppose theres always other possibilities.

I was wondering... everyone always talks about lots of rain means more lush vegetation etc. etc.... but do you ever think deer are like humans where not all of them "eat healthy"? Just because its green does not mean its nutrient rich. Maybe some deer have a "sweet tooth" and prefer a food source that is tasty but not very beneficial to them. If this is true do you suppose it could make enough of a difference in a deers chosen diet to actually impact the size of his anters?

Interesting? We can spend all the time and money to provide deer with what they might NEED... but thats not to say they're all going to WANT it?!?!

Sorry... im just bored at work wishing all the bucks would pack on 40+ inches a year!.... and wondering kinda why one does't when the one next to him does?

[hockeybc69]

Do you have pics of him from last year after he shed his velvet?

Lots of growing time left this year.

[B. Amish]

yup, some deer just ain't got what it takes to grow huge. but, when he's 5.5 he'll still be thick and mature and probably top out at 140 and he'll be a fine specimen.

imo - he's about done growing this year. no bulbs at the ends of any tines.

[ERdeerhunter]

I would say it's just their genetics. Just like many teenage boys dream of becoming professional athletes. Put your time in the weight room, work you butt off but face it, some guys are just destined to stay 5 foot 6 and 160# dripping wet.

[sticknstring]

Agreed. The scorer who measured my deer last year was telling me about the 4 sets of sheds he has from a buck that all measure within 3" of one another. I've seen the pictures - pretty remarkable. He's since found the 5th set I believe but I'm not sure how they scored.

[slimngrizzly]

Quote:

yup, some deer just ain't got what it takes to grow huge. but, when he's 5.5 he'll still be thick and mature and probably top out at 140 and he'll be a fine specimen.

I hope he makes it that long! Maybe he's just a late bloomer. I suppose he could make his big jump this next year.

Quote:

Do you have pics of him from last year after he shed his velvet?

Ya I got a bunch of him, and we found his sheds. He didn't do much more than an inch or so more on his beams and 3's.

oh well, at least he's not the only fish in the sea!

[Bear55]

Probably just a genetic thing, it seems like deer can blow up or stay close to the same as the year before for all kinds of reasons.

This is much more true of bigwoods deer but the younger bucks can put a lot of energy into growing their body the first few years of life and their racks don't show all that much.

I think he might have put on more than 2-3 inches this year but it is hard to day for sure.

[Whoknows]

IMO and it might be just be the photos, but if that is the same animal. His antlers are significantly larger than last year. Much larger than just 2 inches.

[Bear55]

Lots of growing time left this year.

I don't think there is much time left, you will start to see the velvet tighten up over the next month and then it's time for the bucks to shed their velvet. Of course some bucks will still grow a little into Aug but things are slowing down this time of year.

[HooknHorns]

I think youll see a bigger jump next year if he makes it. Theres definitly more mass and beam length. Id say its more than a couple inches.

On the same subject a buddy of mine shot an eight last season and had previous sheds. He was a little taken when it measured smaller than the sheds. Now I know when they get a certain age they will decline, but this was a 3 1/2 year old. I do agree that alot of bucks will not see 160 gross even let go pass their prime.

[slimngrizzly]

I firmly believe that almost every buck, whether it be a buck that will peak at 140 or 190, will typicaly put on thier largest percentage of growth from 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 years old.

I guess you guys are probably right though about this deer. He maybe is a little better than last year... in fact he could grow a bit more in just the 6 days difference in pics from year to year. Still disappointing though... i was hoping he had the framework to be a 125-130 this year for sure. I dont think thats going to happen?!?!

Its ok, hes probably just earned another free pass from this guy Be a great first buck for sweety! of course, she thinks shes gonna get one of the big ones! Probably will too!

[Bear55]

I agree slim, I usually see the biggest jump from 2 to 3.

[HooknHorns]

Wouldn't you think the biggest jump would be its first rack? Going from 0 or a spike to a 40-60 inch 6pt or 8pt. If a 110 would grow 40-60 inches would be phenominal. I dont know how they rate the growth, inches or by weight of rack percentage. I know inches are just for us.

[bety0108]

He might be maxed out alrady! My buck last year was the same size horn for 3 years. I had him aged and it was determined he was 7.5 years old. Like you guys are saying the antlers only grew about 3 inches in 3 years or about 1/4 inch per point per year. He grew a little each year, but by the time he was 5.5 thats about all he had in him. Also i have seen several old bucks and it seems that they have the garbage stuff by the pedicals like in these photos, little stickers and stuff.

[matchset]

my two cents... yes some have it...this buck does not! if he's not putting on 15-25plus inches each year from 1-4 he's not going to be spectacular!

[Bear55]

Wouldn't you think the biggest jump would be its first rack? Going from 0 or a spike to a 40-60 inch 6pt or 8pt. If a 110 would grow 40-60 inches would be phenominal. I dont know how they rate the growth, inches or by weight of rack percentage. I know inches are just for us.

This is probably true but a lot of us don't pay much attention to the younger bucks. Plus it is pretty hard to identify a buck as they grow from a 1.5 to a 2.5.

[slimngrizzly]

Quote:

Wouldn't you think the biggest jump would be its first rack? Going from 0 or a spike to a 40-60 inch 6pt or 8pt. If a 110 would grow 40-60 inches would be phenominal. I dont know how they rate the growth, inches or by weight of rack percentage. I know inches are just for us.

It is impressive that a buck would put on 40-60 inches from a 110.... but I believe it happens a lot more than one might think. I think people would be suprized how many 150-160+ inch deer are only 3 1/2 years old!

[slimngrizzly]

Well I will post again here on my DUD BUCK thread. Its Kind of fun to look back a year ago at what people where assuming would happen...

WELL THE VERDICT IS IN... THIS BUCK DOES NOT "HAVE IT"!!!

4 1/2 now and down to a 3x4! Hes actually showing some interesting charachteristics with his age. I dont think he will score... anything, but sure has got some pipes for bases and some really cool character points as well as some fat brows. He will be on my hit list! Hes made it to that 4 year old mark making him a trophy in my book!

[Boar]

Yea time to take him outa the gene pool, cool piks an really interesting thread, thanks.

[matchset]

Thanks for the Update!

[certified jumbo]

Very good thread and cool pics!!! Still a dandy IMO.

Its interesting how some deer just don't grow like you think they should. Clearly in your area you have the potential of some big deer though.

I do beleive in some area's deer don't grow big antlers. Specifically, where I hunt we don't seem to grow massive racks. In the past 8 years we have hundreds of shed antlers, thousands of pictures, and have harvested about a dozen bucks between 4-6 years old. Like you we follow each buck from year to year collecting sheds and pictures, all that i've shared here. The biggest deer from our properties in terms of antler size we didn't shoot but we got his sheds as a 6 year old and he would have scored 150" with a 18 inch inside spread. All the bucks we shot reached maturity and scored between 120 - 145" with a minimum age of 4. So i don't think there is much more we can do. I'm not at all disappointed in the deer we harvest, they just don't grow massive racks.

Our area is the Lake superior basin so our soil consists 100% red clay. I think this maybe the biggest factor in antler growth. Anyone have any other thoughts?

[CANOPY SAM]

I don't really know very much about this stuff, but it seems like he's put a lot of energy into growing a lot of "junk" at his bases. Is it possible this is why he hasn't added much for additional tine length, points, or mass?

Perhaps there's something haywire with his early antler growth that's prohibiting normal development?

[matchset]

I'm not at all disappointed in the deer we harvest, they just don't grow massive racks.

Our area is the Lake superior basin so our soil consists 100% red clay. I think this maybe the biggest factor in antler growth. Anyone have any other thoughts?

i think its a big factor; coupled with available food! That area you describe is on the cusp of the Farm country. I know the bucks grow big north and south of you...but i think the soil has a lot to do with it! bucks lose a lot over the winters, and they must replenish rather than grow large headgear

[slimngrizzly]

I'm not at all disappointed in the deer we harvest, they just don't grow massive racks.

Our area is the Lake superior basin so our soil consists 100% red clay. I think this maybe the biggest factor in antler growth. Anyone have any other thoughts?

Yep! I also agree 100% with Matchset. I am on the fringe of where the state goes from flat, pure farm ground, to the start of the bush and lakes region. Because of the openness its tough for deer to survive (not get shot) but as far as nutrition, I think its the best in the Midwest or right up there! I dont think supplements are really even needed here but I do it for the cameras and for early spring right outta the winter when theyre bodies need it most. I wouldve argueed that the "big" bucks are everywhere but what youure saying makes perfect sense. I probably take for granted the power of the soil here!

Even with the soil, I find the "25-50-25" ratio to apply. 25% of the bucks are born duds... never going to be over that 130" mark even, still trophys, just not high scoring antlers. Another 25% have the potential to be the 160-170"+ mark and usually show this at or by age 3 1/2. These are ther deer that get shot at ex. 3 1/2 158" and you think WOW! WHAT IF HED A MADE IT! Then lastly is the 50% that are 130- 155" deer which are the average "peak" animals. Most of these look great at 3 years old but them never really put on the growth after that... they just kinda stall.

This is just how I have found it to be...

Interesting to thing about the red clay and such and the limitations it can cause on antler growth.

[Bear55]

When nutrition has a limiting factor then the age and genetics play a much bigger role. Where I hunt (norther itasca county) I have seen bucks from booner down to 100 inch racks on deer that dress out at 220+. Its crazy to see those kinds of swings in such a small area but it is what it is. The booners size deer are far more rare than the 100 inchers which sucks but what do you do. Winter can often play a bigger role up here too, if the bucks are run down it is pretty common to see a pole with some big bodied deer and tiny racks and 2-3 inch spikes on 1.5 year olds. Other years if we have an easy winter or a decent amount of rain for the rack growing season the spikers and fork horns can grow 10 to 15 inch "main beams" and the larger bucks get an extra 2-3 inches of tine growth.

Dispite my areas limitations I still like our genetics, aside from the top end or low end we shoot some nice bucks in the 125 to 150 range. Sometimes you never know when lightning will strike and you have a true giant working your area. Even in the best of soils and worst of them I think there is alwasy potential for a geneic anomaly, both good and bad.